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  1.    #1  
    Here's an interesting take on why Windows Mobile and Palm OS ran out of steam in the smartphone market and why what users on this forum want may not be a good strategy for HPalm :

    The parable of the the PDA: predicting the smartphone’s future | asymco

    The problem is that the vendors that lost this game failed because they listened to their customers. Like with PDAs or with the original mobile phones or first generation of PCs, early adopters are not the audience that should be consulted on how to improve the product.

    Early Windows Mobile users were ecstatic about the platform and rejected new UI metaphors because they wanted a “mobile Windows”. Palm fans stuck with the PalmOS even though it was well past its shelf date in the Treo because they treasured the original PDA metaphors.

    Every company paying attention to the market in 2005 would have been eagerly pursuing corporate buyers of PDAs and aiming complex products at enthusiastic PDA users.

  2. #2  
    That article appears to have been written by some lazy-a** marketer who - on a good day - might have enough intelligence to button his own shirt but definitely not enough to tie his own shoes. He cites research across an audience uninformed and reluctant to use the product under evaluation and then claims extends the idea that this wrong sampling applies to all samplings. I'm surprised he passed 3rd grade!

    What's needed is a healthy mix of both users familiar with products applying similar mental models and a general cross section of potential new users. The former to understand the pathways toward optimal usage of your product and the latter to see what it takes to get the general "volume" audience where they need to be in order to adopt it. Clearly companies like Apple have done just this - and that's what separates the men from the boys.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and if the volume audience cannot pick it up, then it means the model is wrong. He cites this issue with early Windows Mobile but I still think his article is "missing the mark". (In that case there were already competing products and mental models that were already "performing better" in the marketplace.)
    Last edited by sudoer; 12/29/2010 at 08:27 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #3  
    That article appears to have been written by some lazy-a** marketer who - on a good day - might have enough intelligence to button his own shirt but definitely not enough to tie his own shoes. He cites research across an audience uninformed and reluctant to use the product under evaluation and then claims extends the idea that this wrong sampling applies to all samplings. I'm surprised he passed 3rd grade!
    Or maybe someone's just butthurt that the article says their market isn't important.
    If early adapters aren't happy with the product they're getting, they should leave. There is no moral reason not to leave if the product doesn't suite your needs - I promise you won't go to hell for it. I love webOS primarily because of the gesture area. TBH, if future hardware doesn't have it, I'll not buy Palm's future hardware (I'll probably go over to the iOS boat haha).



    Palm should have done more to caiter to palmOS fans, include all the loved features and productivity to webOS, - as well as work with developers to get them to port over apps to the new OS. PalmOS had 30,000 apps, webOS still has less than a quarter of that.
    Peace, Freedom, Prosperity.

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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by JLegacy View Post
    Or maybe someone's just butthurt that the article says their market isn't important.
    He dissed the Widows Mobile crowd - I'm fine with such dissings. If he posed reasoned and intelligent arguments that dissed me, I'd be OK with that too!

    Quote Originally Posted by JLegacy View Post
    If early adapters aren't happy with the product they're getting, they should leave. There is no moral reason not to leave if the product doesn't suite your needs - I promise you won't go to hell for it.
    You hit the nail on the head here. I couldn't agree more!

    Quote Originally Posted by JLegacy View Post
    I love webOS primarily because of the gesture area. TBH, if future hardware doesn't have it, I'll not buy Palm's future hardware (I'll probably go over to the iOS boat haha).
    In my opinion, IOS is a sea-worthy vessel. Unfortunately sailing in AT&T infested waters might delay your voyage every now and then. Once IOS is on other carriers, people will be able to vote with their feet and true allegiances will become more apparent!

    EDIT: I believe you are probably correct that the gesture area is "a winner". The PalmOS "grafitti/area" is an example of an "early adopter" feature that mass audiences did not prefer. This is the sort of thing I would have hoped to see in the article to prove their point. (I really liked that feature but Palm correctly "let it go" in WebOS.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JLegacy View Post
    Palm should have done more to caiter to palmOS fans, include all the loved features and productivity to webOS, - as well as work with developers to get them to port over apps to the new OS. PalmOS had 30,000 apps, webOS still has less than a quarter of that.
    I'm hoping the reason for Palm's "quietness" is they are substantially beefing up their PIM functionality. They know that was their bread and butter in the PalmOS days. They need to bring people back. IMHO, they need to announce a good 4G story, a tablet story, and a good PIM story at CES and (a) device(s) that implement such a story withing 2-4 weeks after CES. I'm not sure how close they will come to what I think would be their ideal scenario, but users are getting impatient so they will have to act fast!
    Last edited by sudoer; 12/29/2010 at 10:12 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. #5  
    While I agree that Palm could have done more to leverage the palmOS and PDA legacy software that had a tremendous following; they also needed to move the OS in a new direction that appealed to the general market of social networking and gaming. I don’t feel that Palm had overly catered to the early adopters but didn’t anchor their new web based business model well because of slow implementation of a global app catalog and poor advertising. Palm and Windows Mobile are not dead; they are just still trying to find their proper user base.
    Last edited by not-yet-pre; 12/29/2010 at 10:17 AM.
    Palm m130 > Verizon Trēo 650 > Verizon Trēo 755p > Verizon Palm Prē Plus > TouchPad > Verizon Palm Prē 2
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  6.    #6  
    Palm OS and Windows Mobile are dead. They died because Palm and Microsoft tried to cater these platforms to their existing PDA-using user base while Apple and RIM came along and gave non-smartphone users to reasons buy smartphones.
  7. #7  
    Just to fill in perspective, their talking about OS platforms so with that said PalmOS was not owned by Palm but by PalmSource -> Access to which they failed to renovate the platform in time.

    Also PalmOS and WinMO died due to reaching their end of innovation to the current market demands and were purposefully mothballed for newer OS. PalmOS was replaced with ALP and WinMo was evolved into Windows Phone.

    Also Palm never catered 100% to us addicts here and nor should they. We have a track here that when we want a feature we tend to not QQ Palm for it but make it ourselves and if it works out THEN it catches their fancy and adopt it. All I can say about that article is meh....
    Try diplomacy first. You can always conquer them later...

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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Palm OS and Windows Mobile are dead. They died because Palm and Microsoft tried to cater these platforms to their existing PDA-using user base while Apple and RIM came along and gave non-smartphone users to reasons buy smartphones.
    I can't see how you can say that WebOS caters to the existing PalmOS user base. I believe Palm lacked sufficient advance testing of their hardware to validate the robustness of their design. (Their sucky advertising didn't help at the beginning, but in the end it was their crappy hardware that put them in a position where HP now has to perform CPR on an otherwise dying company.)

    Maybe what you say is true in the case of Windows Mobile, but WM7 looks to be an example of clearly learning from such mistakes and building a product that real users may want. I guess "time will tell" if Microsoft did the proper market research this time. I'd agree that both Microsoft's and Palm's reputations are currently seriously damaged and I think that might be an even bigger hurdle than technology for them each to overcome. Wow-factor (advertising spend) is probably needed to fix that side of things.
    Last edited by sudoer; 12/29/2010 at 10:29 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  9.    #9  
    I'm not sure what "reaching their end of innovation" means. Palm OS and Windows Mobile completely dominated the PDA market 5-10 years ago and Palm even had some success in the smartphone market with Treos and Centros. They were the logical heirs to the mobile computing throne but have been relegated to the also-rans of the market over the past few years. The companies should have been able to, but failed to innovate.

    I can't imagine that this was a strategically planned transition - to give up all of your market share to a platform based on a pager, an MP3 player or an internet search company, "miss a cycle" (Microsoft), sell the company (Palm), and have to start from scratch in 2011. That's more like a total failure.
    Last edited by UntidyGuy; 12/29/2010 at 11:06 AM.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I'm not sure what "reaching their end of innovation" means. ...
    (not that I said the above, but) It means that Apple came along and completely wrote a new set of rules.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11.    #11  
    I would argue that the market sets the rules and one of them is that you shouldn't target your smartphone innovation at your existing PDA users because the company who targets cell phone users, pager users or media player users, instead, will eat your lunch.

    Palm had the right idea with the "fat middle" - they just didn't execute the software, the hardware, or the marketing very well. Apple and Android did it much better in late 2009 and 2010.
  12. #12  
    I'll disagree with you on the software (other than the patching strategy, but even that is better than what other companies are doing). They were a company with limited resources - given those constraints, they executed superbly on the software side of things.

    PS: UntidyGuy - I like the way you think!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-pre View Post
    While I agree that Palm could have done more to leverage the palmOS and PDA legacy software that had a tremendous following; they also needed to move the OS in a new direction that appealed to the general market of social networking and gaming. I donít feel that Palm had overly catered to the early adopters but didnít anchor their new web based business model well because of slow implementation of a global app catalog and poor advertising. Palm and Windows Mobile are not dead; they are just still trying to find their proper user base.
    I know, but it kinda seems like a step backwards nearly 2 years into webOS and it still doesn't have the voice commands or core app features to accomplish everything the old OS did.

    webOS is a step in the right direction, it's just Palm hasn't done enough to make the platform a mature successor to PalmOS. I'm hoping this will change, but am doubtful. Android's updates keep adding features, while most of Palm's updates are minor and mostly bug fixes. It's sad that with over 400 patches for webOS exist, less than a dozen of them have been incorporated into the core OS - meaning that mainstream users who don't homebrew will have to go without. :/

    So let's hope that at CES (or whenever HPalm chooses to announce stuff) that new kicka­ss hardware will be announced along with a future version of webOS with badly needed core application updates.
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    If you have a complaint/request relating to webOS please use the Feedback & Feature Requests Form at the official site.

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