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  1.    #1  
    Verizon says that ALL cell phones they sell now have built in GPS chips for e911 systems. Supposedly if the e911 system is installed in your area, it can receive your coordinates during a 911 call.

    So, can anyone confirm if the 700w (or 650 for that matter) has this GPS chip? And if so, why can't we access it for other applications, like maps.
  2. #2  
    Well, yes, all VZW phones have aGPS built in. I believe it is a mandated requirement of using the e911 system. BUT...and someone keep me honest, aGPS does not put out data in NMEA format which is what is used by standalone GPS devices and navigational systems.

    I think just for kicks I'm going to fool around with the GPS settings and see if I can get TomTom to see it. I don't think it'll work...but just for the hell of it.

    EDIT: Nope, no go. I deleted my incoming Outgoing BT connection to free up the COM port and then changed the GPS settings to Broadcast (instead of 911 only).

    In TomTom, I tried it both while selecting a Other BT GPS Unit and a Cabled GPS unit, niether of them recieved a signal. I'm fairly certain that aGPS in the phones just won't broadcast in the correct format.
    Last edited by Big Calhoun; 01/17/2006 at 11:26 AM.
  3. #3  
    See the GPS thread in the WM Apps forum. It will help confirm that you are correct.
  4. #4  
    This isn't GPSR per se. It triangulates your position. It does not use GPS satelites.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt
    This isn't GPSR per se. It triangulates your position. It does not use GPS satelites.

    Actually there is some satellite input on the server end:


    http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art...l.jsp?id=12287
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Actually there is some satellite input on the server end:


    http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art...l.jsp?id=12287
    Right, but as I said, the phone is not a gpsr. People shouldn't get confused between agps and gpsr.
  7. #7  
    According to http://www.radio-electronics.com/inf...sisted_gps.php
    there is a GPS chip in a agps solution.

    The reason why Tom Tom might not see it could be as simple as there is not API in Palm OS for it, or the registers to read it are not in the same address space that Tom Tom is looking for.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by race View Post
    Verizon says that ALL cell phones they sell now have built in GPS chips for e911 systems. Supposedly if the e911 system is installed in your area, it can receive your coordinates during a 911 call.

    So, can anyone confirm if the 700w (or 650 for that matter) has this GPS chip? And if so, why can't we access it for other applications, like maps.
    That's what the target symbol is on the today screen. Click on it.

    I always thought that the GPS in the phone was something very simple that basically just says "here I am," whereas a GPS receiver actually obtains its own location, which it sends to the GPS program. Make any sense? Yeah, I guess it doesn't. But I know what I mean
  9. #9  
    bump
  10. #10  
    The 700W does use GPS technology and an onboard GPS chip to help determine a location, but because it was intended for emergency calling situations with tight specs on performance, does not perform this function in a standard or stand alone basis. It uses a form of GPS called A-GPS for assisted GPS. The cell network does a preliminary determination of position and sends appropriate information to the cell phone (information such as viewable satellites, orbital data, etc.) With this information, the GPS chip is able to lock-on much more quickly and reliably than from a cold start and when it gets a fix, provides this data to the network which then forwards this data (ultimately in a 911 compatible format) to the emergency services network data base. Unlike a handheld GPS unit which operates as on a standalone, the built-in GPS on the Treo requires a cooperative process with the network. It will permit non-911 location based services to be supported from the network but was not designed as a stand-alone GPS unit. Also, for battery consumption purposes, the GPS chip is generally kept off and therefore is dependent upon receiving aiding data to determine the delay time from several satellites to calculate position.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by wejrye View Post
    The 700W does use GPS technology and an onboard GPS chip to help determine a location, but because it was intended for emergency calling situations with tight specs on performance, does not perform this function in a standard or stand alone basis. It uses a form of GPS called A-GPS for assisted GPS. The cell network does a preliminary determination of position and sends appropriate information to the cell phone (information such as viewable satellites, orbital data, etc.) With this information, the GPS chip is able to lock-on much more quickly and reliably than from a cold start and when it gets a fix, provides this data to the network which then forwards this data (ultimately in a 911 compatible format) to the emergency services network data base. Unlike a handheld GPS unit which operates as on a standalone, the built-in GPS on the Treo requires a cooperative process with the network. It will permit non-911 location based services to be supported from the network but was not designed as a stand-alone GPS unit. Also, for battery consumption purposes, the GPS chip is generally kept off and therefore is dependent upon receiving aiding data to determine the delay time from several satellites to calculate position.
    This sounds wrong, very wrong.

    Surur
  12. #12  
    Do a Google on A-GPS. It is widely documented and published. The original requirement on location technology was for 911 not for information services. The market is split by technology into two camps. Those that use some network based triangulation solution (TDAM and GSM, e.g. Cingular) and those that use GPS (CDMA based solutions.) CDMA networks (e.g. Verizon) use spread spectrum technology which requires a highly synchronized network. This made them attractive for GPS applications. GSM and TDMA are not highly time synchronized and to implement a GPS solution would have been costly on the handset (Remember a GPS handset costs ~$100). The goal was to have a low cost impact of say less than $5 per handset.

    Using the existing capabilities of the CDMA handset and a network assist, GPS satellites could be used but not in the exact same way as a stand alone handset functions.

    Comparing what a handheld GPS unit does to what is done in a cell phone is somewhat apples and oranges.

    Carriers are starting to look at commercial opportunities for location based services since the capability is embedded in the network today. Regardless of approach used (GPS or other) all 911 based approaches rely upon network capabilities to work and will not provide the stand alone capabilities of a consumer gps unit.

    They work only with the aid of additional funcitons provided by the service operator.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by wejrye View Post
    Carriers are starting to look at commercial opportunities for location based services since the capability is embedded in the network today.
    I cannot answer much on the technical deep end of this question, but it appears this is already happenning now:

    Disney Mobile --- Using GPS over Sprint Network
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This sounds wrong, very wrong.

    Surur
    Actually it's mostly correct, especially the difference between AGPS and GPSR like in a tomtom/garmin/magellan. A phone with AGPS does not have any type of antenna that receives sat signals like a gpsr.

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