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  1. #181  
    So last night I had a very random thought. Seems like this thread is slowing down now that all our original thoughts didn't work. Anyway the kernel puts things active in memory, they are not really used they goto swap. if swap is filling up they goto disk. looking at the pre- we only get about 100mb of swap space. So once it hits about 50 or 60 mb the phone starts slowing down because the kernel is rearranging things and moving stuff to disk more. What do you think would happen if we increased the size of this swap partition to idk 256mb? Just looking for general opinions. Also this is more for pre- users. It seems like the pre + and up have 512mb overall and do pretty well without ever needing swap. so if we had 512mb between swap and memory everything we load should be in memory or swap space which would have a slight improvement on performance.
    Sprint pre -> Motorola Photon 4G
  2. snpalavan's Avatar
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    #182  
    With the new LunaSysMgr, i get much better allocation of memory, i.e. my swap fills up much slower. However, i still think there are problems with emptying out the swap because while the allocation allows me more time before the phone fills up (if i don't run anything it will remain low), but once the memory DOES fill up, it never really lowers even after closing all of the cards and leaving it sitting for a while. The only way to remove the swap (as usual) is to reset the phone.

    So, while it has improved time before filling, there is still the issue of emptying.
  3. carrel's Avatar
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    #183  
    I have been running this now for about 4 days. I agree with the previous comment. My phone is lasting longer before it gets laggy and needs a reboot. But the problem is not fixed. Don't think I'm not appreciative... This is definitely an improvement. But something is wrong...

    It's as if the kernel is not implementing swap right. Or the swap code is not optimized for flash.

    Sprint Pre-, 2.1.0
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by carrel View Post
    I have been running this now for about 4 days. I agree with the previous comment. My phone is lasting longer before it gets laggy and needs a reboot. But the problem is not fixed. Don't think I'm not appreciative... This is definitely an improvement. But something is wrong...

    It's as if the kernel is not implementing swap right. Or the swap code is not optimized for flash.

    Sprint Pre-, 2.1.0
    Ditto.
  5. #185  
    So perhaps the combination of the memory management tweaks that Xanadu73 posted, and fixing the swap clear approach would be the best way to go.

    What we need is someone who can get that upstart swap cleaning script to work.

    Or folks need to do this manually, which is a bit of a pain.
  6. #186  
    It's possible that we can get a script working with Mode Switcher. sounds like Sconix is going to add CLI support pretty soon: http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...=1#post2958109.

    i think this would allow a scheduled cleaning of the swap. Probably not as effective as tailing the memory usage, but we should be able to set it up do do whenever the screen goes off.
  7. #187  
    I seem to be having trouble getting any script to work on boot. I'm testing a script that dynamically changes the swappiness based on how much ram and swap is available. However I am noticing that sometimes it loads on boot and sometimes I have to fire the script manually.

    here is my boot script, dynaSwapStart.sh, in /etc/init.d
    Code:
    #!/bin/sh
    #this script starts dynaSwap.sh
    ./etc/dynaSwap.sh &
    then I chmod +x the script

    then i did the following
    ln -s /etc/init.d/dynaSwapStart.sh /etc/rc5.d/S50dynaSwapStart.sh
    ln -s /etc/init.d/dynaSwapStart.sh /etc/rc5.d/K50dynaSwapStart.sh

    idk everything seems like it should work and sometimes it does and other times it doesn't.

    Also does anyone know where the ssh setup directions are. I checked webos internals and got ssh installed but there were no instructions on what the password was or how to configure users. right now Ive been using novaterm on linux and windows but I dont like my phone charging all day.

    Finally,
    With the swaphack script. for keeping reboots away it is great but once the swap hits 50mb the phone is going to freeze and lag out horrible has the swap is turned off and on again. ive seen my swap hit over 50 while playing angry birds. To have a full swap clear in the middle of a game or while playing pandora is going to cause lots of complaints. just my opinion.
    Sprint pre -> Motorola Photon 4G
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by theXfactor2011 View Post
    I seem to be having trouble getting any script to work on boot. I'm testing a script that dynamically changes the swappiness based on how much ram and swap is available. However I am noticing that sometimes it loads on boot and sometimes I have to fire the script manually.

    here is my boot script, dynaSwapStart.sh, in /etc/init.d
    Code:
    #!/bin/sh
    #this script starts dynaSwap.sh
    ./etc/dynaSwap.sh &
    then I chmod +x the script

    then i did the following
    ln -s /etc/init.d/dynaSwapStart.sh /etc/rc5.d/S50dynaSwapStart.sh
    ln -s /etc/init.d/dynaSwapStart.sh /etc/rc5.d/K50dynaSwapStart.sh

    idk everything seems like it should work and sometimes it does and other times it doesn't.

    Also does anyone know where the ssh setup directions are. I checked webos internals and got ssh installed but there were no instructions on what the password was or how to configure users. right now Ive been using novaterm on linux and windows but I dont like my phone charging all day.

    Finally,
    With the swaphack script. for keeping reboots away it is great but once the swap hits 50mb the phone is going to freeze and lag out horrible has the swap is turned off and on again. ive seen my swap hit over 50 while playing angry birds. To have a full swap clear in the middle of a game or while playing pandora is going to cause lots of complaints. just my opinion.
    I don't have the technical know-how to get this working. Instead i'm going to rely on Mode Switcher running commands. I think this will be a far superior way of doing this, because it will allow you to set up a mode that triggers whenever you want to do whatever you want. So say you want to clear swap whenever you turn off your screen. It can do that. Or when you launch a particular app. Thats no problem.

    I would encourage anyone who thinks this approach will work to request in the MS thread (here). This way sconix will up-prioritize this feature.
  9. #189  
    Regarding ssh:
    The recommended procedure is using a key for ssh.
    Application:OpenSSH - WebOS Internals
  10. lupos's Avatar
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    #190  
    I got this installed finally. So far seems to be good. The swap stays very low. Phone still hangs from time to time but its not as long as it was before and never the near fatal locks i was getting before. Will report back after a bit more time. Thanks for all the hard work on this though.
  11. #191  
    So is nyone Linux-savvy enough to help with this? It would be nice to see some code that would:

    1) Increase the maximum swap size. Unfortunately, from my understanding, the swap is contained in a separate partition, so we would have to doctor our phones to make this work. Still, if increasing the swap fixed the lag, even if we had to do this as a meta-doctor script I would be willing to do it to fix the phone.

    2) Modify the kernel to support flash based swap support.

    3) Implement a swap clearing method that doesn't require you to know C++ to do so.

    It also would be awesome if this could be packaged into a meta-doctor script.

    Just suggestions, I dont know how to do any of this. Maybe someone out there is a linux genius and can help (cough Rod or UnixPsycho cough)

    Quote Originally Posted by theXfactor2011 View Post
    So last night I had a very random thought. Seems like this thread is slowing down now that all our original thoughts didn't work. Anyway the kernel puts things active in memory, they are not really used they goto swap. if swap is filling up they goto disk. looking at the pre- we only get about 100mb of swap space. So once it hits about 50 or 60 mb the phone starts slowing down because the kernel is rearranging things and moving stuff to disk more. What do you think would happen if we increased the size of this swap partition to idk 256mb? Just looking for general opinions. Also this is more for pre- users. It seems like the pre + and up have 512mb overall and do pretty well without ever needing swap. so if we had 512mb between swap and memory everything we load should be in memory or swap space which would have a slight improvement on performance.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    So is nyone Linux-savvy enough to help with this? It would be nice to see some code that would:

    1) Increase the maximum swap size. Unfortunately, from my understanding, the swap is contained in a separate partition, so we would have to doctor our phones to make this work. Still, if increasing the swap fixed the lag, even if we had to do this as a meta-doctor script I would be willing to do it to fix the phone.
    My understanding of this is limited but from what I have read the benefits of swap partitions are minimal compared to what they used to be. In fact on FLASH swap partitions are not preferred since this localizes the file and increased write activity in the same location can wear out flash over time. In theory you should be able to add a swap file to the existing swap partition and even change the priority of these if desired.

    What I can't say is how this would interact with CompCache which has never been fully explained. CompCache on webOS doesn't show up in the tools the way it does on Android - I can't see how much CompCache is installed by looking with swapon -s for example. So I'm a bit confused how the mapping occurs and if adding a swap file would cause issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    2) Modify the kernel to support flash based swap support.
    Specifically what does this mean? What changes would be needed to be "flash" optimized? Many sources suggest reducing swappiness to zero if possible when using flash.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    3) Implement a swap clearing method that doesn't require you to know C++ to do so.
    I'm still fuzzy about why clearing is a good thing despite all the information presented. What's unclear is why a NOT full swap device leads to problems if it is partly full.

    Some additional reading info on swap on linux in flash:

    http://www.cyrius.com/debian/nslu2/linux-on-flash.html
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    1) Increase the maximum swap size. Unfortunately, from my understanding, the swap is contained in a separate partition, so we would have to doctor our phones to make this work. Still, if increasing the swap fixed the lag, even if we had to do this as a meta-doctor script I would be willing to do it to fix the phone.
    I was able to add an additional 256mb of swap space as a swap file on /media/internal however I am having trouble getting it to mount again at boot. Another downside by placing it on /media/internal I cannot get into usb mode while its mounted. (not a big deal for me)

    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    2) Modify the kernel to support flash based swap support.
    Not exactly sure what is meant by this. either way i cant do it lol. When I did a test on my additional swap file i was only getting about 3.3mb/s read over 256 mb of data. not really anything good at all. Seems like the palm ssd is really more like an sd card.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    3) Implement a swap clearing method that doesn't require you to know C++ to do so.
    I'm researching some memory/ kernel stuff but by default if something ends up in swap its going to stay there until its needed again or the kernel needs more swap space to push things from memory. I'm thinking something along the lines that can read the pages in swap and look to see which ones have been marked dirty and just delete them. However, there is a risk that something can be marked dirty but only be a few seconds away from being loaded back in. hopefully any implementation will be worked out some its easier for everyone to use.
    Sprint pre -> Motorola Photon 4G
  14. #194  
    I have been reading the Pixi Overclocking post for some tips on memory managment that maybe we can utilize on the Pre as well. Clearly since the Pixi has to deal with 190mb of ram rather than 230mb (due to the software based cell technology) they have been more aggressive in their attempts.

    They have been using this tool called "Softswap" to increase swap size

    forums.precentral.net/palm-pixi/265430-experimental-pixi-overclocking-55.html

    I do not believe you can run soft swap and compcache at the same time though. Pitty, anyone know why? Or if its possible to modify to run at the same time?

    The Pixi guys have been doing some other tweaks outlined here for improved performance and less lag.

    forums.precentral.net/2944180-post1153.html

    forums.precentral.net/2946933-post1172.html

    forums.precentral.net/2947590-post1175.html

    forums.precentral.net/palm-pixi/265430-experimental-pixi-overclocking-59.html

    Some of this I dont understand, maybe some linux dude on here can help.

    Also everyone please make sure that you are using "Thunderchief" kernel as it overclocks the RAM to 200mhz, which does help a little bit with memory management.
  15. #195  
    and also once we get all this implemented we should compile our results and send it to HP. Might be of help to them.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    ...
    Also everyone please make sure that you are using "Thunderchief" kernel as it overclocks the RAM to 200mhz, which does help a little bit with memory management.
    good suggestion, but just a warning on this: not all devices can handle the overclocked system voltage. If you load F105a be prepared to memboot and recover. It may work, it may not. Just a warning.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    and also once we get all this implemented we should compile our results and send it to HP. Might be of help to them.
    Maybe, but i doubt it since i'm sure all new devices will have 512mb RAM, or more, as the Veer does.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    I have been reading the Pixi Overclocking post for some tips on memory managment that maybe we can utilize on the Pre as well. Clearly since the Pixi has to deal with 190mb of ram rather than 230mb (due to the software based cell technology) they have been more aggressive in their attempts.

    They have been using this tool called "Softswap" to increase swap size

    forums.precentral.net/palm-pixi/265430-experimental-pixi-overclocking-55.html

    I do not believe you can run soft swap and compcache at the same time though. Pitty, anyone know why? Or if its possible to modify to run at the same time?

    The Pixi guys have been doing some other tweaks outlined here for improved performance and less lag.

    forums.precentral.net/2944180-post1153.html

    forums.precentral.net/2946933-post1172.html

    forums.precentral.net/2947590-post1175.html

    forums.precentral.net/palm-pixi/265430-experimental-pixi-overclocking-59.html

    Some of this I dont understand, maybe some linux dude on here can help.

    Also everyone please make sure that you are using "Thunderchief" kernel as it overclocks the RAM to 200mhz, which does help a little bit with memory management.
    So this actually sparked my interest. Basically what they did was setup comcache without the disk partition. So you have your ram and part of it is compressed so you can put more data in it. But instead of going to the swap the kernel just tosses it out, or at least that what is hoped will happen. AKA it could just throw an out of memory error and the device reboots. I am currently running the scripts on my pre. on the pre we will have to turn compache off in govnah and then run the script.

    Code:
    root@Harry's Palm Pre:/etc# cat /proc/ramzswap
    DiskSize:         163840 kB
    NumReads:            236
    NumWrites:           472
    FailedReads:           0
    FailedWrites:          0
    InvalidIO:             0
    NotifyFree:          119
    ZeroPages:            22
    GoodCompress:         83 %
    NoCompress:            1 %
    PagesStored:         371
    PagesUsed:           114
    OrigDataSize:       1484 kB
    ComprDataSize:       412 kB
    MemUsedTotal:        456 kB
    root@Harry's Palm Pre:/etc#
    Last edited by theXfactor2011; 05/10/2011 at 04:41 PM. Reason: removed my last name
    Sprint pre -> Motorola Photon 4G
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickVTPre View Post
    Maybe, but i doubt it since i'm sure all new devices will have 512mb RAM, or more, as the Veer does.
    My Pre Plus using 1.4.5 and stock kernel doesn't swap much ever. I have been running for just under 1 day under normal use (Angry Birds, phone calls, web browsing, etc) and I have zero swap in use and free -l shows zero swap over this time. I did see more swap in use with UK and other non-default kernels before I doctored.
  20. #200  
    Code:
    root@Harry's Palm Pre:/etc/event.d# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:           239        215         23          0          3         50
    -/+ buffers/cache:        162         76
    Swap:          159         19        140
    root@Harry's Palm Pre:/etc/event.d# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:           239        229         10          0          4         54
    -/+ buffers/cache:        170         68
    Swap:          159         19        140
    root@Harry's Palm Pre:/etc/event.d# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:           239        225         13          0          1         65
    -/+ buffers/cache:        158         81
    Swap:          159         86         73
    I got this all fired up without lag. Also discovered its hard to play angry birds and asphalt5 at the same time. This is with a 160mb compressed swap without any disk backing. so far so good. What i can tell is the free ram fills up and then dumps into the compressed ram ,which btw isnt really 160mb , when the kernel goes to pull things from swap its much faster. But I probably should have started with a smaller swap size because I want to see what happens when the ram and compressed space are full. From the way things seem its hard to fill all of it.
    Last edited by theXfactor2011; 05/10/2011 at 05:13 PM. Reason: removed last name again
    Sprint pre -> Motorola Photon 4G

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