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  1. slinky's Avatar
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    #41  
    1) Having had a Smartphone, I can tell you that the system "knowing" how to handle open apps wasn't exactly true in reality although it was in theory and marketing material. I found myself having to force quit on numerous occasions.

    2) Not having a lot of RAM built in means there is little ability to handle the increasing RAM requirements of third party apps.

    3) If you're telling us (and some are) that you don't need third party apps, then perhaps you don't need a PDA and a phone, which this is supposed to be. PDA's are built with the expectation that third party apps will be installed. After all, the bare bones contacts (especially POS) are usually so ****-poor that it's a given they will be replaced.

    4) The fact that NOBODY else manufactures their PDA phones with 32MB or RAM should tell you something. Actually, it should scream at you. While I've been told that 256MB of RAM should be able to run Windows XP I've never found it working successfully. I can't imagine that a PPC device will run *as designed* as well with half the RAM of most current devices.

    5) I remember the upgrades for Smartphones like the i600. When the latest and greatest system software comes out, you WILL be sorry having only 32MB or RAM because the requirements ALWAYS go up and never down.
  2. #42  
    The memory is either a significant problem or I have a defective device or a horrible memory leak. I have all of one third-party app installed--TrafficEdge--and what follows is based upon a soft reset without running TrafficEdge. After a soft reset, I'm at about 11 MB of program memory free. That seems to go down and as soon as I get my first "push" email (ala the corporate user out of the box with Exchange Active Sync), my free memory is down to about 6 MB. I can shut off every running program by holding down OK and I don't get above 6.7 MB.

    Earlier today I tried to browse to this forum and the thing slowed to a crawl. I was under 2 MB. I had Pocket Outlook running and nothing else. Gave up and had to reset. Lord only knows how it would work if I were also trying to run Windows Media Player and Pocket Informant.

    Bottom line: my memory starts poor and gets worse, and closing apps doesn't do much. I sure hope something can be done because this is a great little device otherwise. As a phone it is crystal clear, the today screen combines the best of the POS and the Smartphone OS, I love it. I want it to work.
  3. #43  
    i had the same problems as much as i like this phone the lack of memory is why it went back for the xv6700 more memory bigger screen i just hope it works lol
  4. #44  
    I've been using the PPC-6600 (sprints version of the phone) for 14 months now and I am still impressed with it....even when comparing it to phones 1 year and 4 months younger!
  5.    #45  
    ntaylor and slinky:


    i don't use a treo 700 nor a 650 nor a 600...i did use them at one time....i currently use a ppc 6601 which i despise given its bulky form factor and weight (convergence shouldn't come at the expense at looking like you have a brick stuffed into your trouser/coat pocket. it's funny how some of you are, the crux/basis of this thread was simply "what programs/how many are some of you running CONCURRENTLY that YOU NEED TO HAVE RUNNING CONURRENTLY that worry you so.....i enjoy my ppc6601 for what it is able to do, not what it is able not to (it's just too big and heavy FOR ME). what i do believe is that some of you try to make these little machines do what they're not meant to do, but some people will be hard-heads no matter what. if you can't afford alternative means, i don't care, but don't try and make these devices be what they're not meant to be. you can only do so much with them given their limitations. that's why there are still laptops and desktops in the world, as well as dumbed down cell-phones. that's why automobile manufacturers offer gps/navigation units.....watching movies on your treo 700 240x240??? is that why some of you buy these handhelds?

    my handheld allows me to speak on the phone, read my emails (in a non=condensed format), utilize excel/word/pdf files, browse the internet and listen to mp3's.

    does the treo 700 not allow for this?

    remember, i don't even own a t700. i just find it amusing how many non-t700 folk like to nit-pick it to the point of making it a non-usable device (while promolgating their own).
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    i receive so many emails/bloomberg messages that my "extended" battery on my ppc6601 doesn't even last 1/2 day. should you need to carry multiple batteries on your person? maybe, but that's just not for me. i understand fully the importance of battery life, what i was implying was that if you were so worried about ram i'd hate to see what happens when you run out of battery life (as opposed to ram). listen, i have a cure for you: learn to press the ok button to cycle through and close your programs, it's not that hard to do.
    On my device, they need to be actually shut down manually, not just exited by OK, because they run constantly. They are on the list of running programs every time, even though I did press OK. And this is where the problem still lies. They are eating RAM in the background. On a low RAM device, I still don't think it's a good thing.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    On my device, they need to be actually shut down manually, not just exited by OK, because they run constantly. They are on the list of running programs every time, even though I did press OK. And this is where the problem still lies. They are eating RAM in the background. On a low RAM device, I still don't think it's a good thing.
    fair enough. maybe it's too hard for some of you to shut the programs down or soft reset the device. all i know is that my devices work with all that i have throw at them (i don't use mine as a gps as i don't need to). you and some others are obviously using yours as in-dash gps, laptop, and desktop replacements....i don't need to. all i want is a device that doesn't weigh a ton in pocket and whose battery lasts for more than 6 hours.

    thanks for the candid and honest remarks
  8. #48  
    What did you mean earlier when you said I can't operate my device successfully? I never said that. All I was worried about was memory usage with programs constantly open.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    what i do believe is that some of you try to make these little machines do what they're not meant to do, but some people will be hard-heads no matter what. if you can't afford alternative means, i don't care, but don't try and make these devices be what they're not meant to be. you can only do so much with them given their limitations. that's why there are still laptops and desktops in the world, as well as dumbed down cell-phones. that's why automobile manufacturers offer gps/navigation units.....watching movies on your treo 700 240x240??? is that why some of you buy these handhelds?

    my handheld allows me to speak on the phone, read my emails (in a non=condensed format), utilize excel/word/pdf files, browse the internet and listen to mp3's.
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    all i know is that my devices work with all that i have throw at them (i don't use mine as a gps as i don't need to). you and some others are obviously using yours as in-dash gps, laptop, and desktop replacements....i don't need to. all i want is a device that doesn't weigh a ton in pocket and whose battery lasts for more than 6 hours.
    You may not have the need to fully utilitize what these devices can (or should be able to) do, but there are many of us who do. It doesn't make one person wrong or the other better. It is just a matter of meeting the needs of the demographics a phone like this attracts. I do actually find my self in situations quite often when I am running all of the following at one time:
    • Pocket Informant -- Calendar PIM
    • WebIs Mail -- Email Client
    • Pocket Plus -- Gives many addons for WM short sightedness like actually having X close programs instead of minizing, able to browse in multi windows, etc...
    • PocketBreeze -- easy email and calendar overview
    • PocketContacts -- fastest way to dial on a WM this side of the Mississippi River!
    • PIE -- More often than not to look up a retail location or office address on their corp site
    • iGuidance GPS -- So I can find the address I just looked up
    • Pocket Express -- To find a local person's contact information in 411
    • My Converter Pro -- Calculator
    • Phone -- Gotta catch those calls that come in
    • ClearVue Worksheet -- Reviewing those numbers in the spreadsheet my boss just emailed me
    • BugMe -- To scribble down a note during a phone call and I just can't find a pen and paper.
    • iPod Clone -- Then at times I have my FM mod plugged into the headset jack and I am also playing my gig collection of MP3s I have on my phone while I am driving.
    When I am on the road I am constantly in situations in just the course of doing my normal responsibilities of my job having all of these open at once. I have been doing it on WM devices for 14 months now without a single thought that I couldn't.....and they can do it. There shouldn't be a lowering of expectations that they shouldn't be able to do what models released 1 year and 4 months ago can do, IMHO.

    If you have 64 mb of memory to run the programs in, there is no problem doing this. I do feel that Palm short sheeted the Treo in the memory department....but that is nothing more than own personal opinion.

    I do not own a Treo 700w, but I am actively trying to help those who do, as I may find myself interested in the next updated version as they hopefully offer the tools I need for the demands of my job. So there is an invested interest in finding out what this phone does well AND what it's short coming are so hopefully we can try to address them.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 01/08/2006 at 01:23 AM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    On my device, they need to be actually shut down manually, not just exited by OK, because they run constantly. They are on the list of running programs every time, even though I did press OK. And this is where the problem still lies. They are eating RAM in the background. On a low RAM device, I still don't think it's a good thing.
    I am not sure if you are aware that for what ever stupid reasoning by default when you click on the X to close a program...you are not closing the program but in reality minimizing it and keeping it in the background.

    You need a 3rd party utility that will do this. I personally use Pocket Plus on my WM03 device. There have been others with WM05 that have not a lick of trouble with it while others have. It is officially WM05 compliant...or so they say. There are other small utilities that do just this.....and their names are escaping me at the moment.

    I hope this helps.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    ntaylor and slinky:


    i don't use a treo 700 nor a 650 nor a 600...i did use them at one time....i currently use a ppc 6601 which i despise given its bulky form factor and weight (convergence shouldn't come at the expense at looking like you have a brick stuffed into your trouser/coat pocket. it's funny how some of you are, the crux/basis of this thread was simply "what programs/how many are some of you running CONCURRENTLY that YOU NEED TO HAVE RUNNING CONURRENTLY that worry you so.....i enjoy my ppc6601 for what it is able to do, not what it is able not to (it's just too big and heavy FOR ME). what i do believe is that some of you try to make these little machines do what they're not meant to do, but some people will be hard-heads no matter what. if you can't afford alternative means, i don't care, but don't try and make these devices be what they're not meant to be. you can only do so much with them given their limitations. that's why there are still laptops and desktops in the world, as well as dumbed down cell-phones. that's why automobile manufacturers offer gps/navigation units.....watching movies on your treo 700 240x240??? is that why some of you buy these handhelds?

    my handheld allows me to speak on the phone, read my emails (in a non=condensed format), utilize excel/word/pdf files, browse the internet and listen to mp3's.

    does the treo 700 not allow for this?

    remember, i don't even own a t700. i just find it amusing how many non-t700 folk like to nit-pick it to the point of making it a non-usable device (while promolgating their own).
    Many people are still going to use 3rd party software. Why do you think there are so many apps available? Because people want and are using them. Developers won't waste time making software that no one will use.

    I agree that a laptop would be far more powerful, but people aren't going to haul their's around everywhere.

    As for GPS and movie watching, there is handheld GPS software so I guess someone wants it on a handheld. Lots of people here use Tom Tom on the Treo. And WMP10 and RP are often included on handhelds so some people will watch movies off the card if they get the chance. Comes in handy on a flight, although you could load a DVD into your laptop(or watch a stored movie) but I guess some do not want the bulk of a laptop. It's all about personal preference.

    I happen to love laptops, have more than one by the way. Handhelds are just to avoid bulk but still get some work done while away from the office, or if you don't want to take the laptop with you while traveling. Yes, these are indeed convergent devices and people are using them as such. It has nothing to do with being hard-headed.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    all i want is a device that doesn't weigh a ton in pocket and whose battery lasts for more than 6 hours.
    If the 6601 isn't doing it for you, I would say look at the Treo 700w, 6700, or the i730 (or the i830 later this month).
  13. #53  
    Hobbes, If you could remember the name of a small (size) utility that can close applications when you hit the X button that would be really helpful to me. Thanks!
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I am not sure if you are aware that for what ever stupid reasoning by default when you click on the X to close a program...you are not closing the program but in reality minimizing it and keeping it in the background.

    You need a 3rd party utility that will do this. I personally use Pocket Plus on my WM03 device. There have been others with WM05 that have not a lick of trouble with it while others have. It is officially WM05 compliant...or so they say. There are other small utilities that do just this.....and their names are escaping me at the moment.

    I hope this helps.
    Yes it does, thanks! I'm looking at PP and BPP. I still haven't decided which to get. I believe they do the same things. Here's BPP, please let me know what you think. I am still leaning toward this one.

    http://www.handango.com/PlatformProd...=24948&R=24948

    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #55  
    I have never used Battery Pack Pro.....but the good thing is does say it is fully WM05 compliant. I have seen people sware by Pocket Plus while others say Battery Pack Pro is better. IMHO, it all depends on which tools suite your likings.

    For me, I perfer the tools in Pocket Plus.....but there have been issues with it reports with WM05.

    If all were equal in WM05, I don't think you could loose with either of them.
  16. #56  
    Thanks again! What tools does PP have that are better than BPP?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17.    #57  
    some of your needs are beyond mine, simple as that.

    i730? no thanks, hate the small screen and slide-out. owned it.

    treo? been there and done that, with the exception of the t700. i do like the form factor though. it's a real contender in my eyes as i don't have incredibly massive ram needs as some of you uber power users. it's not about ram for me, it's about pocketability, battery life and ease of use.

    6700? oh no, not another slide-out, turn-around handheld...please no.

    ppc 6601...own it and use it currently....want another one? i'd be happy to sell it to you. a pda that can't even handle 4 hours of use without a charge on its oem battery? not for me.

    i actually have my eyes set on the latest blacberry devices, those devices seem to do what it is what i'm looking for (less weight, smaller size, best email given that we're now running their servers, decent internet and the like). i can wait until i'm back in front of a laptop or desktop, i don't need to spend the additional time and money on handhelds to make my life that much more easy, i suppose i'm fortunate in that instance.

    enjoy your devices!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Since moving to flash RAM (persistent storage) most PPC's do not XIP (execute in place) any more.


    http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...29/498154.aspx

    You are not as informed as you think unfortunately.
    Surur since you want to get technical, I have read that blog as well as the following:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...17/494177.aspx

    http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...19/453784.aspx

    Which everyone concerned about their Treo memory should read.

    Neither of the three blogs suggest that XIP is no longer used by WM5. It simply depends on the type of memory used on the device i.e NAND or NOR as well as the OEM's decision to use it or not. From the blog you quoted "It appears that is what the OEM in question did. " he is talking about a particular device and OEM not all OEM's. As the article states it is still possible to use XIP with NOR and Persistent Storage.

    I am missinformed you said? Well I have my Treo 700 and I am happy Hasnt crashed on me yet and believe me when i tell you that i multitask with it! I can listen to music, chat on MSN, browse the web and take a crap at the same time!

    Yes I was wrong for assuming that Palm used NOR memory on the Treo 700. I should have done my research first before making that assumption. However I am not able to come up with that information yet and i dont feel like taking my phone appart to look at the memory. They used NAND on the Treo 650 so perhaps they did the same on the 700. We will find out soon enough. Anyone willing to take theirs appart? Or call palm and ask them?

    So my final answer is that execute in place still exists even in WM5! It depends on the type of memory that Palm used and if they used XIP. If they used NOR you can bet your bottom dollar that they also implemented XIP why else would they go for more expensive and slower memory?

    Quote Originally Posted by jglev
    ...There is no XIP in PPC...
    jglev, who told you that? So what you are saying is that the entire line of PPC devices does not use XIP?
  19. slinky's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    ntaylor and slinky:
    i don't use a treo 700 nor a 650 nor a 600...i did use them at one time....i currently use a ppc 6601 which i despise given its bulky form factor and weight (convergence shouldn't come at the expense at looking like you have a brick stuffed into your trouser/coat pocket.
    So is that your PDA in your pocket or are you just trying to say that you're happy to see me?

    it's funny how some of you are, the crux/basis of this thread was simply "what programs/how many are some of you running CONCURRENTLY that YOU NEED TO HAVE RUNNING CONURRENTLY that worry you so.....i enjoy my ppc6601 for what it is able to do, not what it is able not to (it's just too big and heavy FOR ME). what i do believe is that some of you try to make these little machines do what they're not meant to do, but some people will be hard-heads no matter what. if you can't afford alternative means, i don't care, but don't try and make these devices be what they're not meant to be. you can only do so much with them given their limitations. that's why there are still laptops and desktops in the world, as well as dumbed down cell-phones. that's why automobile manufacturers offer gps/navigation units.....watching movies on your treo 700 240x240??? is that why some of you buy these handhelds?
    I think you miss the point of the complaints. If Palm's Treo 700w isn't supposed to do what other comparably priced devices can do, then why buy the Treo? Those PDAs are being made more powerful and are bridging the gap between PDA and laptop -- I no longer have to bring my laptop in many situations. Watching video (not just movies) on your handheld device is here now, whether you use it or not. If other phones accomodate, then it's another area the Treo is left in the dust. Who knows what will come out in the next six months to a year too...
    my handheld allows me to speak on the phone, read my emails (in a non=condensed format), utilize excel/word/pdf files, browse the internet and listen to mp3's.
    does the treo 700 not allow for this?
    Let's start off with your myth about the screen. While 240x240 is readable, we don't need to compare how beneficial higher resolutions are for reading documents easily, especially PDF. Today it's a paltry, barely better than MS Smartphone resolution. That's not good. The fact that it's worse than old PDAs is not acceptable. If the resolution is 320 x 240 I'm not sure why the 320 wasn't chosen as the factor to work with and screen "stretched" for the vertical resolution. It's a big step down.

    Next, having concurrently running applications can be a serious boon, especially when you are trying to quickly look up information in the database for application A and utilitize application B. That's basically what a PDA is these days and has been now for a while -- something less than your laptop that still provides you with enough power for more complex, simple tasks. Considering the time the operating system may take to shut down applications and open others since MOST other devices utilize the RAM, you can also be talking about serious lag time between shutting and opening applications. The Palm OS is designed to perform that task quickly and I can't say that Windows PPC devices move as quickly or should. How about dealing with memory intensive applications that are common on handheld devices like maps, which take up a lot of memory? Moreso, how about developers who might assume that you have 64 MB of memory rather than HALF that amount? Good luck Treo 700w owners, the world doesn't revolve around your poor specifications.

    Lastly, as much as I am not a proponent of "watching movies" on the phone, I'll confess it's really been handy when traveling on a plane or even the train. MANY people actually like using the phone for this and other uses. Having a GPS option is nice. But what about reading docs while playing your MP3 player? Hmmm.... why should your brand spanking new 700w potentially be challenged by this? With footprings of operating system upgrades and applications growing, the amount of free RAM today might not seem a whole lot in 6 months from now. Add into that factor the loading of maps and other data from storage cards -- now that limited RAM can really strangle you.

    remember, i don't even own a t700. i just find it amusing how many non-t700 folk like to nit-pick it to the point of making it a non-usable device (while promolgating their own).
    Nit pick? Perhaps your not using your 600 or 650 very much or in a while has made you forget just how critically important sufficient RAM is for the smooth operation of your device and flexibility of third party applications. What you fail to appreciate is that Palm stupidly designed the 650 without sufficient RAM and less than what current models have or should have. Those of us who use the 650 have had to deal with this garbage every day and buy third party apps to deal with it too. Then Palm pulled the same shtick again by underequipping the 700w with less RAM than current models have!!! Do you think that all the other manufacturers just dumped in an abundance of RAM for their health?

    Nobody said the 700w isn't usable, just cripped and unlike the standards set by virtually every other Windows based PDA from what I'm reading. What we did say is that you have to have rocks in your head to pay top dollar for a device that is designed for what was on the market 1 year ago. While the lack of WiFi is a serious omission (and the card with no storage solution is very poor), the lack of internal RAM is a critical blow to the basic operations of the phone and, over time, this colossal act of greed and stupidity will hurt both 700w owners and Palm Treo's reputation as being always 1 year behind.
  20. jglev's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by akacaj
    jglev, who told you that? So what you are saying is that the entire line of PPC devices does not use XIP?
    Sorry, no. I should have been more clear. What I meant was that as far as I know, no presently available WM5 device can do XIP.

    I am guessing that the Treo uses NAND based on Palm using that in the 650 (and HTC using NAND in their WM5 devices). You might want to check out the FCC internal pictures of the 700 instead of dissecting your device . I tried to this morning, but the site returns and error, so it might be having problems. The device ID is: O8FJIMI.
    Jeff
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