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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I don't think EVDO is overrated at all..............It is awesome.

    It is not yet widely supported, unless you are in a one of the major metro areas.....which is why I still think WIFI is a great built in option.
    I was in San Diego a few weeks ago for the SANS computer security conference and I wasn't impressed with EVDO at all. Also, the city of Rochester is 60 miles to the east of us here in Buffalo and they have EVDO as well. When I was out that way, EVDO did not seem much faster than 1X at all. I had a RAZR with me too and VCAST had to keep buffering its video clips every 5 seconds. Maybe Rochester isn't up to full speed yet, but wasn't San Diego a launch city? It wasn't that great there either.

    While VZW isn't deployed in my area yet, Sprint sppears to be. Maybe I'll go to a Spint store and try out a display unit. But it seems to me the theoretical speeds of EVDO aren't jiving even close to the actual ones. 2MB theoretical, 400kbps-700kbps normal. Even if I was getting only 300 in my tests, while on paper it sounds good, in practice it was merely adequate.
  2. #22  
    Keep in mind that Ev-DO will still have low latency speeds compared to DSL or a cablemodem. This is the "wait time" between requesting a web page and when it starts to get transmitted. Once it starts sending the page, Ev-DO will send the data very fast. So, if you're accessing mobile-friendly websites, you're not going to notice a huge improvement with Ev-DO. You'll notice it the most when you're uploading/downloading single large files.

    Here's my 2 cents...when I had my PPC-6700 I was disappointed with the lack of a dramatic speed improvement when accessing mobile-friendly sites. Because of the low screen resolutions of all of these devices, accessing desktop-optimized sites is an unpleasant experience, even if I can download it faster, because of the need to scroll right/left. The other advantage of having an Ev-DO capable smartphone would be to hook it up via DUN to my laptop, but with Verizon's disabling of DUN, that advantage is lost.

    Would I still like Ev-DO? You betcha. More speed, even if it isn't as dramatic an improvement as I'd like, is always appreciated. But I personally wouldn't want to pay the fairly high price Verizon charges for their data plans and only be able to take advantage of it on a device with a 240x240 screen.

    Personally, I'm hoping that rumors of a Palm OS 320x320 Sprint 700p with Ev-DO come true.
    Last edited by Scott R; 01/08/2006 at 02:16 PM.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  3. #23  
    This will be not only a good device but a terrifc one when (1) there is more memory and (2) WM developers exploit the 5-way navigation just like the POS developers did.

    Speed. I had speed already with my XV6600 but I understand Treo 650 users who missed that. Once you get with EVDO, you'll not want to return to 1X. The price is "is what it is". I don't like the high cost either but I use the heck out of the unlimited plan and get a decent company discount. When/if SPCS, Cingular, and/or TMO get better coverage, I'm out.

    Operating System: If VZW comes out with the 700p, you might want to get that if you are satisfied with Palm OS. OTOH, if you are ready to try out WM, the Treo 700 is a very good way to do that. You'll miss some of the POS ease-of-use but not nearly as much as you would if you got a XV6600 or (I'm guessing) the 6700. If you were a "power user", you'll quickly appreciate the fact that you won't need PowerRun or Tealalias to manage the use of SD card loaded apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I owned and loved my Treo for 10 plus months. I have had my PPC-6600 for 14 months now. I have to disagree. With a little knowledge and handy app or utility or two, I can launch a program or have my WM phone dialing a number just as fast as I could on my Treo.
    I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

    My device experience is similar to yours (Treo 600 - 6 months, XV6600 - 12 months) and I NEVER was able to have my WM phone do many essential things as fast as my Treo no matter how many tweaking I did with 3rd party code. I can't tell you how many task management apps I've tried, registered, and stopped using. Voice Command and Pocket Plus introduced a whole NEW set of problems -- sluggishness, loss of icons, memory leaks, resets, ...

    1. find a contact - this is an incredible feature from the Today screen. I don't NEED speed dials anymore. It is better than ContactBreeze (a teriffic app) because you don't need a stylus -- at all. This is improved over the 600/650.

    2. dial a number - Treos act like PHONES so you just dial using your thumb. This is improved over the 600/650 since you don't have to go to the "Phone" app to do it. I don't like how cumbersome it is to dial extensions, however. You must make a speed dial entry those kind of numbers and that wasn't necessary with the XV6600. I have about 10 conference call numbers and I have to make them speed dials.

    3. text message - do it all one-handed, no stylus needed to insert the "To" fields. It is not as good as the Treo 600/650 but it is a heck of a lot better than my XV6600! I'm just waiting for SMSPro to finally be ready.

    4. reference a memo - WM doesn't allow you to open a memo screen that JUST shows memos -- you have to wade through other stuff. I used Pocketbreeze but I still needed a stylus to get to a particular memo. I also created shortcuts and could get to them with Wizbar and other apps. With the 700w I can jump to a particular memo one-handed but it is still not as quick as with the POS memos.

    Now, that is not to say that my XV6600 doesn't do other things better than the Treo. It is essentially a mini-laptop after all. It provides a better GPS screen, DVD screen, remote access (Logmein) screen, etc. Often I didn't need a laptop to accomplish many daily work-related tasks.

    With 4 laptops (2 personal and 2 company-owned), I came to the conclusion that I needed a phone with some laptop features over a small laptop with a some phone features. The Treo 700W looks to meet my needs but I have 12 days left.
    Last edited by Beryl; 01/08/2006 at 03:34 PM.
  4. #24  
    Beryl....I fully agree. The Treo always has certain advantages of one handed use over traditional form factors for WM devices. I was speaking more generally to the misconceptions and exagerations of how "HARD" it is use WM.

    As for the software in the Treo 700w.....give it 4-6 months and all of it will be cloned one way or another for all WM devices.

    Thanks for the great feedback!
  5. #25  
    also - I keep saying this OVER and OVER - the 700 is NOT meant to be 'an upgrade' to the 650. It's a separate product line - like one person said in this thread - it's the brother to the 650, not the successor. If someone gets a 700, expecting a ton of upgrade functions from a 650, they're going to be disappointed. The point of the 700 is to get those PPC users who wouldn't go to a converged device until now, for whatever reason. And, of course, to appeal to all the IT managers out there who plan to only support WM devices for Exchange Active Sync, when they go to Exchange 2003 and SP2, and MSFP on the devices.

    The point - the 700 isn't designed or intended to woo away 650 users. It's for net new users. Of course, some/many may upgrade, but that's not the primary goal of the product.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by callinectes
    the 700W plus the new jabra jx10 headset is an amazing pair....flawlessly connect, great volume and the other person cant tell it is a headset.

    i recommend every palm faithful give it a try. it is no risk for 2 weeks (provided you keep it well protected. you might be surprised with what you find.
    Does this work with the voice commands with the 650/700? I have a BT250v and it works great to talk with once your connected, but the voice commands don't work.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    also - I keep saying this OVER and OVER - the 700 is NOT meant to be 'an upgrade' to the 650. It's a separate product line - like one person said in this thread - it's the brother to the 650, not the successor. If someone gets a 700, expecting a ton of upgrade functions from a 650, they're going to be disappointed. The point of the 700 is to get those PPC users who wouldn't go to a converged device until now, for whatever reason. And, of course, to appeal to all the IT managers out there who plan to only support WM devices for Exchange Active Sync, when they go to Exchange 2003 and SP2, and MSFP on the devices.

    The point - the 700 isn't designed or intended to woo away 650 users. It's for net new users. Of course, some/many may upgrade, but that's not the primary goal of the product.
    I think it's the number upgrade that makes people think this. 650w might have been better.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #28  
    What can you possibly dislike about Activesync ?? It kicks the snot out of palmsync. Even treonaughts agrees .. Activesync > Palmsync by a LARGE factor.

    No annoying popups when syncing, syncing just "works" if you happen to be traveling downloading activesync is easy (good luck finding palmsync online !) no "conduits" or other crap to get messed up.


    Quote Originally Posted by orrgroup
    If anything sucks on the 700w, it is Active Sync. Otherwise, I like the 5-way, the 'ok' button. And I love the tight integration with my favorites, pictures, media, and desktop files. Lets don't forget the pdf viewing as well.

    I think the Treo650 breakthroughs still should apply here. That is, the Treo700w is a brother and part of the family. No major look differences or feel differences, but it is different. And, for me anyway, I really beat the heck out of my 650 and it was time for either a new one or the 700w. And having the 700w just a day, I can see what a neat difference it offers. Especially the push and EVDO.

    Its amazing how fast google comes up as well as the proceeding search of some item. Wow. Really quite good and fast. You can see the future with this thing.

    I bet Google is designing a handheld with even faster searching. The 'Pocket Google' with wither WM5 or its own Linux adaptation.. Would be interesting. They are sitting on several hundred billion in cash. They could do it and shake things up a bit.
  9. sjjones's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by riekl
    What can you possibly dislike about Activesync ?? It kicks the snot out of palmsync. Even treonaughts agrees .. Activesync > Palmsync by a LARGE factor.

    No annoying popups when syncing, syncing just "works" if you happen to be traveling downloading activesync is easy (good luck finding palmsync online !) no "conduits" or other crap to get messed up.

    Trying a PPC 6700 out and find activesync works great No issues at all, I think equal or better than palms version.

    (still learning, but probaly returning it going back to my t650)
  10. #30  
    ActiveSync works fine on my 700 - no issues at all. sjjones, when you say 'better than palms version', do you mean - better than HotSync, or better than Active Sync on the Palm Treo700w? ActiveSync is all good on my 700....
  11. fmcgirt's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by riekl
    What can you possibly dislike about Activesync ?? It kicks the snot out of palmsync. Even treonaughts agrees .. Activesync > Palmsync by a LARGE factor.

    No annoying popups when syncing, syncing just "works" if you happen to be traveling downloading activesync is easy (good luck finding palmsync online !) no "conduits" or other crap to get messed up.
    Totally NOT my experience. AS 4.1 with WM5 takes forever to connect (via USB), forever to "Look for changes" and from then on pretty much OK. Also with about every other sync I get glitches like "Server busy". What server? I am using USB!!! It was much more reliable and faster syncing with WM3 devices. I think the change to IP type communication for syncing introduced a lot of problems.

    My 650 synced every time without any problems - especially with latest version of Missing Sync. About the only advantage with AS for me is the ability to sync wirelessly with an Exchange server out of the box - no Goodlink or other app to mess with. That does work very well.

    Frank
  12. #32  
    It appears that everyone that actually has the Treo 700w agrees that it seems to be a good investment. At least at this point. I have one. I didn't upgrade to the 650 so I am going from the 300 -> 600 -> 700w. It was much easier for me to justify the upgrades that the 700w possess over those of the 650. Here's why.

    1 - Windows Mobile OS - I have been hanging tough with Palm OS for years now but it is very frustrating having to wait for some smart developer to enable a feature that should have been included, but the most frustrating thing is waiting for the ability to access pdf files. Pdf files have existed almost as long the internet. Then you have the fact that major developers don't over look PPC devices the same way that POS devices are (like logmein). I have never used POS to stick it to Microsoft, so I have know issues with admitting that POS is being left behind.

    2 - EVDO - It's true once you use it you will not go back to the slow stuff. It's just like the difference between DSL and dialup. Arguements over because I know none of you went back to dial up. This is the one area I am actually a power user. I am big on remote controlling PCs. Access FTP servers from my phone. Large email attachments. I can't wait to see how far I can go with newsgroups and IRC with this thing. But all that stuff aside we all know how important internet access is for business and the faster the better so.... Oh yeah and I use the phone alot so I signed up for the 4,000 minute plan with unlimited data it actually is a bargain at $169 per month.

    3 - I like the useability and familiarity of the interface. Somethings take an extra click or two but for the most part it works great and it's still using one hand. I am still learning it and I am sure there will be a developer that can tweak it to work even better (these are the things that we need developers for).

    4 - Push email - Without another app or expense needed and the backup/synchronization of Contacts, Todos, and notes along with emails ios great.

    To me just the OS, internet speed, and compatibility to everyday standards (pdf files, streaming WMA and WMV, Outlook, real websites, I'm sure there's more) makes this a no brainer for me.

    After all, the 650 offered a nice screen and bluetooth. Whoopee!!!
  13. #33  
    cnet likes the 650 better than the 700w. . .

    http://reviews.cnet.com/Palm_Treo_70...2.html?tag=sub
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjayd
    Does this work with the voice commands with the 650/700? I have a BT250v and it works great to talk with once your connected, but the voice commands don't work.
    Can anyone confirm if the jx10 works with voice commands via BT on the 700?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTreo

    1 - Windows Mobile OS - I have been hanging tough with Palm OS for years now but it is very frustrating having to wait for some smart developer to enable a feature that should have been included, but the most frustrating thing is waiting for the ability to access pdf files. Pdf files have existed almost as long the internet. Then you have the fact that major developers don't over look PPC devices the same way that POS devices are (like logmein). I have never used POS to stick it to Microsoft, so I have know issues with admitting that POS is being left behind.

    <snip>

    To me just the OS, internet speed, and compatibility to everyday standards (pdf files, streaming WMA and WMV, Outlook, real websites, I'm sure there's more) makes this a no brainer for me.

    After all, the 650 offered a nice screen and bluetooth. Whoopee!!!

    Ummm...you do know that there's numerous pdf solutions for palmos now including DTG8, palmpdf, Piscel etc right? Furthermore that are various solid solutions for outlook integration and decent browser options as well. However, I will give you that lack of wm is glaring...
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  16. #36  
    I think the 700w is a good product with a few flaws and bugs that a patch (or 2) and a few third-party apps will improve...just as has occurred with all PDAs and smartphones. I upgraded from a treo 600, and I am unsure whether I would have done so had I owned the 650. In fact, the 700w is not targeted for current owners of the 650 so the comparisons by reviewers between the 650 and the 700w seem almost specious. No one would claim that the 700w is not a better device than the 600, which is the more appropriate point of comparison.
  17. #37  
    likestech, I think it's entirely appropriate for reviewers to compare the 650 to the 700w. And, for someone more considered with efficiency of commonly used tasks that the 650 supports, there's certainly an advantage there. And yes, I could even make an argument that the 600 is a superior device (from an efficiency/zen standpoint, I *have* made the argument that the 600 was better than the 650). Overall, I'd say that Palm's move from 600 to 650 to 700w has increased the feature set (leaving out the 320x320 to 240x240 backward move) but decreased some of the efficiency.

    gfunk, one of the biggest problems I have with the Palm OS is the lack of a multi-window browser. I wonder how long it would have taken PalmSource to back-port their tabbed Cobalt browser and sell it on PalmGear? Too bad they don't like money. OTOH, WM certainly has the big-developer momentum these days, with Opera, Skype, Sirius, and others all on board. The sad thing is that there's no technical reason why many of these high-power apps couldn't be done with Palm OS Garnet. So why won't they support Palm OS? Because it's perceived as dying. I would argue that getting these developers on-board is largely a marketing problem, which I'll be talking a bit about in another post I'll be posting shortly.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by IsLNdbOi
    That's exactly what I was thinking. WM uses more memory per application and the 700W's available memory for running applications is tiny. What a joke.
    I could run emulators, games like DOOM and much more on a 16MB Cassiopeia 6 years ago running a much older, slower, clunkier version of WinCE. I think some folks are seriously inflating the Program Memory issue on this device.

    After all, comparing this to the 650, it's a bloody paragon of storage. After ZLauncher and a PIM replacement or two, you're damned lucky to have 12MB free on the 650...

    As for 'efficiency' - that word doesn't even belong in the same post as Garnet.
    Last edited by pixelator; 01/13/2006 at 12:36 AM.
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  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelator
    I could run emulators, games like DOOM and much more on a 16MB Cassiopeia 6 years ago running a much older, slower, clunkier version of WinCE. I think some folks are seriously inflating the Program Memory issue on this device.

    After all, comparing this to the 650, it's a bloody paragon of storage. After ZLauncher and a PIM replacement or two, you're damned lucky to have 12MB free on the 650...

    As for 'efficiency' - that word doesn't even belong in the same post as Garnet.
    Unfortunately the 700w has the same button issues with emulators that we had with iPaqs et al back in teh days of the Cassiopea - MameCE and NESter run, but are unpayable because they can't recognize the Treo's buttons. Add that to some progams not working well with the screen (such as Delta's schedules) and this device has w ays to go to be as useful as my 650. I do loek the ECDO speeds when I tether it.

    My main concern with the 700w is the time it takes to load progarms - after using the Palm I'm not real happy with the "Happy Fun Ball" spinning as it loads a program.
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcoffey
    My main concern with the 700w is the time it takes to load progarms - after using the Palm I'm not real happy with the "Happy Fun Ball" spinning as it loads a program.
    You may need to explain this to oalvarez. He and treoneo think there is no problem with the shtick of putting only 32MB of RAM that Palm since you can only see one program at a time. If you had plenty of items in RAM then the Happy Fun Ball wouldn't have so much fun. I feel your pain and you have Palm to thank for selling you an underequipped device. It's the 650 of the Windows Media world.
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