Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1.    #1  
    Okay.....it comes up in every other thread....those that say that the 700w is crippled due to Palm only putting in 32mb of Memory so it is the worst phone on the market today....and the other side saying they are just nay sayers and don't know what they are talking about that it will do anything anyone wants it do....and everything in between.

    So, I wanted to lay out some FACTS on this issue, instead of dealing with it thread by thread and post by post.

    The current standard amount of RAM in WM for the last 12-18 months has been up to 64 of RAM. I say up to 64 mb of RAM because during the vast majority of this time all of these devices were WM03 devices. In WM03, the memory management was handled VERY diferently than in WM05. In WM03 you used the Flash ROM to boot up the device (some even had persistent storage to help with this and /or with normal storage of files and apps). Then it split the storage ROM and the RAM with the infamous slider:
    This gave you the opportunity to take RAM and use it for storage or manage your storage with an SD card and give yourself more RAM. But at least out of the box the standard was around 64 mb of RAM with around 25-40 or so available after everything was booted up.

    Even all WM05 devices that I am aware of in the price range of the Treo 700w has 64 mb of RAM.

    Now here is a pretty good summary of how WM05 handles memory:
    Implications of Memory Management in Windows Mobile 5.0 for Pocket PCs

    Rom
    Since Microsoft decided switch to storing all information in flash, there are benefits and trade offs. First as a benefit, all your data is stored in flash and the flash is not erased if you run the battery of your Pocket PC dry. This is now called persistent storage. Second, the flash space in the Pocket PC is split between storage and rom. So the amount of data or programs you install on your Pocket PC is limited by the amount of free storage (flash) on your device. Also note that the storage in flash is not compressed like it was in prior versions so you cannot store as much information in flash. Also due to this design, programs that are installed stored in flash are copied to ram to be executed thus they occupy twice the space. Finally the directory of data stored in the boot rom is merged with the storage flash so the user sees the file system as one. If a file in the boot rom is replaced by a file in storage flash the storage flash file is used.

    RAM
    So the ram inside the Pocket PC is now dedicated to running programs. So if you attempt to run multiple programs that are "hogs" like you used to in Windows Mobile 2003, they may not run or the operating system may close some of them. Users should be aware that the 32mb size limitation for a single program still applies to Windows Mobile 5.0 applications. The memory management for programs still applies as well where the operating system flushes pages of programs that are no longer needed, thus optimizing the use of ram in the system for other programs to execute.

    Conclusion
    Overall this new model of storage and execution space in Windows Mobile 5.0 more closely resembles the way your PC stores programs in rom (like your hard disk) and execute programs in ram. I believe that the benefits of storing all information in flash outweigh the loss of space and ability to run large applications. This is the same model that the Smartphone has used since it's introduction in 2002.

    http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/5.0/...management.htm
    PRO OR CON?
    Now on the 700w it has 32 mb of RAM out of the box, and after the OS and PIMs load you have about 10-15 mb of free RAM left to launch other programs, multitask, multimedia, etc... This may very well be MORE than enough for you, or you may find yourself feeling limited. This claim is based solely on your personal use, needs, and wants and nothing more.

    As with any claimed feature or limitation, this is can only be fairly answered by each individual user. It is important to know the facts about it. Look at what you want or expect to be able to do with it. Then decide if this suites your needs....then it is a pro.....or if your needs exceeds the memory....then it is a con. NO ONE PERSON is right or wrong when they come up with their answer!!!!!

    The 700w is a GREAT PHONE!!!! I said this before, I would not hang around and support a forum for a phone that I would never personally buy....only because it does not meet my personal needs...is because I do believe that it is the perfect phone for a lot of people. It will make hundreds of thousands very happy customers. But if your personal needs exceeds the lower amount of memory it offers compared to nearly every other WM device, then you will be disapointed. It is simply making an educated decision with knowing what you want to do with it.



    EDIT: Please DO NOT turn this into a Memory bashing thread on either side of the fence on this issue. I would rather dedicate this thread to understanding how the 700w uses memory to help those make an educated decision.

    It would also be nice to use this thread with suggestions of how best to manage and be the most productive with the memory available.

    It can be factual, but don't slander......IN SHORT KEEP IT POSITIVE....
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 01/15/2006 at 02:52 AM.
  2. #2  
    Althought I do not own a Treo 700w but I do own a Qtek 9100 which also uses WM5. The following tips are applicable since the WM5 OS is the same across the board except for customizations done by the OEM.

    Tip 1: Removing programs from the startup menu.

    Programs that are installed are sometimes set to startup when your Treo fires up.

    By going to Start-Programs-File Explorer-Windows-Startup you can remove unnecssary programs from starting up when you fire up your device. Check to see if Voice Command is set to startup at the beginning as it is a memory hog.

    Tip 1a: I posted this in my "Request: Extended ROM" thread but we should find out what the contents of the extended ROM are. Is it even accessible? The reason In other Window Mobils devices carriers and OEMS would sometimes put in extra programs which were considerable memory hogs. Removing these programs from installing in the first place after a inital start/hard reset saved memory.

    A great example of this was the I-Mate virus scanner on the the K-JAM. With the program installed the device ran at a snail's pace, by removing it the phone became quicker.

    Tip 2: Use a better Task Manager
    The WM5 task manager is not adequate. It is hidden away and does not close programs when you hit X

    I recommend MagicButton
    Magic Button

    This program is much better as it will close programs when you hit X. It does not take up extra real estate, allows you to mark programs that never need to be closed (such as phone, messaging)

    Tip 3: AVOID Windows Media Player 10
    This thing is bloatware at its worst.

    Use a 3rd party media player such as TCPMP which uses considerably less RAM.
    TCPMP Link.
    Last edited by Perceptions; 01/15/2006 at 12:38 AM.
  3.    #3  
    Perceptions....GREAT Tips. Thanks.
  4. d1hamby's Avatar
    Posts
    291 Posts
    Global Posts
    292 Global Posts
    #4  
    I really don't understand. The Verizon website:

    http://www.vzwshop.com/treo700w/

    Says it has 128 MB Memory.
    That means it is only external memory. That could be argued as misleading or false advertising. I would have definitely felt hamstrung if I had bought one thinking it had 128 MB.
  5. nuflat's Avatar
    Posts
    294 Posts
    Global Posts
    321 Global Posts
    #5  
    Yes, and when you have your cursor on the 128 mb memory part, on the diagram of the phone, it highlights the memory card slot.
  6. d1hamby's Avatar
    Posts
    291 Posts
    Global Posts
    292 Global Posts
    #6  
    When you put your cursor on the bluetooth it highlights the infrared port. I guess I am supposed to know that the 128MB memory is the memory card, but why doesn't it say 2GB instead. That would give me the right impression of what memory they were refering to. They just want to be misleading, and open themselves up to lawsuits, to make their lawyers richer.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by d1hamby
    I really don't understand. The Verizon website:

    http://www.vzwshop.com/treo700w/

    Says it has 128 MB Memory.
    That means it is only external memory. That could be argued as misleading or false advertising. I would have definitely felt hamstrung if I had bought one thinking it had 128 MB.
    Memory: 128MB (60MB user accessible) non volatile

    This information is taking from the description on palm.com LINK

    Remember that the 128MB Storage Memory is like a hard drive. On the "hard drive" the OS is stored so that takes up memory, leaving 60 MB of Storage Memory to save files and information on.

    Storage Memory = ROM
    Program Memory = RAM
  8.    #8  
    Perceptions....correct. That leaves you with about 60 mb of ROM or "hard drive" storage. The phone then only has 32 mb of RAM before you boot up and load the OS and PIMs. After those are loaded most people have around 10-15 mb free RAM. I did not see any stats on the RAM on the is phone on the PALM site at all, unless I simply just missed it.
  9. #9  
    Does anyone know how to make TCPMP the default player?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Katahdin
    Does anyone know how to make TCPMP the default player?
    Run TCPMP
    Go to Options - Settings - Select Page - File Associated -
    Note: Do not set Mpeg Audio to TCPMP as the default player. The reason is that WM5 uses WMP10 to play system sounds and ringtones. If you do set it to TCPMP it will not play those system sounds.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perceptions
    Memory: 128MB (60MB user accessible) non volatile

    This information is taking from the description on palm.com LINK

    Remember that the 128MB Storage Memory is like a hard drive. On the "hard drive" the OS is stored so that takes up memory, leaving 60 MB of Storage Memory to save files and information on.

    Storage Memory = ROM
    Program Memory = RAM
    I noticed the first day this page was up that they did not list the RAM. So today I finally dug through loads of contact pages to finally find a link to email them the following question:

    On the Treo 700w product spec page ( http://web.palm.com/products/smartph...0w/specs.jhtml ) under the memory section you say:

    "128MB (60MB user accessible) non-volatile".

    This covers the amount of storage. But then you never mention the amount of RAM available. Is this an oversight in the specs page or where else can I see this valuable information?

    Thank you for your help.
    I will post here their response as soon as I get it back.
  12. #12  
    I was just thinking of something....It seems as though noone has confirmed the Palm of only having 32 MB of RAM. What if the device really has 64 MB of RAM?

    Here is my theory on it:

    When the HTC Wizard (Qtek 9100/K-JAM) launched it was confirmed as 64 MB of RAM. The initial shipped ROM's (OS) had 50 MB of user accessible RAM. When loaded up the device had about 30 MB of RAM available for use. Well long story short the device was slow, very slow.

    A new ROM has been put out by Qtek. Now the device only has 44.08 MB of user accessible RAM. After loading up their is about 26 MB of RAM available. The device is much quicker now.

    I have not heard anyone complain about how slow the 700w has been. What if Palm had the Treo tweaked to only have 25.48 of RAM accessible. The extra RAM not available to the end user works as a buffer. More buffer, less slowdowns.

    What if the ROM only limits so much RAM to be avaliable? Lets say for a moment that the Treo does have a 32 MB RAM and PPCTechs did do a successful upgrade, but due to OS impose limitations it will not use the extra RAM? Or the Treo really does have a 64 MB of chip and all PPCTechs did unknowingly is swap out one 64MB chip for another?

    In my now curiousity/fascination/obsession with getting to the bottom of this TreoGate I have emailed PPCTechs to see if they can confirmed that RAM in the Treo 700w was a 32 MB chip.

    I think I will visit my local Verizon store to see if they have a Treo 700w I can play with.
    Last edited by Perceptions; 01/15/2006 at 01:28 PM.
  13. Cartman's Avatar
    Posts
    700 Posts
    Global Posts
    879 Global Posts
    #13  
    I think its odd how when they replaced the 32MB DRAM in a 700w and started it up it still only showed 25MB's of available RAM.

    It would be funny if they actually replaced one 64MB DRAM for another 64MB DRAM! You would think they would of checked the DRAM already in there to check its capacity.

    On a side note its not technically correct to refer to the storage portion in the device as ROM but many do. It is flash memory just like you have on your SD cards. Its also not "technically" correct to call it EEPROM or PROM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex

    On a side note its not technically correct to refer to the storage portion in the device as ROM but many do. It is flash memory just like you have on your SD cards. Its also not "technically" correct to call it EEPROM or PROM.
    You are correct Gex, but for a sake of simplicity it has become the norm.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perceptions
    Tip 2: Use a better Task Manager
    The WM5 task manager is not adequate. It is hidden away and does not close programs when you hit X

    I recommend MagicButton
    Magic Button

    This program is much better as it will close programs when you hit X. It does not take up extra real estate, allows you to mark programs that never need to be closed (such as phone, messaging)
    I have downloaded and installed Magibutton, yet when I use the "x" to close out of programs you can still see them running in the Magicbutton taskbar and they are still shown as active in the WM5 task manager. Did I miss something?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perceptions
    I was just thinking of something....It seems as though noone has confirmed the Palm of only having 32 MB of RAM. What if the device really has 64 MB of RAM?

    Here is my theory on it:

    When the HTC Wizard (Qtek 9100/K-JAM) launched it was confirmed as 64 MB of RAM. The initial shipped ROM's (OS) had 50 MB of user accessible RAM. When loaded up the device had about 30 MB of RAM available for use. Well long story short the device was slow, very slow.

    A new ROM has been put out by Qtek. Now the device only has 44.08 MB of user accessible RAM. After loading up their is about 26 MB of RAM available. The device is much quicker now.

    I have not heard anyone complain about how slow the 700w has been. What if Palm had the Treo tweaked to only have 25.48 of RAM accessible. The extra RAM not available to the end user works as a buffer. More buffer, less slowdowns.

    What if the ROM only limits so much RAM to be avaliable? Lets say for a moment that the Treo does have a 32 MB RAM and PPCTechs did do a successful upgrade, but due to OS impose limitations it will not use the extra RAM? Or the Treo really does have a 64 MB of chip and all PPCTechs did unknowingly is swap out one 64MB chip for another?

    In my now curiousity/fascination/obsession with getting to the bottom of this TreoGate I have emailed PPCTechs to see if they can confirmed that RAM in the Treo 700w was a 32 MB chip.

    I think I will visit my local Verizon store to see if they have a Treo 700w I can play with.

    How does it feel to be correct, according to a Palm rep at CES it is 64mb Ram and 32mb accessible.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    EDIT: Please DO NOT turn this into a Memory bashing thread on either side of the fence on this issue. I would rather dedicate this thread to understanding how the 700w uses memory to help those make an educated decision.

    It would also be nice to use this thread with suggestions of how best to manage and be the most productive with the memory available.

    It can be factual, but don't slander......IN SHORT KEEP IT POSITIVE....
    \

    Mr. Hobbes, good day to you. So now that we've delved into understanding how the Treo 700 uses memory, what do we do now? I think the best way to manage the available RAM is simply to "manage" what you have running in the background via the "Settings-Memory-Running Programs List." Unless their is some hack that I am not familiar with it would seem most prudent to act in this way. The user also has his/her own decisions to make about what 3rd party applications he/she intends to run. It seems as though the WM5 OS handles memory management in a most effective and efficient way, I yet to get bogged down by low memory but then again I don't run any more than 3 programs at any time. The best way to manage the RAM is to do so via the program management program listed above. If not that perhaps this "Magic X" program that some have suggested.

    Goodlink is my only 3rd party app that I have installed and so far so good given my needs. Will I eventually run out of RAM somewhere along the way? Probably so. Has it happened to me yet? No.

    I also think that any suggestion should be suited to the general public and not just those "power users" that are out there. Registry hacks and the like while perhaps helpful will go on deaf ears for many others, and those many others easily make up the majority.

    Regards
    Last edited by oalvarez; 01/16/2006 at 09:37 PM.
  18. #18  
    MemMaid looks useful and has been suggested by many. It does a lot more than the built-in manager.

    http://www.handango.com/PlatformProd...oductId=123995

    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    Mr. Hobbes, good day to you. So now that we've delved into understanding how the Treo 700 uses memory, what do we do now?
    We find out what is really happening. If Palm did install 64 RAM and did limit it to 32 available to the customer, then was it limited via hardware....which maybe PCtech can help out with....or is limited via one of their many software tweaks Palm did for the Treo? If it was software, it is an OS alteration or a 3rd party software they added? If it is software then we have an angle to to find a way around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    I also think that any suggestion should be suited to the general public and not just those "power users" that are out there.
    From a marketing point of view, your goal should be to include as many people in your user base as possible and not a goal to limit it. Power users are a good group to aim to satisfy, because if you can meet their demands, then you have a tool that will meet a vastly larger group. If you aim low for nonPower Users, it is harder to up the device to satisfy the ones that need more power. If you aim for those who do need more power, then it will also include those who don't.

    And again we are not talking about over the top specs, just the industry standard for the last 18 months for any WM phone.....just the basic always expected amount of RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    Registry hacks and the like while perhaps helpful will go on deaf ears for many others, and those many others easily make up the majority.
    Are you interested to see if there is a way to increase the memory or are you simply happy to accept it for what it is? We are simply trying to find out what Palm really did, to see if we can give the user full use of the specs he/she actually paid for. If there ends up being a hack available to increase the Treo 700w's memory by doubling it with an added 32 mb of RAM, I would be willing to bet a King Sized Snickers candy bar that word would spread on the net and among Treo owners pretty good.
  20.    #20  
    Still waiting for Palm's response

Posting Permissions