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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    so for you the bigger and better screen coupled with the increased memory did it for you. that's wonderful! you found a device that fits you.

    so, that one program that you ran; what was it? must have been a very powerful program if you didn't have anything else running in the background. very impressive i must add.
    It can very easily happen on a WM05 device with only 32 mb of RAM to start with before the OS and PIM are loaded. Here is a little bit about WM05 memory and why all other WM05 devices have 64 mb of RAM:

    RAM

    So the ram inside the Pocket PC is now dedicated to running programs. So if you attempt to run multiple programs that are "hogs" like you used to in Windows Mobile 2003, they may not run or the operating system may close some of them. Users should be aware that the 32mb size limitation for a single program still applies to Windows Mobile 5.0 applications. The memory management for programs still applies as well where the operating system flushes pages of programs that are no longer needed, thus optimizing the use of ram in the system for other programs to execute.

    http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/5.0/...management.htm
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 01/13/2006 at 04:34 AM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    How many programs can you actually use at the same time, effectively and efficiently? Let me think: I am on the phone, I have to look up an email address, then I have to jump on the internet to find an answer to some question, then open an excel spreadsheet to find that one cell-reference amongst thousands of them while browsing a Word document to find some other reference to cut and copy into another Word document, while taking a picture of some object that needs to be immediately sent while text messaging another?

    I just need to read email, browse the net, and speak on the phone. If i can successfully do all three of those things "at the same time" I need to quit my job and go to the school of Wizardry. Imagine trying to do all of those while driving!

    c'mon folks, the device works plenty well for most of us who can wait to get back to work or open a laptop. all of this memory speak is phooey.
    Again...just because someone elses needs are different than yours personally does not invalidate them. It does not make them a bunch of phooey because someone else just might need to do a little more than you do.

    As the title of the thread hints at....Because my needs require that I need to have 64 mb of memory does not make me a Treo 700w hater....or anyone else for that matter. If so, I should leave this forum right now and never answer another post again here.

    Here is how I responded to the same claim on another thread from oalvarez:

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    You may not have the need to fully utilitize what these devices can (or should be able to) do, but there are many of us who do. It doesn't make one person wrong or the other better. It is just a matter of meeting the needs of the demographics a phone like this attracts. I do actually find my self in situations quite often when I am running all of the following at one time:
    • Pocket Informant -- Calendar PIM
    • WebIs Mail -- Email Client
    • Pocket Plus -- Gives many addons for WM short sightedness like actually having X close programs instead of minizing, able to browse in multi windows, etc...
    • PocketBreeze -- easy email and calendar overview
    • PocketContacts -- fastest way to dial on a WM this side of the Mississippi River!
    • PIE -- More often than not to look up a retail location or office address on their corp site
    • iGuidance GPS -- So I can find the address I just looked up
    • Pocket Express -- To find a local person's contact information in 411
    • My Converter Pro -- Calculator
    • Phone -- Gotta catch those calls that come in
    • ClearVue Worksheet -- While talking on the phone, reviewing those numbers in the spreadsheet my boss just emailed me .
    • BugMe -- Need to scribble down a note during that same phone call with my boss and I just can't find a pen and paper.
    • iPod Clone -- Then at times I have my FM mod plugged into the headset jack and I am also playing my gig collection of MP3s I have on my phone while I am driving using my GPS.
    When I am on the road I am constantly in situations in just the course of doing my normal responsibilities of my job having all of these open at once. I have been doing it on WM devices for 14 months now without a single thought that I couldn't.....and they can do it. There shouldn't be a lowering of expectations that they shouldn't be able to do what models released 1 year and 4 months ago can do, IMHO.

    If you have 64 mb of memory to run the programs in, there is no problem doing this. I do feel that Palm short sheeted the Treo in the memory department....but that is nothing more than own personal opinion.

    I do not own a Treo 700w, but I am actively trying to help those who do, as I may find myself interested in the next updated version as they hopefully offer the tools I need for the demands of my job. So there is an invested interest in finding out what this phone does well AND what it's short coming are so hopefully we can try to address them.
    Basically, just because ones needs may exceed what the Treo 700w can do, that simply means this phone is not for them personally.....nothing more. It also does not mean that this is not an awesome phone. Or that it is not the perfect phone for the guy sitting next to him.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 01/13/2006 at 03:53 AM.
  3. #43  
    you still don't get it man, you are running the programs "at the same time" but you still have to leave it & put another one on the screen this is the same as palm. I read an email, type in docs to go & go back to phone - well it behaves the same as this windows 5 except i don't have to remember to close them out. YOU CANNOT VIEW MORE THAN ONE APP ON THE SCREEN AT A TIME so this apps running in background is pointless... does anyone here get what I am saying?
  4. #44  
    I do. That's how I keep ending up with 4 or 5 programs running. Although I'm moving between usually 3, yes only 1 can be used at a time on the screen. At least on MY device.

    Then I usually forget to manually close the ones I'm actually done with until I look at the memory list and see 5 progs running.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo
    Scott R has a point; it doesn't matter how many apps I can "run in the background" because with such a small screen you will not have multiple windows open. in which case the Treo 650 does the same thing in fucntion. You "leave" a program & you come back to it. The same way the Treo 700 works. I see no dang benefit with having programs open in the background. I see a downfall - slowing down your Treo because it makes you manually close all these programs. well how the hell am I supposed to keep track of what programs I have used when I ma onto the next three?! Again on a computer I can physically see which windows I have there & what is open. This running in bacground crap is... crap. it is not good for handheld...
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo
    you still don't get it man, you are running the programs "at the same time" but you still have to leave it & put another one on the screen this is the same as palm. I read an email, type in docs to go & go back to phone - well it behaves the same as this windows 5 except i don't have to remember to close them out. YOU CANNOT VIEW MORE THAN ONE APP ON THE SCREEN AT A TIME so this apps running in background is pointless... does anyone here get what I am saying?
    I do...but I don't think you do. On a WM device, For example I can start to load a web page. Then I look up a number in a spreadsheet while the webpage in the background is loading. In the mean time my GPS program is running keeping track of where my co-worker is driving so we do not miss our exit on the freeway with my iBlue BT GPS unit. Since we are using the GPS I had my Phone in a windshield mount, so I was using my Think Outside BT keyboard and BT mouse to navigate and type on the phone. All this time we are playing MP3s and sending them to the rental car's radio via my FM mod. At the same time my email program is running in the background and just notified me I got an important email from my boss. After I am done reading it (while listening to the MP3s), I switch back to the web page that is now fully loaded (see it was working while I was doing the other stuff). My co-worker asks me to look up a phone number a local contact of his that he forgot the phone number for, so I load up PocketExpress to use 411 to find the numer and since I cannot find a pen, I use BugMe to write down the phone number I found with Pocket Express. I then use one of my Wisbar utility's task switcher that is running and I go back to the GPS program that has been constantly keeping track of our progress this whole time in the background to verify that we still have 2.76 miles until our exit on the right.

    So in this real life example that happened to me less than 30 days ago I was using all of the following software at the same time very effectively while still only viewing each one at a time:
    • SPB Pocket Plus -- allowed me to open more than one PIE window at a time
    • PIE -- Pulling up a webpage, multiple windows loading at the same time
    • Media Player -- MP3s
    • iGuidance -- GPS voice prompt direction software
    • Pocket Informant -- PIM
    • WebIs Mail -- Email
    • Wisbar -- Graphical enhanced interface offering cascading menus and task manager
    • Phone -- always there
    • ClearVue Worksheet -- Excel Spreadsheet program
    • BugMe -- Virtual pen and paper for scribbling notes down.
    • Think Outside BT Keyboard & Mouse utility
    • Pocket Express -- Read the latest news, sports, weather, look up contacts with 411, check stocks, etc...

    Other programs I had running at the same time that I was not actively using at the time but were there if needed or working in the background:
    • Marware WeatherPanel -- Today weather plugin with current radar
    • PocketBreeze -- Today plugin summarizing email inbox and calendar at a glance
    • ContactBreeze -- Fastest way to dial on WM IMHO
    • SPB Time -- Screen saver and Alarm utility
    All of this running and I never stopped to think if I could, or if I should, only that I needed it and I did it.

    It is called multi-tasking, it often is not a hard to aquire skill....as long as you have the tools to do it.

    .
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 01/13/2006 at 04:40 AM.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo
    you still don't get it man, you are running the programs "at the same time" but you still have to leave it & put another one on the screen this is the same as palm. I read an email, type in docs to go & go back to phone - well it behaves the same as this windows 5 except i don't have to remember to close them out. YOU CANNOT VIEW MORE THAN ONE APP ON THE SCREEN AT A TIME so this apps running in background is pointless... does anyone here get what I am saying?
    When I'm running my music player (plugged into the car stereo), my GPS software (with voice directions over the stereo), and searching for an address/movie time/whatever on the web, then I am running and using 3 apps simultaneously. All three a running - task switching would be pointless. There are many similar combinations I could explain for you if you'd like. Just because you think serially doesn't mean there aren't folks already taking advantage of this capability.
  7. #47  
    I have no doubt that true multitasking support is a good thing, which Hobbes and Kupe have provided examples of. I do want to clarify a few points...
    1) A valid concern with the Treo 700w is that it may not have enough runtime memory, resulting in fewer apps being able to be run simultaneously, quicker time to a sluggish state, etc.
    2) A valid concern (IMO), with the WM OS is that you're not aware of what's running in the background at all times and so you may find that your device starts acting sluggish, requiring an added step to launch the task manager and manually kill some background apps.
    3) The Palm OS offers some level of true multitasking in addition to some pseudo-multitasking (apps saving state before you exit them and returning to that state when you return to them - which is dependent on the developer to support this). As far as true multitasking support is concerned, you can keep phone calls active in the background while doing any other task. You can also play MP3s in the background while doing other tasks. Some developers have also figured out how to check for email in the background while doing any other task. You can't have your GPS active (and voice prompts speaking) in the background while doing another task, or download a web page in the background, etc. Whether this level of multitasking is "good enough" is a decision left to a particular user based on their needs.

    Hobbes (or anyone), can you provide your expertise in the area of 3rd party apps to let me know if there's an app (preferably WM5-compatible, but you may not know that) which will simply display in a small corner of the Start bar how much runtime memory is remaining (either in number of MB or in %)? I'm thinking that could be a good gauge to use to know if you might want to / need to launch your task manager and close some background apps.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #48  
    "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black" - Henry Ford

    "Choice is good" - Rome
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl
    wow, another thread where Lady Treo talks out of her ***

    color me suprised
    This is horse hockey! The "simple answer" is not a shut down button. 32mb in a WM5 (or any Windows Mobile device) is just like Dell's bait and switch routine of low prices on desktops and notebooks with 256mb ram - you don't run Windows XP in that environment either. When you and others suggest "just hold the OK button" you are basically transforming your 700w into the 650 forcing it to do one thing at a time. Remember, even the 650 could do rudimentary multitasking by letting media files play in the background, etc.

    Why does everyone have to be an apologist for Palm and its under-powering devices with meager ram - they put much more in some models of PDA's - why scrimp on the Treos.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  10. nuflat's Avatar
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    #50  
    Well my motto with Windows has always been less is more. In the past on my PC I would download 3rd party apps etc. and find out one way or the other they caused my PC to crash or slow down. When MS started including apps into XP, (CD burning, remote control) I thought that was great because I didn't have all the other stuff slowing down my PC. If there is a program that I cannot absolutely make work the way it comes on the unit, then I will as a last resort, use a third party app. I know I might be limiting myself, but my pc and my Treo seems to run faster and less issues. I didn't have half the problems some people did/do with the 650 and memory because I was able to make use of the apps that came with the unit, but here again, different people/company have different needs.
  11. slinky's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Why does everyone have to be an apologist for Palm and its under-powering devices with meager ram - they put much more in some models of PDA's - why scrimp on the Treos.
    I agree and have said so. It's basically people who bought a device and want to rationalize why it's great as it is. I'm happy for them that they are enjoying it for the uses that they currently do right now.

    But when I hear phrases like "that's because those people stuff it up with many third parties applications" I laugh. It's not an accurate statement of the RAM limitation at all either. Nor is their lack of need to shut down other applications. It's an unfortunate fact. So long as you stick with what you got, great... I am happy. But as you put it, don't tell others, MANY whom would use third party applications because IT IS A PDA, that the phone is fine with the RAM it has.

    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo
    you still don't get it man, you are running the programs "at the same time" but you still have to leave it & put another one on the screen this is the same as palm. I read an email, type in docs to go & go back to phone - well it behaves the same as this windows 5 except i don't have to remember to close them out. YOU CANNOT VIEW MORE THAN ONE APP ON THE SCREEN AT A TIME so this apps running in background is pointless... does anyone here get what I am saying?
    What you are missing is that there is a difference between swapping a program on the screen and switching apps already loaded into memory. The former takes a much larger performance hit to close out a program, the data file that it is using which may be on an SD card and remove it from memory and then to open another application, load it to memory, and then ALSO load the file to memory which may be on an SD card. The Palm OS is designed for this kind of operation and it is much leaner. It's also not optimal either which is why it's getting reamed too. But you DEFINITELY would not want to get an OS that is built for multitasking and NOT multitask.

    It is a PDA phone. Palm should get it in spades again for underequipping the unit with RAM. Regular people should not be fooled by this attempt to market a phone as a true PDA phone if the PDA portion can't be used in the manner one would expect -- with a reasonable number of third party applications.
  12. #52  
    okay. here is the bottom line..

    what customer base palm trys to target for 700w

    if corporation? if my company gives me a treo 700w and the plan to go with it... I will be happy as a clam

    if personal ? if I am going to spend 400 bucks to buy the phone and sign up for 100 buck monthly plan? of course..i want all of the bell and whistles... no wifi and 32 mb of rams just not going to cut it.
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