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  1. #41  
    10MB may be enough to run apps in a perfect world with a perfect OS and prefectly written apps, but in reality, there is much memory leakage in Windows Mobile. In a typical day, memory will drop by about 5-10MB even if you always close all your apps. Just as the ill-fated Motorola MPX, also only with 10MB of available memory, needed constant resets (you could only browse about 10-20 pages in PIE before all the memory was used up), I fear the 700W will suffer the same fate. While the MPX ran WM3, not WM5, I do have a Windows Mobile 5 device (HTC's Universal) and the situation with memory leaks has not improved from v3 to v5. While v5 manages memory differently, it still uses memory for application runspace just as v3 does. 10MB of available memory is just not enough for real world usage due to the leakage. Most people aren't going to want to have to reset their device three times a day. The power and cost savings of less RAM just aren't worth it if the device is unusable during the course of an average workday.
  2. #42  
    Until the phone actually launches in the next 10 days or so we won't really know what the memory is. VZWEmployee indicates plenty of memory, Treonauts Blog says 25.84 of memory but which is right. I am waiting to see.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    In a typical day, memory will drop by about 5-10MB even if you always close all your apps. Just as the ill-fated Motorola MPX, also only with 10MB of available memory, needed constant resets (you could only browse about 10-20 pages in PIE before all the memory was used up), I fear the 700W will suffer the same fate.
    Fear not. WM5.0 uses a different memory structure. In previous PPC OS versions, with the shared storage/execution format, cacheing program like PIE would fill up the storage side and squeeze out the execution side. Doesn't happen with WM5.0.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    Fear not. WM5.0 uses a different memory structure. In previous PPC OS versions, with the shared storage/execution format, cacheing program like PIE would fill up the storage side and squeeze out the execution side. Doesn't happen with WM5.0.
    Actually, it's not that much different between WM3 and WM5 in actual use. I'm pretty familiar with PPC's and know about WM5. As I said, I have a WM5 device (the HTC Universal or "JasJar") and while they do not share the same pool of memory anymore, the memory assigned for application running still leaks. Looking at my specs on the JarJar this morning after a reboot, I had 10MB of storage and 22MB of execution memory. By now (10 hours later and having run and close a number of apps), it's down to 16MB execution (still 10MB storage). That's a 6MB drop for no real reason - the obvious sign of memory leaks. So the memory leak is alive and well in WM5. Or at least it is in the apps. The OS may have changed but the apps are still leaking memory. And just for the record, I don't use PIE (a major memory offender) much anymore. I use ThunderHawk.

    But like with any device, you have to actually get it to know for sure. Maybe PalmOne did something that allows 10MB of memory to be more than sufficient. But in my vast experience with dozens of PocketPC's since 2000, the hundreds of apps I own and have used, all the hacking and tweaks I've done on them and my three months with the JasJar and WM5, it does not bode well if the 10MB thing is true. If its true, its real boneheaded on P1's part. I'm not a big fan of the square PPC screen anyways but if it does have more memory, then the 700W will be just fine. I'm almost inclined to think that VZW employee was right and it has the usual 64MB of memory. In fact, I'd be quite shocked to see 32MB. The MPX proved you can't do 32MB of memory in WM.
    Last edited by DaleReeck; 12/25/2005 at 07:36 PM.
  5. #45  
    ThunderHawk isn't listed as supporting WM5. Does it work anyway?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. Cartman's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    I'm pretty familiar with PPC's and know about WM5.
    Then you know that applications stay running in the background with the OS handeling when they close...or that you can go to the memory control panel and stop all running programs... that will free up most of your memory.
  7.    #47  
    Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but it would still be useful to know where your memory is going. Not every process running (and none of the services) show up in the normal task manager. Have you tried software like itaskmgr, which will show you (just like the win xp task manager) what's really running, and what's using up your memory.



    http://homepage2.nifty.com/qta/tpn/

    For example, running tasks only show 8 tasks running, while itaskmgr shows 20 processes are actually running. Some cache icons, graphics and fonts, and may therefore increase in size as time goes on.

    It also has a nice graphical view of your memory usage over time, so you can see which activity tends to use up your resources more.



    Its freeware, but I do not know if its safe to work on WM5. In WM2003SE it sometimes appears to hang while enumerating the memory use of a process, but it always comes back eventually.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 12/26/2005 at 05:45 AM.
  8. #48  
    They call it memory management for a reason. All you have to do is manage it - not let it manage you.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    That's a 6MB drop for no real reason - the obvious sign of memory leaks. So the memory leak is alive and well in WM5.
    DaleReeck, WM5 is not the problem but rather the HTC Universal you are using. The Universal has a known issue in leaking Program memory (RAM) but its younger sibling the HTC Wizard (which I own) does not.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbie
    Quote Originally Posted by Surur
    Do you have a final Treo 700w? What does the memory specs say (under Start>Settings>System>Memory>Main (tab)

    How much Available, In use and Free ram do you have after a soft reset?

    Thx

    Surur
    Just read this; sorry
    Storage:
    62.95MB Total
    in use 12.21
    Free 50.74

    Program:
    Total: 25.45MB
    In use: 15.91 MB
    Free: 9.54 MB

    thats with all running programs stopped
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...84#post6442084

    A further confirmation of 32MB RAM, at least in the devices floating about at the moment.

    Surur
  11. #51  
    It doesn't make any difference whether 32mb is enough or not - it's positively stupid not to use 64mb RAM with today's programs. WHY oh WHY does Palm insist on issuing a shoehorn with with a new device like this.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. #52  
    That is horrible if true! 32MB is for cheap devices(like the first WM5 one I bought)!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    It doesn't make any difference whether 32mb is enough or not - it's positively stupid not to use 64mb RAM with today's programs. WHY oh WHY does Palm insist on issuing a shoehorn with with a new device like this.
    I can't imagine there is much of a difference in price between 32 and 64mb of ram
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  14.    #54  
    Each 32MB is about $10. Regarding the Bill Of Materials, the WM5 OS costs about the same or less.

    Surur
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Each 32MB is about $10. Regarding the Bill Of Materials, the WM5 OS costs about the same or less.

    Surur
    $10 bucks? Then it makes me think that it wasn't just a penny-pinching move (don't ask me to come up with another reason though )
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  16. #56  
    Palm is notoriously cheap and short sited when it comes to building out the specs of any device especially in the memory dept. With that said I am still waiting for full confirmation of the true specs list. Its only 9 days away. Plus PPCtechs will fix the memory if Palm failed to do so.
  17. #57  
    Not on the TX and Lifedrive. Looking at what's on them and what's on the Treo is depressing.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #58  
    Wasn't the ill fated and dead Moto Mpx only supposed to have 32 MB ram?! And even with that it had a horrible battery life. Perhaps the 32 MB ram limitation and WM05 combo is the reasoning to fix that... but it still is worrisome I agree...
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  19. Cartman's Avatar
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    #59  
    it is in fact 128/64. I believe 4mb is reserved all together so they don't list it as available. By the way I have changed my name in case no one noticed. I think it would be better if everyone just knew me as VZW E instead of my old name.
    Very reliable source has confirmed that it has 128MB storage/64MB memory!!! So that means the units that only have 32MB's are developer/pre-production units! Yay That also means that the processor COULD be faster than what they have as well (!!!)

    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...43#post6446143
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    The percentage of power RAM pulls from the battery is nearly unmeasureable compared to other functions. Why do you think a PPC (RAM) can maintain power for days (weeks) on standby, a PPC phone (RAM, Radio) can remain on standby for days, and a PPC can only run continuously for 2-4 hours (RAM, Screen, Processor, external read-writes, etc). So a doubling of RAM and the presumed doubling of power consumption doesn't really matter much if the RAM is only drawing 1% of the power in the first place.

    Example of Battery Consumption to Isolate RAM consumption:
    - PPC on Stby: 14 Days (20,000+ minutes): Consumption due 100% to RAM
    - PPC Phone Stby: 4 Days (5700 Minutes) - Consumtion due to radio & RAM: Difference means 25% power due to Radio
    - PPC Phone on: 3 Hours (180 minutes) - Consumption due to Radio, RAM, CPU, Screen et al): Difference means <1% is RAM
    Well, I'm no electrical engineer, but if you follow the link to the Microsoft blog, you get to this quote:

    128M of RAM takes about 500mAh to stay resident for 72 hours. 64M takes about 250. This is why you never saw a 256M WM 2003 device.
    Again, the point is not that RAM is a hog. It's a steady drain. Reduce the steady drain, and get more power for the radios.
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