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  1. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #81  
    I'm getting in line for the Sprint Pre 2. I don't think I can wait till Palm comes out with something else new.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by stu5797 View Post
    sirata... Can I be first on the waiting list for the sprint pre 2? I want to beat the rush. Lol
    haha. There definitely will be incentives for returning customers, but I was thinking price incentives as opposed to queue incentives. I guess I could bump returning customers to the front of the line instead. haha. We'll talk it over internally and see what we think is best.

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    I'm getting in line for the Sprint Pre 2. I don't think I can wait till Palm comes out with something else new.
    I'd be terribly afraid of offering a queue for the 2-ing service already since it hasn't been 100% guaranteed to work just yet. We also have a few major internal revisions to the procedures to go over, so we can't begin taking pre-orders for this procedure just yet.

    I'll definitely do this method to my own Pres instantly when it is confirmed. I've been experimenting with it for the past few weeks with very limited success, since I'm very eager as well.

    As soon as its up and running we'll definitely post an article on the site, with updated rules/prices and open up the queue!
  3. JoeDirte's Avatar
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    #83  
    Just got my plussed Pre back and it looks great. Thanks to SirataXero for putting up with my impatience and ignorance.

    My only complaint would be that I miss the pearl button on the front, but I'll get over it

    Thanks again for great service and support.
  4. #84  
    Can you do the same thing to a pixi. Would be willing to put a pixi plus on sprint to get wifi capabilities.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirte View Post
    Just got my plussed Pre back and it looks great. Thanks to SirataXero for putting up with my impatience and ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirte View Post
    My only complaint would be that I miss the pearl button on the front, but I'll get over it
    You'll get used to it. . I ended up really liking the lack of a button. It makes the phone look cleaner in the front. Also, if the screen is on, and you hold your finger down on the gesture area, the LED's pulse. That makes me smile everytime. .

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirte View Post
    Thanks again for great service and support.
    No problem! Glad you liked it and it worked out well for you. As always, please feel free to contact us with any concerns/questions/problems you may have. You weren't impatient at all, and defintiely not ignorant. .

    Quote Originally Posted by RADTECHTX View Post
    Can you do the same thing to a pixi. Would be willing to put a pixi plus on sprint to get wifi capabilities.
    Even though doing this procedure on the pixi is known to work and has been done before, I don't own a pixi and have never done it myself. I would be extremely hesitant to offer such a service and experiment on other people's devices. I'm truly sorry but I can't offer this service with peace of mind... I'd be more than willing to help walk you through it if you need any help though.
  6. #86  
    So I know that there are many difficulties with the Palm Profile when converting a Pre into a Pre 2 at this point. Is it possible to do this without using an existing Palm Profile? I've only bought a few games so would lose like $15, well worth the price of a new Pre 2 on Sprint!
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
    So I know that there are many difficulties with the Palm Profile when converting a Pre into a Pre 2 at this point. Is it possible to do this without using an existing Palm Profile? I've only bought a few games so would lose like $15, well worth the price of a new Pre 2 on Sprint!
    If the problem was only that the Palm Profile is incompatible, I'd have a Sprint Pre 2 by now. Unfortunately, it's a bit more complicated than that. Text messaging doesn't work. Data is a bit shoddy. I actually had my phone stop charging completely. There's a problem of communication between the CDMA comms board (where the power port for the battery is located) and the rest of the phone. This makes charging the battery impossible. There's also a few other problems which I wouldn't like to get into much details, but trust me when I say this: It's not worth it yet.

    The costs far FAR outweigh the benefits at this point.
  8. #88  
    Hey pointy,

    The AT&T phone is fine. You don't need that phone activated. If you opt for the discount service, you don't have to worry about it at all. If you want the phone back, you'll get your unactivated AT&T minus phone back just like you gave it to us (except in the Sprint phone body).

    I also agree that the Plus without the LED button is a lot smoother and nicer feeling (once you get used to it).

    The wait time, as of now, for new orders is a little bit over a week. I'd say about 9 or 10 days. If that works for you, go ahead and apply.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by pointy View Post
    Its too late for me, but for other people maybe you can help. I specifically looked for an at&t pre plus because of the keyboard issues on the verizon pre pluses. What is your experience with verizon pre pluses? lot of problems or is the issue made out to be more than it really is?
    I do not personally use a Verizon Pre Plus. I got my hands on an AT&T one and since i've been using it, i've had no problems. I have not heard of anyone who had the switch complain about that. I assumed the keyboard issues were tied to the Verizon Doctor which also causes GPS issues. I've done many Verizon Plusses and have not heard negative feedback from anyone, so I can't really comment on it through experience.
  10.    #90  
    sirata plussed my verizon pre plus and there are no keyboard issues. Just one very happy customer. So glad webos world plussed my pre!
  11. #91  
    Thanks for the feedback stu5797.

    I'm pretty sure the Verizon keyboard issue is tied to the Verizon Doctor and not a hardware problem...
  12. hpram99's Avatar
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    #92  
    I have to ask, why are the boards swapped out? Why not just get a CDMA Pre+ (or Pre2 when it comes out) and use QPST or another similar tool to swap out the ESN and PRL? I've seen this done on other phones when switching carriers, and this guy came close but probably didn't do it right since he didn't even use Sprints PRL. Once the ESN is in there, it is one of Sprints whitelisted ESN's and can be activated on Sprints network.
  13. #93  
    I was wondering.. if the Pre runs on a CDMA network and does not take a sim card.. how can it be Pre "twoed" since the pre 2 needs a sim card.. would you need to activate a sim card?
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by pointy View Post
    That would surprise me. If it was software, I would think Palm could fix that very easily.

    Sirata, I got the "confirmation" email almost a week ago. But never got a follow-up with shipping directions. Did I miss something?
    Hey Pointy,

    I assumed its software, I haven't heard of anyone having the issues with their plus after it's been swapped out. Also, I think Verizon gets the software from Palm, and then goes through and limits thigns (i.e. GPS) etc. So they probably messed something up in that process. Also, when you get the confirmation email, I guess I should word it better to be honest, but you have to reply back and verify everything is correct. Then you get your follow-up with shipping and payment details.

    Quote Originally Posted by hpram99 View Post
    I have to ask, why are the boards swapped out? Why not just get a CDMA Pre+ (or Pre2 when it comes out) and use QPST or another similar tool to swap out the ESN and PRL? I've seen this done on other phones when switching carriers, and this guy came close but probably didn't do it right since he didn't even use Sprints PRL. Once the ESN is in there, it is one of Sprints whitelisted ESN's and can be activated on Sprints network.
    Quote Originally Posted by pointy View Post
    I'm not an authority on this so dont flame me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is because the boards are set to receive different wavelengths corresponding to the different networks.

    That or maybe it is illegal to switch an ESN.

    I will admit, I've wondered this exact same thing. If it was possible, then you could swap virtually any Verizon phone onto Sprints network.
    I believe the primary reason is because ESN swapping is illegal. Yes, you can probably do it this way, I haven't done it so I don't know, but I assume it would be similar. However, it is illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by amunir View Post
    I was wondering.. if the Pre runs on a CDMA network and does not take a sim card.. how can it be Pre "twoed" since the pre 2 needs a sim card.. would you need to activate a sim card?
    Well, the whole point of this swap is that we swap out the inside part of the Pre 2 that takes sim cards, and put in the CDMA part of the Sprint minus. It's the same process going from the ATT Pre Plus to a Sprint Pre Plus. We take out the CDMA part of the Sprint Minus and put it into the ATT Plus, and we take out the SIM card part of the ATT Pre Plus and put it in the Sprint Minus. This procedure then gives us two phones: A Sprint Pre Plus and an ATT Pre Minus.

    Similar concept applies to the Pre 2.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    I believe the primary reason is because ESN swapping is illegal. Yes, you can probably do it this way, I haven't done it so I don't know, but I assume it would be similar. However, it is illegal.
    That is false.

    It is not illegal to tweak your own hardware anyway you see fit. It is YOUR property. If there is anything that this country is founded upon, it's property rights!!

    The only way ESN swapping would be illegal is if you tried to use two phones at the same time, while only paying for one. Or if you took the new ESN from a phone that didn't belong to you, or you straight up stole your new phone [or knew it was stolen]. Or, say, if you wanted to get a 4G phone (which requires a $80/mo plan) working on Sprint's $30/mo SERO plan. Then you're intending to defraud Sprint out of $50/mo.

    A Pre2 isn't 4G, so we can infer from their pricing scheme that Sprint would only accept $70/mo for the Pre2, which is what most of us are already paying. No fraud here.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    That is false.

    It is not illegal to tweak your own hardware anyway you see fit. It is YOUR property. If there is anything that this country is founded upon, it's property rights!!

    The only way ESN swapping would be illegal is if you tried to use two phones at the same time, while only paying for one. Or if you took the new ESN from a phone that didn't belong to you, or you straight up stole your new phone [or knew it was stolen]. Or, say, if you wanted to get a 4G phone (which requires a $80/mo plan) working on Sprint's $30/mo SERO plan. Then you're intending to defraud Sprint out of $50/mo.

    A Pre2 isn't 4G, so we can infer from their pricing scheme that Sprint would only accept $70/mo for the Pre2, which is what most of us are already paying. No fraud here.
    I am sorry, but you are incorrect. Radio Frequencies are regulated by the FCC and as such, you cannot do anything you want to an FCC licensed device (ie. your phone). Here is a quote from a super moderator on the the Sprint forums

    Changing an ESN is a federal crime, per FCC regulations.

    Why is it illegal? Because the FCC is the authority that allows for the use of radio frequencies. They do not allow you to alter "approved" devices in most any way. As the ESN number is assigned to the device in manufacturing, and licensed by the FCC, it can not be changed by you for any reason.

    It is the same general thing as changing the VIN number of as car to make something that was stolen, didn't get its loan paid off, or otherwise was not acceptable for registration around the rules established. The reasoning for changing the number does not matter. ESN's and VIN's get "blacklisted" for similar reasons:

    Item lost / stolen. The insurance company likely now owns the "lost" item, be it a motor vehicle or a phone.

    Item not "satisfied" on its agreement. With a motor vehicle, that can be that the loan or lease payments have not been made. In that case, the vehicle is subject to repossession. With phones, an ETF is applied and the carrier chooses not to allow its activation till the bill is satisfied.
    HERE is the link to that post.
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  17. #97  
    For those wanting a more thorough and documented source on ESN use in this context please see THIS LINK

    In particular Section C, paragraphs 9 and 13.
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
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  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by pointy View Post
    I did reply, and never heard back. I will try again. Can you check your junk mail if, maybe I am getting caught by junk filters?
    Got it. Sorry about that.

    I guess email still isn't 100% reliable... haha.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    I am sorry, but you are incorrect. Radio Frequencies are regulated by the FCC and as such, you cannot do anything you want to an FCC licensed device (ie. your phone). Here is a quote from a super moderator on the the Sprint forums

    HERE is the link to that post.
    Yea, Dan @ SU is not any legitimate authority when it comes to the law. So sorry.

    It is the same general thing as changing the VIN number of as car to make something that was stolen, didn't get its loan paid off, or otherwise was not acceptable for registration around the rules established. The reasoning for changing the number does not matter. ESN's and VIN's get "blacklisted" for similar reasons:

    Item lost / stolen. The insurance company likely now owns the "lost" item, be it a motor vehicle or a phone.

    Item not "satisfied" on its agreement. With a motor vehicle, that can be that the loan or lease payments have not been made. In that case, the vehicle is subject to repossession. With phones, an ETF is applied and the carrier chooses not to allow its activation till the bill is satisfied.
    You should notice that in his post, there is a rebuttable presumption that you are attempting to commit fraud by doing this ESN swap. I have already clarified that it is very possible for someone to own a Pre 1 & Pre 2, and as it being their property, and as Sprint has NO PROBLEM with accepting $70/mo in exchange for 3G CDMA service, THEN THERE HAS BEEN NO LAW BROKEN!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    For those wanting a more thorough and documented source on ESN use in this context please see THIS LINK

    In particular Section C, paragraphs 9 and 13.
    At least we can get somewhere with this document. Here are the paragraphs that you found relevant...

    C. Cellular Electronic Serial Numbers

    9. To combat the problem of cellular fraud, we adopted a new rule in the Part 22 Order
    requiring cellular telephone manufacturers to install unalterable electronic serial numbers (ESNs)
    in all new cellular telephone equipment
    for which type-acceptance is sought after January 1,
    1995. Specifically, the new Section 22.919(c) of the Rules provides that the ESN must be
    factory set and must not be "alterable, transferable, removable or otherwise able to be
    manipulated." The purpose of this requirement is to prevent the reprogramming of cellular
    telephones with unauthorized or "cloned" ESNs.
    In adopting this requirement, we stated that
    the new rule would not require modification or retrofitting of existing cellular equipment. We
    noted, however, that anyone who altered the ESN of a cellular telephone or who used such a
    telephone knowing the ESN was altered would be in violation of the Communications Act and
    our rules.


    ...

    13. Second, we are not persuaded that either manufacturers or cellular customers will
    be irreparably harmed if the stay motion is not granted. The new ESN rule applies only to new
    equipment receiving type acceptance after January 1, 1995. Thus, manufacturers may continue
    to produce equipment under previous type-acceptances without being required to install hardened
    ESNs. Furthermore, the new rules will not make "in the field" equipment repairs impossible:
    as CTIA points out, authorized service centers may continue to make repairs that involve
    switching circuit boards with factory-set ESNs so long as they notify the carrier of the change.

    Finally, we agree with CTIA that the cost of implementing the new rule must be weighed against
    the far greater cost of allowing ESN "cloning" to go virtually unchecked if the rule is not
    implemented.
    We therefore conclude that TIA's motion for stay should be denied.
    All of that has to do with manufacturers & carriers, not your average Joe Sixpack!!!

    It straight up says it right there that we adopted a new rule requiring cell phone manufacturers.

    It also mentions that "anyone" who alters or knows the ESN was altered is in violation of the Communications Act and the FCC's rules. Well, the FCC's rules don't apply to Joe Sixpack, unless he implied (perhaps even thru silent acquiescence) that he consented to those internal rules.

    Now let's take a look at the Communications Act, which is just a statute that you ARE NOT necessarily bound by. Statutes and Acts are rules of a society... and whether you choose to be apart of that society or not is not up to that society. It would suck to live in a free society where you MUST claim that you are a national, now wouldn't it!?

    Communications Act of 1934: as amended by Telecom Act of 1996

    COMMUNICATIONS ACT OF 1934

    TITLE I--GENERAL PROVISIONS
    SEC. 1. [47 U.S.C. 151] PURPOSES OF ACT, CREATION OF FEDERAL
    COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION.
    For the purpose of regulating interstate and foreign commerce in communication by wire and
    radio
    so as to make available, so far as possible, to all the people of the United States, without
    discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex, a rapid, efficient, Nation-
    wide, and world-wide wire and radio communication service with adequate facilities at reasonable
    charges, for the purpose of the national defense, for the purpose of promoting safety of life and
    property through the use of wire and radio communication, and for the purpose of securing a more
    effective execution of this policy by centralizing authority
    heretofore granted by law to several
    agencies and by granting additional authority with respect to interstate and foreign commerce in wire
    and radio communication, there is hereby created a commission to be known as the ''Federal
    Communications Commission,''
    which shall be constituted as hereinafter provided, and which shall
    execute and enforce the provisions of this Act.

    SEC. 2. [47 U.S.C. 152] APPLICATION OF ACT.
    (a) The provisions of this act shall apply to all interstate and foreign communication by wire
    or radio and all interstate and foreign transmission of energy by radio, which originates and/or is
    received within the United States, and to all persons engaged within the United States in such
    communication or such transmission of energy by radio
    , and to the licensing and regulating of all
    radio stations as hereinafter provided; but it shall not apply to persons engaged in wire or radio
    communication or transmission in the Canal Zone, or to wire or radio communication or transmission
    wholly within the Canal Zone. The provisions of this Act shall apply with respect to cable service, to
    all persons engaged within the United States in providing such service, and to the facilities of cable
    operators
    which relate to such service, as provided in title VI.
    (b) Except as provided in sections 223 through 227, inclusive, and section 332, and subject
    to the provisions of section 301 and title VI, nothing in this Act shall be construed to apply or to give
    the Commission jurisdiction with respect to
    (1) charges, classifications, practices, services, facilities,
    or regulations for or in connection with intrastate communication service by wire or radio of any
    carrier
    , or (2) any carrier engaged in interstate or foreign communication solely through physical
    connection with the facilities of another carrier
    not directly or indirectly controlling or controlled by,
    or under direct or indirect common control with such carrier, or (3) any carrier engaged in interstate
    or foreign communication solely through connection by radio, or by wire and radio, with facilities,
    located in an adjoining State or in Canada or Mexico (where they adjoin the State in which the carrier
    is doing business
    ), of another carrier not directly or indirectly controlling or controlled by, or under
    direct or indirect common control with such carrier, or (4) any carrier to which clause (2) or clause
    (3) would be applicable except for furnishing interstate mobile radio communication service or radio
    communication service to mobile stations on land vehicles in Canada or Mexico; except that sections
    201 through 205 of this Act, both inclusive, shall, except as otherwise provided therein, apply to
    carriers described in clauses (2), (3), and (4).

    SEC. 3. [47 U.S.C. 153] DEFINITIONS.
    For the purposes of this Act, unless the context otherwise requires--

    (32) PERSON.--The term ''person'' includes an individual, partnership, association,
    joint-stock company, trust, or corporation.

    ...

    SEC. 4. [47 U.S.C. 154] PROVISIONS RELATING TO THE COMMISSION.
    (a) The Federal Communications Commission (in this Act referred to as the ''Commission'')
    shall be composed of five Commissioners appointed by the President, by and with the advice and
    consent of the Senate, one of whom the President shall designate as chairman.
    (b)(1) Each member of the Commission shall be a citizen of the United States.
    (2)(A) No member of the Commission or person employed by the Commission shall--
    (i) be financially interested in any company or other entity engaged in the manufacture
    or sale of telecommunications equipment
    which is subject to regulation by the Commission;
    (ii) be financially interested in any company or other entity engaged in the business of
    communication by wire or radio or in the use of the electromagnetic spectrum;
    (iii) be financially interested in any company or other entity which controls any
    company or other entity
    specified in clause (i) or clause (ii), or which derives a significant
    portion of its total income from ownership of stocks, bonds, or other securities of any such
    company or other entity
    ; or
    (iv) be employed by, hold any official relation to, or own any stocks, bonds, or other
    securities of, any person significantly regulated by the Commission under this Act;
    except that the prohibitions established in this subparagraph shall apply only to financial
    interests in any company or other entity which has a significant interest in communications,
    manufacturing, or sales activities which are subject to regulation by the Commission.

    ...
    (3) The Commission, in determining whether a company or other entity has a significant
    interest in communications, manufacturing, or sales activities which are subject to regulation by the
    Commission
    , shall consider (without excluding other relevant factors)--
    (A) the revenues, investments, profits, and managerial efforts directed to the related
    communications, manufacturing, or sales activities of the company or other entity involved,
    as compared to the other aspects of the business of such company or other entity;
    (B) the extent to which the Commission regulates and oversees the activities of such
    company or other entity;
    (C) the degree to which the economic interests of such company or other entity may
    be affected by any action of the Commission; and
    (D) the perceptions held by the public regarding the business activities of such
    company or other entity.
    Are you starting to get the idea that the FCC doesn't regulate Joe Sixpack yet?? They regulate those in the communications industry, which engage in commerce.

    If Joe Sixpack wants a Pre 2 on Sprint, and Sprint won't give him one... then he has every right to alter his currently owned Pre 1 and Pre 2 to make it work, so long as he isn't paying any less monies than Sprint ubiquitously publishes today as a fair price for them.

    But Mister Sirata might want to consider Section C, Paragraph 13 that you found alright. Looks like contacting the carrier would be necessary in order to do this legitimately, unless Sirata is accepting lawful money (gold, silver, labor) instead of Federal Reserve Notes, which is highly unlikely.
  20. #100  
    Hey guys, I appreciate the feedback, but I'm going to stick with "it's illegal" for me because I can't guarantee that the person I'm doing it for will follow the rules, officially owns both phones, etc.

    Let's get this thread back on track, please.

    Thanks.
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