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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    why is it that the only people that complain are those who live their lives downloading 3rd party apps and the like? again, what is it that you are "running" that NEEDS to be run, concurrently? why the need for so many of these apps? doesn't WM03/WM05 offer you enough? i just don't understand why some users are able to "slow down" their handhelds, it seems as though they're trying to use them for what they're not designed to be. i have never had any problems in the countless years of owning blackberries, treos, pocket pc's and the like. the only problems i ever read about are those stemming from 3rd party apps and the like. you browse the internet, ck your email, maybe download a pdf, and make phone calls. that's what you really do more times than not.

    again, what is it that everyone is doing that supposedly causes their handhelds to slow down? how is it that Lady Treo drains her memory so?
    3rd party apps add functionality that WM and also Palm OS "overlooked". Plus extra sometimes, like weather check, GPS, expense calculator; stuff like that. Remember, Personal Digital Assistant, we expect it to act like one, LOL!

    I could haul my laptop around everywhere though, but that is such a pain!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Is that what I have to resort to?
    How about just once a week?
    I never had to reset the 650 once a day.
    That's because the 650 resets itself for us once a day!
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Actually I don't have WM2003, but the cheapest WM5 device you can get. I got it because I wanted to see if WM5 was OK to use before I spent really big money on other devices I was eyeing. Turns out, I like it and will probably keep it. But I wish they would put out a 64MB version. I have only used the default programs. It's added programs running I'm worried about.

    As for drama, should I wait till my machine crashes due to low memory, so you can see REAL drama? Which is what I'd like to AVOID. Well on the 64MB device, I probably won't worry so much. But here's some of what I want to install on the lower RAM device:

    1. Spb Pocket Plus 3.0 AND/OR Battery Pack Pro v2.1
    2. Resco Explorer 2005 for Pocket PC
    3. WorldMate 2006 Professional Edition for Pocket PC(I may find something lighter for the lower RAM device though)
    4. SBSH PocketBreeze 5
    5. IM+ ICQ/AOL/MSN/Yahoo!/Jabber/Google Talk Mobile Instant Messenger for Pocket PC(this is a maybe)
    6. A back up program, which I can't seem to really find one for WM5 yet.
    7. I may have to install an extra email progam(not sure yet) to get email from anyone other than MSN and Hotmail.
    8. Stuff I won't realize I need until the opportunity arises.

    I will probably run a lot off the card, but they would still use up RAM while running, right? Plus I need to use internet for some of these, which means more RAM. And I will forget to shut them down one of these days, I know it. I hope you're correct that the machine will tell me to shut them down.
    with all due respect, an extra email program? sbsh pocket breeze and spb pocket plus? many seem repetitive or un-necessary. u may be a traveling professional and hardcore business user, i can say i am one of the two, and find no use in any third party apps outside of goodlink (biz supported). then again, i have a home computer if need be and a laptop if necessary. treos, blackberries, ipaqs, motoq's.....they're handheld pda's, enjoy them for what they are, not what they aren't.

    and i don't even own a treo.
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    3rd party apps add functionality that WM and also Palm OS "overlooked". Plus extra sometimes, like weather check, GPS, expense calculator; stuff like that. Remember, Personal Digital Assistant, we expect it to act like one, LOL!

    I could haul my laptop around everywhere though, but that is such a pain!

    ever heard of the internet? you can access it on almost any pda/cell device. yes, haul your laptop around, sounds like it might actually be more useful, efficient and effective for you. i pray to God that you never run out of battery life as it seems that it could wreak real havoc upon you. i think you're not giving anything a fair shake but simply trying to downplay any benefit that some new t700 user may enjoy.

    remember, i don't even own a Treo.

    be well
  5. #25  
    People who participate in these forums are the people that make other people decide to buy or not buy a product. We are technology enthusiasts. Me personally, I buy almost every single PDA or new piece of cool technology the day it comes out (or the first day I can get my hands on it). I owned every single Treo ever made and many other palm based devices as well as many windows CE based devices. I donít buy any of these devices because I need them to make my life simpler (if anything they make my life harder as I often find my self reading these forums); I buy them as toys to explore for a few months until something new grabs by attention. This is a sick disease/addiction that I can not get rid of. I have a phone that can play MP3 and even movies but I still own an MP3 player. You get the point? So every one around me knows this and trusts my judgment. When they ask me what phone should I buy, Palm owes me money for saying buy a Treo itís the best thing that hit the earth. Companies spend millions on advertising, companies who make gadgets get to charge the very people who help them spread the word 3 times as much for being their first test dummies. We find the flaws, call tech support, post in forums etc so that they can make their next version better. When the average joe goes to buy the product they pay less because they waited two months and get a better version. Where is our thank you? Where is our share? Why are you complaining about us complaining? They owe us big time!

    To anyone who didnít understand why we complain, I hope you now understand!
  6. #26  
    I thought this memory issue was overblown, but I'm a bit concerned now. I have nothing, yes NOTHING, running in the "running programs" and I'm at 7.87 MB less then 3 hours after a soft reset. Soft reset and I'm back to 11.7. My first attempt with picsel viewer or however that is spelled was a 116KB PDF file--wouldn't open, out of memory (nothing else running). Tried to start windows media, same thing.
  7. #27  
    That's why I'm waiting for an actual user of BPP to report functionality, I believe I can use that in place of the Spb Pocket Plus 3.0 and/or SBSH PocketBreeze 5. Although someone on another site claims it shuts off the backlight on their 6700. But that might be some battery saving feature, I'm not sure.

    The extra email program I said I'm not sure of. If I find I can access AOL and Yahoo easily(read and send email), I may not need it. Pocket MSN of course favors it's own MSFT email. AOL is supposed to have a download for mobile, not sure about Yahoo.

    The travel programs would come in handy though if you travel a lot. As of now, I won't put them on, but I will in the future. Probably on the card though.

    I am tied to my laptop too, don't get me wrong. But if I can lighten the load when traveling or even out on errands, I will.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    ever heard of the internet? you can access it on almost any pda/cell device. yes, haul your laptop around, sounds like it might actually be more useful, efficient and effective for you. i pray to God that you never run out of battery life as it seems that it could wreak real havoc upon you. i think you're not giving anything a fair shake but simply trying to downplay any benefit that some new t700 user may enjoy.

    remember, i don't even own a Treo.

    be well
    Dead battery wreak havoc? Yes, it does. It almost happened twice on my laptop. I did panic, but thankfully I was able to get it charged in the nick of time. I think I only had 15 min. left.

    About hauling laptops around, I did once think about getting one of those really small laptops. If they weren't about $2500(same as some full size), I might have.

    Not giving anything a fair shake? What does that mean? I'm only talking about running low on memory if you forget to shut programs down manually. And yes, I am worried until someone can tell me otherwise. Because when you get busy, you may forget that you have stuff running in the background until it's too late. Now if the machine will indeed tell you to shut down some stuff, fine.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez
    with all due respect, an extra email program? sbsh pocket breeze and spb pocket plus? many seem repetitive or un-necessary. u may be a traveling professional and hardcore business user, i can say i am one of the two, and find no use in any third party apps outside of goodlink (biz supported). then again, i have a home computer if need be and a laptop if necessary. treos, blackberries, ipaqs, motoq's.....they're handheld pda's, enjoy them for what they are, not what they aren't.

    and i don't even own a treo.
    I kind of laughed because I have a very similiar set up on my PPC-6600 that Lady Treo does. You say just use goodlink? I would love to as soon as you can get our IT dept to listen and install it. PocketBreeze and Pocket Plus gives the user totally different benifits with little or no duplication.

    When you are are on the road, flying, or driving, a desktop or laptop is not even an option or conveniently available.

    As for accessing the tools on the net, that takes time to browse to the site, etc....if you even have data access. If you are roaming while in a building shielding your cell signal, in a roaming area, etc...you can't even access the internet.

    And yes...if set up right with a good set of tools, a WM convergence device can replace a laptop while on the road for many needs. I push my WM phone to limits of laptop replacement every day....from anything from email, excel alterations, remote controlling my desktop back in my office, GPS navigation, iPod replacement with streaming audio and MP3 library, checking real time flight status, etc.....

    I can personally relate to Treo Lady's set up and why it is set up that way.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by ntaylor
    I thought this memory issue was overblown, but I'm a bit concerned now. I have nothing, yes NOTHING, running in the "running programs" and I'm at 7.87 MB less then 3 hours after a soft reset. Soft reset and I'm back to 11.7. My first attempt with picsel viewer or however that is spelled was a 116KB PDF file--wouldn't open, out of memory (nothing else running). Tried to start windows media, same thing.
    If you were browsing the net.....I would bet you a 44 oz Slurpie that it is the PIE cache that is taking up the room. Open up PIE and clear your cache and then see how much room you have.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    If you were browsing the net.....I would bet you a 44 oz Slurpie that it is the PIE cache that is taking up the room. Open up PIE and clear your cache and then see how much room you have.
    Thanks. Didn't do the trick though. I've read that email in Pocket Outlook is stored in RAM. True? There are \messaging and \messaging\attachments directories under \windows in file explorer, but I'm hesitant to go deleting stuff. I will be limiting attachment size on my syncs until I have this figured out.
  12. #32  
    Yes they are stored in memory unless you set it so all attachment are stored on the SD card. In Messanger go to Tools>>Options>>Storage>> and check "Store attachments on storage card". I also set "Empty deleted items" to "Immediately" so that I don't get a huge collection of deleted emails I forgot to clean out.

    See if that helps.
  13. #33  
    That seems to have helped on the storage memory, but I'm not so concerned about that. Program memory I'm down to 4.78 with nothing running...let's do a soft reset...starts out about 12.65 but literally watch it go down to 9 before my very eyes (did receive an email during this time, so activesync and outlook both opened). Hobbes, I appreciate all the help; you've been a great resource and I'm optimistic this thing is going to work out. Seems like a better debut so far than the i600, i730, or Treo 650 where the complaints were legion at first.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Dead battery wreak havoc? Yes, it does. It almost happened twice on my laptop. I did panic, but thankfully I was able to get it charged in the nick of time. I think I only had 15 min. left.

    About hauling laptops around, I did once think about getting one of those really small laptops. If they weren't about $2500(same as some full size), I might have.

    Not giving anything a fair shake? What does that mean? I'm only talking about running low on memory if you forget to shut programs down manually. And yes, I am worried until someone can tell me otherwise. Because when you get busy, you may forget that you have stuff running in the background until it's too late. Now if the machine will indeed tell you to shut down some stuff, fine.
    i receive so many emails/bloomberg messages that my "extended" battery on my ppc6601 doesn't even last 1/2 day. should you need to carry multiple batteries on your person? maybe, but that's just not for me. i understand fully the importance of battery life, what i was implying was that if you were so worried about ram i'd hate to see what happens when you run out of battery life (as opposed to ram). listen, i have a cure for you: learn to press the ok button to cycle through and close your programs, it's not that hard to do.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I kind of laughed because I have a very similiar set up on my PPC-6600 that Lady Treo does. You say just use goodlink? I would love to as soon as you can get our IT dept to listen and install it. PocketBreeze and Pocket Plus gives the user totally different benifits with little or no duplication.

    When you are are on the road, flying, or driving, a desktop or laptop is not even an option or conveniently available.

    As for accessing the tools on the net, that takes time to browse to the site, etc....if you even have data access. If you are roaming while in a building shielding your cell signal, in a roaming area, etc...you can't even access the internet.

    And yes...if set up right with a good set of tools, a WM convergence device can replace a laptop while on the road for many needs. I push my WM phone to limits of laptop replacement every day....from anything from email, excel alterations, remote controlling my desktop back in my office, GPS navigation, iPod replacement with streaming audio and MP3 library, checking real time flight status, etc.....

    I can personally relate to Treo Lady's set up and why it is set up that way.
    i didn't say just use goodlink, i asked if she was using goodlink as it is a memory hog. i also didn't understand the need for "multiple" email programs, i thought one email program would usually do the trick. as for laptop usage, of course you can't use a desktop or laptop while driving, but you absolutely can while flying (laptop). no doubt that a handheld can replace some aspects of a laptop, but not all. at the end of the day, everyone has different needs, as for myself, my handheld gets me by until i'm back in front of a desktop. remember, the question here was only "what is it that you are requiring your handheld to do that causes such a memory drain." that was the crux of it. from most all of Lady Treo's posts, it seems as though she is the only one that who cannot use a Treo, Blackberry, or Pocket PC device, successfully.
  16. jglev's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by akacaj
    Are you guys forgetting that the programs on these devices run in place? Therefore very little memory is needed to keep the program running. So most files can also be read in place no need to load to RAM so that they can be accessed. The only time that it would have to use up extra memory to open a file is if you are listening to an mp3 or opening a jpg, these type of files need to be decoded in order to be played. So with that said a program would need very little memory to hold its variables etc. At least this is how I understand it.
    That's a myth. Maybe some can be run in place (I don't know of any), but virtually all need to be copied to RAM. That is why even after a soft rest, the RAM goes down. Windows and the PIMs get loaded into RAM. Think of the storage ROM as the hard drive on your desktop computer. Can you run any programs in place on you hard drive? No, they need to be loaded into RAM.

    [Flame Resistant Suit On] I love the way people here seem to always be making excuses for the stupid decisions made by Palm as if Palm can do no wrong. The truth is, I cannot comprehend why they would put only 32mb of RAM into this device (unless they intentionally want this device to under perform). Even if you never install any third party software, just try running the included apps at the same time. You will run out of memory. The whole point of WM is the ability to multitask, which you wonít be able to do with 32mb of RAM. I am sorry, but there is no justification for it. Period. Palm has a bad habit of telling the customer what they need, not the customer telling Palm what they need. Remember the big memory increase in the 650 compared to the 600, remember the higher resolution camera in the 650 compared to the 600, remember the improved resolution of the 600 screen compared to the Treo 300 and going back even further, remember when Palm told everyone we don't need a color screen even after all other PDAs on the market had migrated to color. There is an old saying around these boards: "Palm never fails to disappoint." OK, now I am taking off my Flame Resistant Suit.
    Jeff
  17. #37  
    I've had mine two full days now, and I'm coming from a hx4700/Motorola V710 combo. I've seen 4 out of memory errors so far, eWallet is having sync problems with it, and a time tracking program (TimeTrackerMX) just plain won't work, albeit that may be a WM5 compatibility problem. I'll give this a day or two more, I'm trying to get past the screen real estate differences from what I'm used to, but right now I'm not overly impressed. Interesting gadget but not sure it's the right choice for a person that uses the PDA portion of it heavily.
    http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/foru...r=asc&start=20

    This is worrying.

    Surur
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jglev
    That's a myth. Maybe some can be run in place (I don't know of any), but virtually all need to be copied to RAM. That is why even after a soft rest, the RAM goes down. Windows and the PIMs get loaded into RAM. Think of the storage ROM as the hard drive on your desktop computer. Can you run any programs in place on you hard drive? No, they need to be loaded into RAM.
    A hard drive and ROM or RAM are two different things. The only reason you cant run programs from the hard drive is becaues of speed. HD would be way too slow. You cant compare a traditional computer to a PDA they just dont work the same, they are two different operating systems. Just because its called windows mobile it has no relation to windows xp besides the maker which is Microsoft.
    So you are mistaking what a program needs RAM for. When you install a program in your PDA and then you run it. It will execute in place, it will only need extra memory to do its work. i.e to store temporary variables, decoding information from files, etc. When you force quit the program or Soft Reset your device, the memory used by the open program will be released. Just think about it! What is the point of loading a program into memory when it already is in memory? You dont have to be a computer scientist to understand that! I am not sticking up for palm, I too agree that the treo could have used more memory. The only reason they left it out is because the want to leave room for a better device where i can go and spend more money on.
  19. #39  
    Since moving to flash RAM (persistent storage) most PPC's do not XIP (execute in place) any more.

    First, why not XIP? Most storage systems can't be read and written to and the same time. NOR flash can't, NAND flash can't, hard drives can't, and most RAM can't. Typically you access these things through a driver which queues up the requests and guarantees that it doesn't do a read and write at the same time. When you're XIPing, however, it's extremely difficult to enforce this. In WM2003 SE, all you ever did was read from the flash. So it was easy to XIP. WM5 added persistent storage. Now you're writing user data to the flash. XIPing is, in the end, a method of reading code directly from flash. If the code that's writing the user data is being read from the flash, you're reading and writing at the same time. There are ways around this, but it's a very challenging problem. A less error-prone solution would be to stop XIPing. It appears that is what the OEM in question did.
    http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...29/498154.aspx

    You are not as informed as you think unfortunately.

    Surur
  20. jglev's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by akacaj
    A hard drive and ROM or RAM are two different things. The only reason you cant run programs from the hard drive is becaues of speed. HD would be way too slow. You cant compare a traditional computer to a PDA they just dont work the same, they are two different operating systems. Just because its called windows mobile it has no relation to windows xp besides the maker which is Microsoft.
    So you are mistaking what a program needs RAM for. When you install a program in your PDA and then you run it. It will execute in place, it will only need extra memory to do its work. i.e to store temporary variables, decoding information from files, etc. When you force quit the program or Soft Reset your device, the memory used by the open program will be released. Just think about it! What is the point of loading a program into memory when it already is in memory? You dont have to be a computer scientist to understand that! I am not sticking up for palm, I too agree that the treo could have used more memory. The only reason they left it out is because the want to leave room for a better device where i can go and spend more money on.
    First, I was just using an analogy regarding ROM and HD. The analogy holds. There is no XIP in PPC. See Surur's post above and the MS Blog link. In an ideal world, we would have XIP. The other thing is WM leaks memory like crazy. Closing most apps (I am talking about really shutting it down, not hitting the x button) doesn't release all of it's RAM. Only a soft reset does.
    Jeff
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