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  1.    #1  
    My 700w is at the hands of PPCTech as of yesterday and I will find out tomorrow if the upgrade was successful. I can't release any pricing details until the upgrade is done and I get PPCTech's permission. I don't want to be the one accountable for any misleading pricing.

    I got off the phone with them earlier today and so far they seem optimistic about the progress since the memory chip they found is commonly used on other PDAs. I learned from speaking with one of the techs yesterday that when they performed an upgrade on the Treo 650, the Palm OS failed to see the rest of the new RAM. They believe this was a limitation in software since the new high-capacity chip was running fine on the Treo 650 despite not showing the full 64MB (hence the reason why they don't offer memory upgrades on Palm Treos). However, they told me that since the Treo 700w was Windows based, it "theoretically" should see all 64MB (minus the part the OS uses of course).

    PPCTech isn't guaranteeing anything at this point. My unit was the first one to arrive in their shop and they are using it as a guinea pig. Palms decision to use only 32MB RAM was pretty pathetic in my opinion and hopefully this upgrade (if successful) will bring out the true potential of my new Treo. It was difficult to hand PPCTech my new Treo, but am taking this one for the team. I have full faith on PPCTech expertise and I will keep you guys posted on the progress or result ... which ever comes first.
    Last edited by Neospazzy; 01/10/2006 at 02:31 PM.
  2. #2  
    Thanks hopefully this will work... I have to reboot my Treo 700w every once in a while because it runs out of memory and extra 32MB of RAM assuming the OS will address and use it would be awsome. I for one will be looking forward to hearing your results.

    Doug
  3. #3  
    agreed...this would be a very tempting upgrade. post results when you get it back! =)
  4. #4  
    Correct me if I am wrong but if files are deleted from ROM that should make more space available for programs to run on?

    So I downloaded Total Comander and had a look at the Windows directory.
    It looks so dirty its unbeliavable! There is a folder in there called FilesToBeDeleted, another folder called ExtraDumpFiles, the temp folder was full of 0 byte files and there are a whole bunch of files there that I think can be deleted.

    Also have you noticed that when you install the device and plug it in to the USB port windows recognizes it as a PROTOTYPE device? Then it quiclky flashes a bubble that says "be sure to change the hardware name" or something like that.

    How is all of this related? This tells me that those sons of good mothers were in such a rush to get this thing out the door that they didnt even spend time cleaning it up!

    I bet they will release a new ROM image soon that will be cleaned up. Will probably make more memory available one they get rid of all those garbage files etc. Their description for the fix will be something like "We fixed a bug that took up more memory than neccesary".

    The specs on their website do say that the device has a total of 128 megs, 64 user accessible. Where is the other 64? All I see is 25.45! That means that there are 38.55 megs of files in the ram folder for the OS and all OEM software and junk files. I would gladly get rid of or move the 2 meg powerpoint from ROM if that means more memory available for my programs to run on...
  5. #5  
    i am running down to ppctechs today to drop my phone off as well...see if mine has some better luck of upgrading. maybe it isn't meant to be... =)
  6. #6  
    The 650 upgrade didn't work because the 650 uses the ram chip ONLY for dbcache and pagefile use from the doc chip partition. Remember, NVFS!

    The 700w is also a NVFS style system being wm5... However windows manages it's memory much better and should see it provided they do it properly. ASK them if they can change a DOC chip (Disk On Chip), the OTHER chip in the 650...
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by akacaj
    Correct me if I am wrong but if files are deleted from ROM that should make more space available for programs to run on?

    So I downloaded Total Comander and had a look at the Windows directory.
    It looks so dirty its unbeliavable! There is a folder in there called FilesToBeDeleted, another folder called ExtraDumpFiles, the temp folder was full of 0 byte files and there are a whole bunch of files there that I think can be deleted.

    Also have you noticed that when you install the device and plug it in to the USB port windows recognizes it as a PROTOTYPE device? Then it quiclky flashes a bubble that says "be sure to change the hardware name" or something like that.

    How is all of this related? This tells me that those sons of good mothers were in such a rush to get this thing out the door that they didnt even spend time cleaning it up!

    I bet they will release a new ROM image soon that will be cleaned up. Will probably make more memory available one they get rid of all those garbage files etc. Their description for the fix will be something like "We fixed a bug that took up more memory than neccesary".

    The specs on their website do say that the device has a total of 128 megs, 64 user accessible. Where is the other 64? All I see is 25.45! That means that there are 38.55 megs of files in the ram folder for the OS and all OEM software and junk files. I would gladly get rid of or move the 2 meg powerpoint from ROM if that means more memory available for my programs to run on...
    WM5 uses persistent memory. The 128MB of ROM is where your program and OS is stored. It is a non-volatile memory, kinda like Flash memory, where you will not lose any data even if the power is completely drained. The OS and the preloaded software takes up about 68MB of it, which is why you see only 60MB on the STORAGE section of memory. The PROGRAM side of the memory uses 32MB of RAM. This is a totally different memory chip on the device that requires power at all times to operate. The "64MB usable" that was advertised by Palm and Verizon is on the ROM side, not RAM. You can't allocated ROM to use as RAM in these devices (a la "virtual memory"), at least not to my knowledge!

    Early versions of WM2003 and older OSes had everything stored in RAM, hence the infamous "Program/Storage slider" in the memory settings. Also those older devices didn't have enough (or any) ROM, thus those devices could not be upgraded to WM5. Thus these older devices loses all data when the power is drained completely.

    WM5 uses RAM like how Windows uses RAM. All the programs that are in use gets copied from ROM to RAM. The Treo 700w allocated about 8MB of the 32MB from the get-go to reserve for the OS, which is why you see only 24MB. Then the Treo loads in about 12-14MB of PIM and other programs as well, hence you only get 10MB to use when the OS is fully loaded up and ready to go. This allocation of memory is believed to be the reason why the Treo 700w seems so "zippy" and fast. But if you tried loading up big websites or run multiple maps on your GPS software, you will realize that you will hit a wall with only 10MB at your arsenal. This limitation is what prompted me to have the RAM portion increased to 64MB.

    Increasing the memory from 32MB RAM to 64MB RAM SHOULD give me about 40+MB (instead of 10MB) of RAM to play with assuming the initial OS allocation, PIM, and startup programs takes the same amount of memory as before. Hope this makes sense.
    Last edited by Neospazzy; 01/10/2006 at 04:09 PM.
  8. #8  
    Ah that makes perfect sense, the PPC2003 style is what lead me to believe that its possible. In any case they have to clean up the damn thing. I cant stand the fact that when I installed my device it said that it was a prototype. I paid almost $700 for this phone last thing i want to know is that its a prototype.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by akacaj
    Ah that makes perfect sense, the PPC2003 style is what lead me to believe that its possible. In any case they have to clean up the damn thing. I cant stand the fact that when I installed my device it said that it was a prototype. I paid almost $700 for this phone last thing i want to know is that its a prototype.
    Agreed. Palm's reason for using only 32MB of RAM and not 64MB is beyond me!
  10. plucas's Avatar
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    #10  
    Hello,

    I hope this upgrade works. My 700w does get very slow at times.
    Thanks,

    plucas
  11. #11  
    Why stop at 64MB? Is there 128MB available?

    Can they replace the screen with a higher res one?
  12.    #12  
    Just got off the phone with them for a status update. The memory module removal is a bit trickier than they anticipated and I guess two of their techs maybe pulling off an overtime to finish the job. They said that I should know by tomorrow before noon with the results. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
  13. #13  
    I feel like I am sitting in the waiting room waiting to hear from the doctor how surgery went!!!
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by orrgroup
    Why stop at 64MB? Is there 128MB available?
    I'm sure hoping this upgrade is a success, but it will be interesting to see the impact on battery life. Was Palm being cheap, or did they make a tradeoff to get longer life? Assuming you could fit 128 or 256 in there, I imagine it wouldn't be worth it.
  15. #15  
    Do you want the honest answer or the PRPRPR $answer$?
  16. #16  
    Hilarious! I think I know, unless we all of a sudden see a huge battery life hit in which case perhaps they chose the lesser of two evils? But I'm 99% certain they were just being cheap. How incredibly shortsighted. Network admins everywhere have to be thinking twice about adopting this thing on an enterprise level, the delay in MSFP doesn't help. A shame really, because this is otherwise an amazing phone, certainly better than I expected considering it is Palm's first crack at the new OS. Samsung i600, i730, even Treo 650 seemed to suffer larger numbers of issues early in their lives.
  17.    #17  
    According to some reviews about the RAM upgrades done by PPCTechs, they saw an IMPROVEMENT in battery life! Figure that out!
  18. #18  
    Less draw on power on the CPU?
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Less draw on power on the CPU?
    Makes sense to me, Hobbes. Less memory swapping = Lighter CPU load, perhaps?
  20. #20  
    Where can PPCTechs be found, please? I may need them myself.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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