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  1.    #1  
    I know I'll get blasted for this post. But reading these posts about push email and going through all the trouble and expense just to imitate a blackberry is just hilarious. It's just ridiculous that you can't spend 3-5 seconds to download your email or to have an email client check email every few mins automatically.

    Someone please give me a real world example how your life is more difficult to have to check for mail or to be alerted say every 15 mins or so you have a new email that was just downloaded.

    Don't tell me its because you might receive an email that's so urgent it can't wait. It would be stupid to place such faith in a matter that urgent through email.

    So what can be done with push email that can't be done as mentioned above?
  2. #2  
    It just seems everyone wants it now. I only need to check email once or twice an hour, and that's when I'm not busy. If I get busy, it could be 2 hours or more. I ask people to call if it really is important.

    However, I'm sure there are good reasons, such as very important emails containing reports or something. Or clients who always seem to want a reply NOW. Or the boss who always wants a reply NOW.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #3  
    Agreed. I much prefer to pull my mail at set increments of time. BB's are so lame.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  4. #4  
    Ques: what's the big deal about push email?


    Ans: A BIG DEAL
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by rastoma
    I know I'll get blasted for this post. But reading these posts about push email and going through all the trouble and expense just to imitate a blackberry is just hilarious. It's just ridiculous that you can't spend 3-5 seconds to download your email or to have an email client check email every few mins automatically.

    Someone please give me a real world example how your life is more difficult to have to check for mail or to be alerted say every 15 mins or so you have a new email that was just downloaded.

    Don't tell me its because you might receive an email that's so urgent it can't wait. It would be stupid to place such faith in a matter that urgent through email.

    So what can be done with push email that can't be done as mentioned above?

    Depends in which industry and what level you are in. If you are junior in an organization it wont matter as much.
    More than push email the convenience that push email offers is that it shows up by itself without your having to touch your device at all, whenever you delete on your device or send off it, it show sup in your sent email etc..
  6. HalM's Avatar
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    #6  
    All in all, I agree that too much is being made out of this. Messages hit my WM5 devices within 90 seconds which is 2 to 3 times faster than using Outlook with RPC / HTTP. It may have started with the BB and Good users trying to show that their product is superior but that is just a guess. Assuming you are talking about “push” as part of AKU2.0, here is the deal.

    “Push” is a single feature in a much larger package. The MS feature and Security Pack (AKU2.0) brings a true enterprise level messaging system. First, the way info gets to the phone from an Exchange server changes. Right now, a SMS service message is sent to the phone that tells it to do a background sync. In this sync, email, calendar, and contacts containers are checked looking for changes. With AKU2.0, a TCP heartbeat will be established between the phone and server. When a change is made on the server, only that change will be sent. . . Less bandwidth, no SMS messages. While it is probably MS bravado, they claim that with this configuration an email will hit the phone before it hits an Outlook fat client on the desktop, so this connection will be fast.

    The next big change will be security. If you lose your phone today, for example, you and you data are out of luck. Anyone who picks it up can access it. With AKU2.0, there are a number of features to prevent this including required PIN / Passwords after a configurable period of inactivity and Remote Wipe.

    Finally, by design, WM5 devices will be upgradable. So theoretically when the next version of WM comes out we won't have to buy new phones, just a new ROM from the carrier / device manufacturer.

    There are probably a number of other improvements, but these are the major ones. HTH.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by rastoma
    I know I'll get blasted for this post. But reading these posts about push email and going through all the trouble and expense just to imitate a blackberry is just hilarious. It's just ridiculous that you can't spend 3-5 seconds to download your email or to have an email client check email every few mins automatically.

    Someone please give me a real world example how your life is more difficult to have to check for mail or to be alerted say every 15 mins or so you have a new email that was just downloaded.

    Don't tell me its because you might receive an email that's so urgent it can't wait. It would be stupid to place such faith in a matter that urgent through email.

    So what can be done with push email that can't be done as mentioned above?
    I can say with 100% certainty that those who work in the financial securities industry (or at least for those in segments of. i.e., money management/trading, etc) need real-time information as stale information is less valuable. It's a possibility that Dr.'s and medical personnel may need timely information as well, maybe not. I'm sure there are other fields and needs where one might require (as opposed to want) real-time info. other than that, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT!

    just some thoughts!
  8. #8  
    There's more too. Many road warriors have administrative assistants who manage schedule changes for them. They do this by opening the road warrior's mail, answering the phone and handling their up front prospect management work. With push emails, you can also tell if your email has been opened already or not by your administrative assistant. Your always up to date schedule includes information and meeting changes that your assistant has made for you. This is perhaps the killer reason why the major muck-y-mucks are all over push technology.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by athreya
    Depends in which industry and what level you are in. If you are junior in an organization it wont matter as much.
    I am President of 2 organizations and I still can't think of a reason to have it and a lot of reasons not to. On my own end, I simply do NOT want all that junk on my handheld. What is the point of getting 125 e-mails cause I am subscribed to threads on TC when I am out of the office for 4, 8, 16 hours. If I am out of the office, I am either inspecting a job site, meeting with a client, meeting with elected officials or doing something else that requires my full attention. If I am in a position where I can actually sit down and answer an e-mail, I will download the headers and respond to a very small percentage of them. If I need a file, it's a hell of a lot easier to have it faxed or e-mailed to my location , where it can easily be printed, copied and distributed than to send it to my phone.

    On the corporate end, any employee that is observed playing with his cell phone / PDA frequently or installing an IM client is someone who isn't going to get past his probationary period. Until MS did their damn bundling thing with IE, we had no browsers on most office machines. We don't need web access for the whole office to design buildings and bridges. I don't wanna pay a licensed engineer to search for door catalogue information when I can get the copy boy to do it at 1/5th the engineer's salary.

    I also teach continuing education courses required for engineers to maintain their professional licenses and most of the people I hire are people I have met at these course events. Any person who I have ever observed "playing" with his / her PDA / phone during a seminar is a person I would never hire.

    The last impression I am interested in giving any client is that I am at their "beck and call" at all hours. In the old days, we had secretaries saying "He's in a meeting"....or "he can't be disturbed". Now with a gadget in the middle, for some reason we want to give up that separation. Another so called "tool" is "call waiting"......am I suppossed to hang up on one client to pick up a call from another ? It's rude, impolite and insulting. Where's the crisis in finishing your call over the next 30 seconds and then calling the person back ? What world shaking event will result in disaster under this scenario ? Unless your Jack Bauer asking TCU for the detonator frequency so you can blow up the terrorists, I don't think having the caller wait 30 seconds is life threatening or a "deal breaker".

    Yes, in my position emergencies do occur. That's why I have a cell phone. When my cell phone is off, my staff knows the procedures to follow. If I am in a meeting in a client's office, they will call the client's office because they know that phone will be turned off (not on vibrate) while in the meeting. When I am the potential client, if anyone on the room starts looking at cell phones / PDA's during a meeting, the only conclusion I can draw is that I don't have the full focus and attention and, to me, that's reason to rfind somebody else. If I am paying for this hour, I want your full attention....not peeking to see if some other client wants you on my nickel or whether you should bring home milk and bread. I always schedule meetings with communication breaks every hour so that people can do whatever it is they gotta do.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by HalM
    Finally, by design, WM5 devices will be upgradable. So theoretically when the next version of WM comes out we won't have to buy new phones, just a new ROM from the carrier / device manufacturer.
    .
    With phone makes putting "additional" features on the phones, like the palm 700w, are you sure they will be able to upgrade the phone? Seems to me getting people in the door to purchase new phones and accessories would be in the best interest of cell phone makers and providers.

    I am not saying the T700 will not be able to upgrade, but I would be surprised if you could upgrade it.
  11. #11  
    1.) Instant email. What if a new male enhancement pill comes out? Wouldn't you want to know about it immediately?
    2.) Better battery savings because you don't have to poll. (No pun intended.)
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwindsurfer
    1.) Instant email. What if a new male enhancement pill comes out? Wouldn't you want to know about it immediately?
    2.) Better battery savings because you don't have to poll. (No pun intended.)
    BTW, I really enjoyed my Treo this week. Listening to Rob Zombie while snowboarding and being able to take movies and pictures and surf the internet while on the lift was great. How did people survive without gadgets back in the old days?
  13. HalM's Avatar
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    #13  
    Jack, while many of your concerns can be addressed with Outlook server side rules you make a lot of great points. Especially to the point is “The last impression I am interested in giving any client is that I am at their "beck and call" at all hours.” We are Exchange consultants and when our clients start talking about BB, Good, ActiveSync, etc., the first question we ask is “are you sure that you want to be THAT connected?” Many have never thought past the “cool” factor and really scale back who they want to have the devices.

    You also mention that you would make a call versus writing an email if an emergency were to occur. That is the way I work as well. This topic gets back to picking the right device for the user. We recommend that if you plan to just perform triage on your mail, then a Smartphone like a Cingular 2125 or i-Mate SP5 makes more sense. A good example, since you are an engineer, is a client of ours is a electrial co-op. All of their staff engineers have Smartphones. They set them up to ensure they receive appropriate SCADA information that effect customer outages. Very helpful, to say the least.

    All said and done, technology is cool and he with the most/best toys wins.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by HalM
    All said and done, technology is cool and he with the most/best toys wins.
    Well these Treos are time savers....just look at my life:

    The Treo must save me at least 15 - 30 minutes a week.

    And then.....

    -I spend 15 minutes a week running trackerdog and upgrading programs from version 5.2.14.2 to 5.2,14.3
    -I spend 15 minutes figuring out why TomTom is dropping signal when I go to store for milk and bread.
    -I spend 2 hours a week searching the web to see if I am better off using AlwaysOn or STOIC to keep my Palm on in cradle.
    -I spend 2 hours a week comparing blazer to opera mini plus 2 hours to get it on SD card.
    -I spend 15 minutes a week upgrading Metro's public transportation db's for cities I have never visited.
    -I spend 10 minutes trying to figure out which "Mama's Pizza" is the one I go to in TomTom's POI listings.
    -I spend 18 hours a week reading / posting on TreoCentral
  15. #15  
    @JackNaylorPE

    heh... senior execs seem to fall into two slots: Those who won't work without blackberries or blackberry style push email systems and those who threaten immediate termination for anybody they see "wasting their time" at work using blackberries, IM or other push email solutions.

    At my company, secretaries still say "(s)he's busy" but ITMT email a quick one to that exec that the person is trying to get in touch. Push email adds depth to the administrative assistant/executive interaction process. In fact, it takes it to a whole new level and its the client that ultimately benefits.

    Some of our execs immediately filter all messages that aren't from their assistants to different folders. That way, their BB shows the important messages that the assistant needs them to be aware of. A quick check of the "inbox" folder brings up the relevant threads.

    Push email and IM don't waste an employees time. My team couldn't exist without handheld, wireless IM (I use verichat on my T3 when out of the office). I'm in constant contact with a deeper level of expertise from all members of my team when I'm in meetings and presentations because of this. That's a benefit that my company encourages. My team instantly verifies the BS factor of presentations using the Internet in real time on their handhelds. Collaboration is what's taking us to the fortune 500. IM and Push email are cutting edge collaboration tools.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth255
    My team couldn't exist without handheld, wireless IM (I use verichat on my T3 when out of the office). I'm in constant contact with a deeper level of expertise from all members of my team when I'm in meetings and presentations because of this.
    Add up the time saved and minus the time "playing" and I think most times you will get a negative. Of course variations will exist depending on what you are doing.....a "Holy crap....sell that bum stock" note might need to be "instantly" conveyed, (seems phone call would do same thing tho) but certainly nothing in my world needs such instant gratiifcation.

    The last thing I want is one of my team waching his IM client when he's suppossed to be running beam calculations on a bridge or building. I much prefer his / her full attention be on the calcs and not whether Jack Bauer had a Sprint or Cingular Treo on 24 last night.

    I spend a good part of my day trying to avoid being disturbed and having my work interrupted. When a client is waiting for a permit and I tell him that I will call him as soon as the agncy grants it, do I really need to take his call / e-mail / IM 5 times a day to say "no, it hasn't been approved yet " ? If my team needs to talk to me to complete their assigned duties more than once a day, I figure I have hired the wrong people.

    Look at the "700p in my hands thread".....glad I ain't paying the salaries of all those with 20+ posts during working hours.
  17. #17  
    Heck, if my people weren't posting during working hours then they wouldn't be learning anything new and their value as employees would be vastly reduced. The trades are different. Techniques are established there and remain consistant over long periods of time. Newer approaches take a long time to be introduced because lives may be at stake. You wouldn't build a bridge without employing time tested, proven techniques. In the information business however, almost the exact opposite applies. We need the knowledge to be competitive. We need to choose the best in a constantly changing arena. The rule of two's doesn't apply because out-of-the-box innovation can actually get it done right, quick and cheap. In my occupation, its not what you know, its how well you can use Google.... Thus the value of push email.
  18. #18  
    Like I said, if I was watching stocks, then seeing the 700p thread might have an effect on whether you'd get the jump on grabbing (or dumping) a crapload of Palm stock. Even in IT servcies tho, I think it would be a rare occassion that my proposal for laying 1500 desktops in a Fortune 500 company would be substantially affected by a press release at 11 am on what showed up at the CES in Vegas . Yes, There are industries that "might" benefit but IMHO, the great majority will not. I don't think GM is gonna halt a production run because Toyota just introduced a 3 wheeled car. You may have a definable use for push e-mail...it may even be shown to have a positive ROI.

    As a "borderline" industry, I can see a real estate agent out showing a house that might like to have "pushed" an e-mail with a new listing with Photos but it seems they wouldn't lose any competitive advanatge via a phone call saying "I just sent ya some pics of new listing". OTOH, if the office routinely "pushes" all 257 new listings....how do you kinow ya got soemthing urgent and how long wil it take to find outta the 257 ?w

    I had the xerox machine guy in here last week doing a repair and he took out his BB while waiting for the machine to warn up, but continued scanning his e-mails well after it was finished....."er excuse me bud but I kinda need this machine". He explained that he was checking where he had to go next and I answered that he's welcome to do that as soon as my machine was spittin out copies.

    I asked why he didn't just use my phone and got all the stories about how they can send him drivers and stuff right to his BB....my answer ...."er what you gonna do with it on the BB ? ....wouldn't it just be easier to e-mail the driver to me and the machine you are going to install this driver on ?" What cracked me up after he was finished he had to "call the office" to tell him he was done.

    I would say that about 85% of US workers have no definable need for a Treo / BB. About 90% of the 15% that are left have no definable need for push. Then again, I am defining "need" as something "necessary to do your job" which can be demonstrated to have a positive ROI. IIRC, in the 6 most esseential apps thread, the overwhelmingly "most needed" program was P-Tunes which, by my definition, no one "needs". I think far too many peeps have "gadgetitis" and the time they spend with their gadgets far outways any time savings they glean from them. Personally, I love gadgets...I just try and play with them on my own time and not let them interfere with getting the job done. No sense dragging out the air compressor and nail gun to hang a picture on the wall.
  19. #19  
    I am an IT manager and need push mail to get outage notifications when I'm nowhere near my laptop. I often need to be on a call within 10 minutes of being notified. (Text messages don't provide sufficient outage info.)

    I can set my mail to pull every 5 minutes but that would only result in me having to reset my device 3-4 times each day to free up memory because of leaks. Push email works better.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    I am President of 2 organizations and I still can't think of a reason to have it and a lot of reasons not to. On my own end, I simply do NOT want all that junk on my handheld. What is the point of getting 125 e-mails cause I am subscribed to threads on TC when I am out of the office for 4, 8, 16 hours. If I am out of the office, I am either inspecting a job site, meeting with a client, meeting with elected officials or doing something else that requires my full attention. If I am in a position where I can actually sit down and answer an e-mail, I will download the headers and respond to a very small percentage of them. If I need a file, it's a hell of a lot easier to have it faxed or e-mailed to my location , where it can easily be printed, copied and distributed than to send it to my phone.

    On the corporate end, any employee that is observed playing with his cell phone / PDA frequently or installing an IM client is someone who isn't going to get past his probationary period. Until MS did their damn bundling thing with IE, we had no browsers on most office machines. We don't need web access for the whole office to design buildings and bridges. I don't wanna pay a licensed engineer to search for door catalogue information when I can get the copy boy to do it at 1/5th the engineer's salary.

    I also teach continuing education courses required for engineers to maintain their professional licenses and most of the people I hire are people I have met at these course events. Any person who I have ever observed "playing" with his / her PDA / phone during a seminar is a person I would never hire.

    The last impression I am interested in giving any client is that I am at their "beck and call" at all hours. In the old days, we had secretaries saying "He's in a meeting"....or "he can't be disturbed". Now with a gadget in the middle, for some reason we want to give up that separation. Another so called "tool" is "call waiting"......am I suppossed to hang up on one client to pick up a call from another ? It's rude, impolite and insulting. Where's the crisis in finishing your call over the next 30 seconds and then calling the person back ? What world shaking event will result in disaster under this scenario ? Unless your Jack Bauer asking TCU for the detonator frequency so you can blow up the terrorists, I don't think having the caller wait 30 seconds is life threatening or a "deal breaker".

    Yes, in my position emergencies do occur. That's why I have a cell phone. When my cell phone is off, my staff knows the procedures to follow. If I am in a meeting in a client's office, they will call the client's office because they know that phone will be turned off (not on vibrate) while in the meeting. When I am the potential client, if anyone on the room starts looking at cell phones / PDA's during a meeting, the only conclusion I can draw is that I don't have the full focus and attention and, to me, that's reason to rfind somebody else. If I am paying for this hour, I want your full attention....not peeking to see if some other client wants you on my nickel or whether you should bring home milk and bread. I always schedule meetings with communication breaks every hour so that people can do whatever it is they gotta do.
    we have spam software running on our servers, maybe you should. i don't have to search through the clutter. as for your job and your needs, it's just that, they're your needs. many if not all in the financial services industry need information on a real time basis, period. your methods and strategies may not work for others, they may work for some, they definately don't work for me. it seems as though you're broadcasting your experiences/needs across all others, it's far from being the case.
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