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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    I guess you're only interested enough in this thread to dedicate 100% of your TreoCentral posts to it.
    Spoken like an internet post-king. How original.

    Repeatedly. We hear you. It seems that for your situation you have determined there's no other suitable replacement for push email. Noted. There are ample other viewpoints bouncing around here too, but yours is definitely perfect for you.
    Only in response to screeds.

    Back at you.

    Oops, look out! I think your push email is buzzing you!
    Tying up my BB with subscriptions to an internet forum for these types of purposes would be an excellent argument for why push email is unnecessary. Sorry to get your hopes up, but that was never the case with me.

    You win, King Kupe. Enjoy the spoils.

    Over. And out.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by bonzmccoy
    Over. And out.
    Yeah, right. See you soon.

    Shoo!
  3. joesheets's Avatar
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    #63  
    Thanks for the reply and info, however, my company requires the secure ID code as the password. The ID changes every 60 seconds, so I dont see a way to work with this. My company is VERY tight in this regard. They are considering supporting Treos in the near future. guess i'll just have to wait.

    joe
  4. #64  
    I am interested in clarity and credibility for evaluation purposes. If someone claims that they can improve productivity with push, I am all for learning how. Being in repsonsible charge of two organizations, I am all for improving productivity.

    I am looking for credible answers as to how one can use push in a productive manner where one can distinguish between an emergency and routine e-mail without drawing from their holsters and checking their screens. I wouldn't want people I am paying, to ignore an urgent communication, nor would I want them to be checking their PDA's every 5 minutes.

    One logical and credible answer is two maintain multiple accounts and only set up push on the emergency account. Makes perfect sense. They would immediately know the buzz is urgent and they'd whip out their communicators.

    For those who have promoted push as an answer on a single account, I am simply asking how this is done in a day and age when people get 100's of e-mails a day.

    During an 8 hour day....

    50 e-mails = @ 1 every 9.6 minutes
    100 e-mails = @ 1 every 4.8 minutes
    200 e-mails = @ 1 every 2.4 minutes
    300 e-mails = @ 1 every 1.2 minutes

    So if you one is justifying push as the solution to getting that life or business saving e-mail in an expedient manner, logic tells me that when the gadget buzzes, you gotta look at it to see if it's the critical e-mail.....and if I was getting buzzed at any level near what's in the table above, I couldn't get any work done. For me, having my train of thought and focus interrupted even every few minutes would be very unproductive not to mention extremely annoying to anyone with whom I am interacting.

    It would seem therefore, since no other explanation has been offered, that if I was to consider push throughout my two organizations, multiple accounts appears to be the only viable solution. The question then becomes weighing the expense and cost of administering two or more accounts per person versus other alternatives such as using the phone, pager or whatever.

    OTOH, there's the other alternative where push is used as a covenience....it saves the trouble of hitting the "get mail" button. In such a situation it seems one would easily, (well most of us ), be able to avoid the urge to answer every buzz and again its seems a wholly credible solution.....not a "necessary solution" in this instance but a convenient one assuming you can live with the memory and battery impacts.

    One question I would like to ask is if it is possible, in the various push solutions, to set one account to issue an audible alarm and for the other account to just take the mail and provide no notification ? This would seem to be the best of both worlds as the user would be alerted if and only if it required immediate attention.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 02/19/2006 at 05:04 PM. Reason: dyslexic typing
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I am interested in clarity and credibility for evaluation purposes. If someone claims that they can improve productivity with push, I am all for learning how. Being in repsonsible charge of two organizations, I am all for improving productivity.
    Don't mean to offend but I think you are over-analyzing. Push solutions allow for filtering and forwarding only priority mail or mail from certain individuals. Many of us are working very efficiently with our push email solutions without two email accounts.

    Take a breath and then ask yourself "why, really, is the BB so popular." It wouldn't be if it wasted everyone's day away with purposeless alerts.

    The BB allows for various alert profiles that are consistent with your needs at any given moment. Silent, loud, vibration, etc. I keep my phone ringer on most of the time but only alert email with the LED indicator. I only check my mail when I want to or need to.

    The best way for you to get comfortable with a push solution for your multiple organizations would be for you to give it a try. You seem not to be pursuaded by the opinions/experience of strangers so that is your best bet.

    Look at the market and where things are trending (push), give it a trial and make your own analysis of the situation.
  6. #66  
    I am one of the Newest Fans of Push E-Mail. This feature has been beneficial to me in several ways. I initially had downloaded VersaMail, and had it set up for hourly updates, it seemed better but why Check Mail on my phone if there is nothing new to report.

    I get my e-mails when they are there, and for a few other random accounts, check them during down time!

    Push E-Mail makes life easier when in business!
    Craig M.
    Former Treo600 User
    No Longer Using a Treo, but Checking the Forums for Updates and such!
  7. #67  
    I agree with the suggestion for push doubters to just give it a shot. Install Chatter on that there Treo, sonny, and let the sparks fly. There is a reason BB is loved and it isn't because people are wasting time. Spam etc. will come in on Versamail just as easily.

    Don't ask about the merits of chocolate. Take a bite yourself.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    Don't mean to offend but I think you are over-analyzing. Push solutions allow for filtering and forwarding only priority mail or mail from certain individuals. Many of us are working very efficiently with our push email solutions without two email accounts.

    Take a breath and then ask yourself "why, really, is the BB so popular." It wouldn't be if it wasted everyone's day away with purposeless alerts.
    Popular doesn't mean productive....I need only refer you to the "Six most essential" Treo applications thread . Why is P-Tunes the top listed "essential" application ? I don't think it increasing anyone's productivity so why is it considered "essential" ? If I am to equate popularity with necessity then I should give push the same productivity value as P-tunes ? Enjoyable ?,...yes.... convenient ? yes...but essential ?

    BB is out of the question as it's just too limited of a device. Of course, that in itself is a reason for its popularity in many respects. I am interested in a Treo based push solution if it would work. My problem is getting an understanding or developing a filtering solution that works. An emergency call could come from say 100 of my 1500 contacts. OTOH, anyone of these peeps could be just sending me a joke they received by e-mail.

    Popularity can also be just a matter of convenience or just the ole BIC reasoning "because I can". I have no issue with peeps finding it convenient not having to hit a "get e-mail" button. It seems like a great tool to get new information out to large groups of people but again knowing they have it and knowing they've seen it are two different things.

    I think it is a useful tool when used appropriately but I am having trouble understanding how peeps use it as a primary means of getting / making emergency notifications.

    If I observed an emergency condition, a "threat to public life, safety and welfare" and it resulted in death 20 minutes later, I'd be totally lack of confidence of telling a judge deciding whether i get to keep my license that I sent an e-mail to a person who would have been in a position to prevent it. Would one replace a call for an ambulance or fire department with an e-mail knowing that the dispatcher carries a BB ?

    Getting back to the popularity of technology thing, how many offices use automated telephone menu systems ? Hard to argue that they don't save money.....one receptionist = $31,200 a year...system cost and maintence = $10k / year. But wait a minute .... my staff now spends at least a half minute per call navigating these menus. Say they make 30 calls per day. The engineer's salary is more than 3 times the receptionist's, so if I have 20 engineer's, that's $65,000 in lost pr0ductivity so all those other offices could save $20k. The overall impact on the economy therefore from this technology is negative.

    Basically, the only thing I am getting out of this is that "It saves me the trouble of hitting the "get e-mail" button. That seems a good enough benefit in and of itself and I don't see a reason to try and make it more than that. There's a bunch of Treo software that basically just eliminates a tap or two in getting these done and peeps have long been paying for those. I see nothing wrong with that. Of course I am assuming that when you delete all those pushed e-mails from your desktop that it also "pushes" out that they have been deleted and it isn't going to make you delete them from the Treo now.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers
    Spam etc. will come in on Versamail just as easily.
    But only if you tell it to go get it. Unless that phone rings telling me I have something urgent, no need to check e-mail.
  10. #70  
    I guess some people want their email before it's sent or something...

    Predictive email! That's it, I'm startin' a new thread...

    Like several of the others above me, I often get email through Chatter on my Treo before it arrives on my comp. And it's damn impressive every time.
    Why are ringtones always such a big issue? Don't people realize that they're obnoxious!? And why the Nintendo 'Wii'? What th-!?
  11. #71  
    Seems that some would rather spend unproductive time typing long posts at the expense of taking action with an experienced IT dept who will solve their questions.
  12. #72  
    I like push email. Here's an analogy that may or may not make sense. Yesterday, Sunday on a long holiday weekend, we had a problem with our heating unit. Water leak, and it's up in the attic. I called my usual heating/ac service guy, the one who installed the unit last year, and he was no where to be found. His claim of 24-hour service and no response to calls to his emergency number had my wife's head spinning like Linda Blair in The Exorcist. I didn't care so much about the water leak as I did about a psychotic and potentially homocidal spouse!

    I called several local repairmen/contractors and got answering machines. "Leave a number and someone will get back to you...." Great. Water coming through a light fixure upstars, wife's head spinning, and someone will get back to me "some time." Not what I need to hear. I try another company and a human answers the phone, takes my info, and in 1/2 hour somebody is at my door with a toolbox.

    If this were email, the guys waiting with messages in their inboxes aren't getting the job, the guy with push email (who answered the call) got the info and the job. Getting the info right away can mean the difference between getting the job and not getting it. It's a paralled, I know, but you can easily see how in the business world getting the email first, before your competitors, can make all the difference.
  13. Cartman's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by joesheets
    Thanks for the reply and info, however, my company requires the secure ID code as the password. The ID changes every 60 seconds, so I dont see a way to work with this. My company is VERY tight in this regard. They are considering supporting Treos in the near future. guess i'll just have to wait.

    joe

    Yes! RSA SecurID is now DirectPush friendly...

    One of the questions I consistently get asked during conferences is: "Does ActiveSync support RSA SecurID?". This is a two-part answer. The short answer is "Yes, Windows Mobile and Exchange ActiveSync support SecurID". The second part is: "But, the experience on the device is really not that good...especially if you have Scheduled Sync or DirectPush enabled".

    Let me briefly elaborate on that. The key point is that if you have SecurID enabled when the device issues a request to the server it will be challenged to enter the SecurID. From the user perspective this is a familiar form where you can just type in the SecurID, click OK and the device can sync. This is a somewhat ok experience if you manually sync every once in a while. But, if you have DirectPush you are pretty much challenged to enter the SecurID token every time you get an email...you get the point: it really becomes extremely annoying for users. Who would want to enter the SecurID token for every email?

    The GREAT news is that our friends at RSA have notified us that they have a fix to improve the end-user experience and still get the SecurID benefits. In their latest RSA Web Agent update there is a new feature that allows ActiveSync sessions to be "cached" for an admin-chosen number of hours. This is better explained by an extract from RSA:

    -------

    "RSA Authentication Agent 5.3 for Web for IIS enables you to use Microsoft Outlook Web Access ActiveSync without having to reauthenticate every time ActiveSync is invoked. When you invoke ActiveSync by clicking Sync on the Pocket PC, the Agent provides a one-time authentication window for ActiveSync that is valid for a default of 15 minutes. This default time setting matches the default time setting of Cookies Always Expire After the Specified Time. If you extend the duration of the browser session cookie by changing the value in the Cookies Always Expire After the Specified Time field on the Agent tab of the IIS configuration panel, you extend the one-time authentication window for ActiveSync to the same number of minutes. You can further extend the ActiveSync time window to remain valid beyond the maximum time duration of the browser session cookie by adding an entry to the registry.

    To extend the ActiveSync time window:

    On the protected web server, log on as Administrator.
    Click Start > Run and in the Run dialog box, enter regedit.
    In the Registry Editor, click HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SDTI\RSAWebAgent.
    In the right pane of the Registry Editor window, right-click, and then click New > DWORD Value.
    For the new value name, enter ActiveSyncWindowExtension = <number of minutes>, where <number of minutes> is the number of minutes that you want the ActiveSync time window to remain open.
    The maximum number of minutes is 1440 (one day).
    "

    -------

    You can find more info on the RSA web site or if you are an RSA customer you can call their support line.

    This is truly great news!

    - Max Ciccotosto
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47
    If this were email, the guys waiting with messages in their inboxes aren't getting the job, the guy with push email (who answered the call) got the info and the job. Getting the info right away can mean the difference between getting the job and not getting it. It's a paralled, I know, but you can easily see how in the business world getting the email first, before your competitors, can make all the difference.
    \

    But I think the key is....you chose not to use e-mail.....you chose not to e-mail these people, you chose to call them. With water pouring in and a homicidal spouse....or a contract at risk, I'd use a phone instead of an e-mail for that very reason. Getting the message to the dude's Treo is not my goal....getting his attentioin is.

    I use TreoAlarm to get my weather. It does it automatically instead of me having to load my browser and go yahooing. It's convenient and I don't mind paying for the convenience. After all this discussion that's how I think I have settled my views on push. For critical communication it's kinda like sending an overnight mail w/o asking for a signature. You got it to the guy's building but you are never really sure and can never prove he got it.

    The only thing I am weighing now is what inconvenience it offers....what will it be like getting 200 e-mails a day on my little tiny Treo screen ? How hard will it be to find what I need quickly ? When I delete these e-mails on my desktop, does it PUSH out to the Treo and remove the e-mail for me ?
  15. #75  
    Decision-making based on internet forum posts is akin to crystalball-gazing to pick stocks.

    Obviously, this was a silly attempt to make an argument against push email where there was nothing to be taken seriously. What a waste.
  16. #76  
    A double waste for those of us who were sucked into the argument.
  17. #77  
    I am not sure I want to get into this pissing contest, but...

    Push Email, in the straight sense of the words, is getting email to you automatically without you having to go check. It doesn't have anything to do with speed.

    If you have OWA, and a compatible web browser, that is truely PUSH. Stuff go into your mail box, you just go read.

    Without BES, BB "push" email in the manner above. Its server check your email box, pull it into their server, and you check it via a browser. The cycle takes about 20 minutes to "push" it to you.

    With BES, it scans your server and sends a signal to your PDA to go pull the email down. I am not sure what frequency it scans, but scan it does. Since your BB/Treo is not always keeping the pipe open and keeping the system ready in "receive mode" like a pop3 post office, so mail is not pushed into your mailbox. It just get the signal and pulls for you automatically. So what you are arguing is does it pull automatic or manual.

    If you are arguing speed, you are not arguing push v pull. I can configure a pull and a push system side by side and make sure that the pull system gets the email before the push - set the Treo VersaMail to sync every 15 minutes, set the BES scan to once a day. So push/pull really is not a speed issue. Who is faster now?

    The difference you guys are talking about is whether it pulls automatically or manually.

    Eitherway, in my experience, the delay in traveling between where there is signal and where there is no signal is by far a much bigger number. That, and the frequency of polling defines the speed.

    The advantage I see with "push" is if BB server can send you a signal to go pull, you are at a place where you HAVE signal. Whereas, with pull email, when you are ready to pull, your car may be in wonderland where coverage is nonexisting.

    For a sales guy on the road, while at the airport, the signal is likely good. Email got pulled automatically. On the bus to the car rental, signal is weak - I see the BB (with BES) folks reading email (pull down while at airport) while the Treo/VersaMail folks swear. Had the Treo guy did the pull while at the airport, he could be reading too. As you drive to the client, you will pass good signal and bad signal area - if you poll frequent enough (push or pull), you can grab the mail while you have signal.

    If you are interupt driven, "push" suit better. A matter of work style. No more then is blue ink is better or black ink.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by camartin
    A double waste for those of us who were sucked into the argument.
    If there was any positive net result, it was that the egomaniacal clowns identified themselves with precision..
  19. iramike's Avatar
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    #79  
    I honestly ask myself on a regular basis why do I need Push email. At this point the only reason I use it, is cause I can. I bought Chatter cause I wanted a stable email application, I have an old AOL account and they are IMAP, and I also use Fusemail to combine some old POP3 accounts into one account, so there it is, the only reason I have Push. Though I can see why some people use it, a buddy of mine works IT and he gets email messages all day telling him that a computer is down or something is broken, and that I guess would be a real rason for PUSH!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickLaw

    With BES, it scans your server and sends a signal to your PDA to go pull the email down. I am not sure what frequency it scans, but scan it does. Since your BB/Treo is not always keeping the pipe open and keeping the system ready in "receive mode" like a pop3 post office, so mail is not pushed into your mailbox. It just get the signal and pulls for you automatically. So what you are arguing is does it pull automatic or manual.
    This isn't quite right. With BES (and Good, for that matter), the device does not do anything. The BES or GoodLink server continually monitors the Exchange server. When there is activity, the BES or GLS sends the traffic to the device. It does not notify the device and have the device go and get the traffic. What you are describing is, in essence, triggered pull. BES and GL do not work this way. They are true push. The device will send traffic that is generated on the device, but that is not the argument here.

    If you are arguing speed, you are not arguing push v pull. I can configure a pull and a push system side by side and make sure that the pull system gets the email before the push - set the Treo VersaMail to sync every 15 minutes, set the BES scan to once a day. So push/pull really is not a speed issue. Who is faster now?
    While not a BES expert by any stretch, I don't think there is a setting to have the BES scan the email server. It is a constant scan. Again, could be wrong.


    Another point that is not being 'discussed' is the sync of calendar, contacts, etc. Yes, actual email is key component, but my customers tend to point to real time calendaring as a major reason they go with a push solution.
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