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  1.    #1  
    hey all,
    haven't been here in a while. i tried searching briefly, but found nothing.
    simple question: can anyone give objective input as to the one handed integration the treo 700w will have with windows mobile as compared to the palm integration.
    i recently lost my 650, and no insurance, so i have to buy a new one at full retail. i was figuring hopping around on the new verizon razr and new blackberry for a couple of weeks. hopefully by then the 700w will be out.

    anything?

    thanks
  2. #2  
    Treonauts just got one, so I'm sure there will a report on it in the news few days.
  3. #3  
    I have used both the Treo 650 and the WM5 PPC6700. WM5 has very good one-handed use built in already. This combined with the OS mods made by Palm should result in excellent one handed use at least as good as the 650.
  4. #4  
    The 6700 is pretty awful to use one-handed compared to the 650. Wait for treonauts to review the 700w before committing to WM5. It's still not clear whether the 6700's problems are due to WM5 or poor design of the phone itself.
  5. #5  
    FWIW, I'm fairly certain that Palm has not any OS tweaks to WM5, but rather has added some value-added applications. So I wouldn't expect non-Palm apps to behave any differently on the 700w than they do on the PPC-6700 in terms of D-Pad/keyboard integration. My experience with the 6700 was that while you *could* do (almost) everything without touching the screen, it was sometimes less efficient than the equivalent task on a Treo 650. Still, I suspect that the always-available thumbboard and one-hand-focused design to make these inefficiencies bearable for anyone who prefers Windows Mobile. But just to be clear...you should expect an equivalent one-handed experience on the HP 6715, so anyone interested in the 700w should take a look at that device as well.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  6. #6  
    Things like the calendar app on the 6700 is just horrible. You can't do anything on it one-handed. On the 650, you can easily scroll between views, click the center button and be able to navigate around within whatever view you are in, edit days, etc. On the 6700, you must use the stylus to chose days. It's also more cumbersome to change views on the 6700. Don't even get me started on the joke that tries to pass as an SMS app on the 6700.

    It sounds like you're right about the 650 being so great because of the apps. I had always considered the basic functions like SMS, calendar, phone dialer and things like that as being part of the OS. I should think of them as apps instead.
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    FWIW, I'm fairly certain that Palm has not any OS tweaks to WM5, but rather has added some value-added applications.
    It was stated in the press conf. (the one with Bill Gates there) that Palm did make tweaks (think they called it hooks) into the OS with MS's cooperation.
  8. #8  
    I'm familiar with what was said at that conference, but I've yet to see any evidence of true OS hacking. Reading through the 700w manual all I see are new Palm-developed apps (including the Today/phone screen/app). The only thing I've heard about recently that sounds like a Palm developed OS hack is the ability to dial phone numbers using the hard keypad no matter which app is running (which sounds ho-hum at best and problematic at worst). But I guess we'll find out if there's anything else in just a month or so.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'm familiar with what was said at that conference, but I've yet to see any evidence of true OS hacking. Reading through the 700w manual all I see are new Palm-developed apps (including the Today/phone screen/app). The only thing I've heard about recently that sounds like a Palm developed OS hack is the ability to dial phone numbers using the hard keypad no matter which app is running (which sounds ho-hum at best and problematic at worst). But I guess we'll find out if there's anything else in just a month or so.
    A Palm-developed phone app is very promising given the problems with the 6700's phone app and the lack of third-party phone apps that are compatible with WM5.
  10. #10  
    I agree the SMS program is aweful (I don't use it) but I have no problems using my calendar one handed- yes, it could be done better though. I really don't have to pull out the stylus unless I want to, except one thing - I can't find a way to highlight the URL in PocketIE without using the stylus (or my finger).

    I agree though that WM5 is no where near as good one handed as the Treo 650. I think however that part of the Treo purpose and draw is one handed use and Palm knows this and markets this and will utilize the "hooks" or whatever they are called to improve upon WM5. For example, according to the 700W there is an easy one-handed way to enter the memory manager and close running programs. So hopefully there will be other improvements. Time will tell, and of course, if you love the Treo 650 UI I wouldn't jump ship and get a 700W without trying it.
  11. #11  
    also keep in mind that the 700 isn't positioned, necessarily, as the 'next' Treo, but rather, the 'other' Treo. It's not intended to be a product that a current 650 user will or even should upgrade to, but just a product to appeal to the PPC lovers out there.

    So - perhaps we current 650 users will try to hold the 700 to a different standard, and unfairly so, while a current PPC user wouldn't have the same level of comparison.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    also keep in mind that the 700 isn't positioned, necessarily, as the 'next' Treo, but rather, the 'other' Treo. It's not intended to be a product that a current 650 user will or even should upgrade to, but just a product to appeal to the PPC lovers out there.

    So - perhaps we current 650 users will try to hold the 700 to a different standard, and unfairly so, while a current PPC user wouldn't have the same level of comparison.
    When the 700w comes out, it will be looked at by the masses as the 650 replacement unless the marketing clearly states this is not a 650 replacement (Highly Unlikely). The consequences of this are that most 650 users who are looking at upgrading their phones will either be severely disappointed at Palm or will just hop into line and upgrade to the 700w. Afterall, not every Treo user logs into Treo related sites to check out what is happening in this space.

    Personally, all I hope is that the Treonauts are experienced Windows Mobile and Palm OS users who will perform an objective non-emotional review/comparison because my experiences with both OS' so far tells me that the Palm OS literally owns the "King of the Hill" title in the one-handed operation category.

    How important is one-handed operation? Is it too late to tell Palm here on these forums (or other channels)? Do you see me waving both my hands and feet in the air trying to tell Palm (I've given up on Microsoft) that is why they have won me over with their Treo line for the past 2 years?

    From an application perspective, I have my fingers crossed that Palm replaced the awful Windows Mobile SMS application and bundle in software like they did with their Palm devices that make the default WM applications more appealing or replace them altogether.

    I noticed that a number of Treo 700w or WM5 previewers have commented on the one handed operation of the calendar application. For me, that is not as important as the phone/SMS one-handed integraton. The way I use the device, I usually enter calendar entries via MS Outlook on the desktop. The one handed operation on Pocket Breeze is working for me at the moment and allows me to check upcoming events/tasks easily.
  13. #13  
    Remember that the 700w will only be available on Verizon for about 6 months and that a 700p is rumored to be released at the same time.

    Pocket Breeze is nice, but doesn't have threaded SMS like the Treo 650.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'm familiar with what was said at that conference, but I've yet to see any evidence of true OS hacking. Reading through the 700w manual all I see are new Palm-developed apps (including the Today/phone screen/app).
    I have not seen any treo OS hacking either. The only change from a stock WM5 phone so far is the Today screen which has been totally customized, and is now a phone application in addition to the standard today screen. The 5-way calendar support is the same as on the 6700 (horrible), however I am hoping that Palm addresses this before the final release software release.
  15. #15  
    Okay, I guess I never really played that much with the calendar. I just checked my appointments and never really added everything. I just checked it out and is indeed awful for one handed use and in general.
  16. #16  
    As I recall Palm had input on WM5 with MS so in fact what we see in WM5 is partly Palm's doing. Either way the baby is out and he's running fast.
  17. #17  
    Marcus, my preference would be for MS to improve 5-way functionality in the core apps, rather than Palm do that. That way other WM5 smartphones could take advantage of it, too.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.

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