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  1.    #1  
    After spending much time trying to figure out why my Pre eats batteries it came down to sleeping. The firmware wouldn't (couldn't) enter "extreme power save" mode. That is the state powerd (Palm's power management daemon) is supposed to put the Pre in when you hit the power button while on battery.

    I don't know the exact reason why powerd can't put my phone into that sleep state. But, the attempts and failures (about 1 a second) keep the CPU loaded and the Pre sucking battery. For me it eats about 200 mA every hour. And with a 6 month old Pre battery that had only 750 mAh of life that means a run time under 4 hours. If you had a better battery you would probably see about +12% of your battery used per hour.

    I haven't figured out what is keeping the Pre out of extreme power save. So I gave up for now. I figured I would try Nodoze and never let my phone even try to "sleep".


    With Nodoze my Pre is now using only 100 mA hour. I doubled my battery life.


    Running Nodoze keeps my phone from trashing the storage system logging all the failures and the load average stays around zero rather then the 30+ without running Nodoze. So my advice ... if you are seeing 10% to 20% drop in your battery an hour when your phone is not doing anything try the following.

    1) Install and run Nodoze.

    2) Keep all cards closed when you aren't actively using them.

    If your phone is having the same problem as me ( and I'm assuming most people with the fast drain problem probably do ) you may double your run times. Please post if this helps you. Because if it does help it points to a problem that Palm really needs to fix ... Powerd.
  2. rkguy's Avatar
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    #2  
    Where can I check this?
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    Where can I check this?
    The real check is to look at /var/log/messages for the failures. If you have Terminal installed a quick check is to open Terminal, hit the power button, wait 30 seconds, and hit the power button again. If you see lots of ...

    powerd: System going to sleep now
    powerd: System woke up

    then you have the same problem as me. If you only see one of each then your Pre is going to extreme power save correctly.
  4. #4  
    I just wanted to resurrect this thread from last night and I must say; you may be on to something quite interesting. I am one of many with major battery related issues. When using my phone and leave it idle for about half an hour, the battery gets depleted by approximately 10%. According to data from Dr. Battery, I had a battery health of 53%. I reached my wits end and purchased a brand new battery day before yesterday but disappointingly, there was no significant change in the rate of drainage. I came across your post, did as instructed and with a fully charged battery of 100%, watched an episode of Curb and Friends. My battery life was at an impressive 92%!!! This is consistent with your non-rudimentary calculation of 100 mA/hr in battery drain/gain. The irony that “No Doze” may be the silver bullet that alleviates the Pre’s chronic battery drainage is quite amusing. I also looked at the log for Terminals and saw a ton of repetitious “System going to sleep” and “System woke up” at intervals of 2 seconds (wow). It was very interesting to note that the time frame it took me to run terminals and look at the log file (Roughly 5 minutes); I lost 2% of my battery life. I left my Pre off the charger overnight (2:15AM) to see what it read come today and at 9:15AM; it is at 80%. This seems promising and I certainly encourage others to look into this approach at dealing with the battery issue. Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by activedodger; 10/27/2010 at 08:32 AM.


    "How art thou, thou globby bottle of cheap, stinking chip oil? Come and get one in the yarbles, if ya have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"
  5. #5  
    I'll try anything that can give me a longer battery life on my phone. I'm tired of carrying two spare batteries with me. I hope this does work for me though.


    Thanks for the tip.


    Regards,
  6. #6  
    I am using a mugan,i keep my gps off and my email accounts to mannual. Yesterday I was in market for 2 hours.did not use my phone but it rang a few times. When I got home it was still on 100 percent. Ok when I started using it again it dropped to 96 right away,but stil,very happy with this.
  7. djmcgee's Avatar
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    #7  
    Good tip.

    I understand all the work-arounds to improve battery life but it just sucks that you cannot use the phones' features as they were intended and still get a full workday out of a battery.

    This is just not right.
    Dan
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by activedodger View Post
    The irony that “No Doze” may be the silver bullet that alleviates the Pre’s chronic battery drainage is quite amusing.
    This isn't a silver bullet as much as a band-aid to slow the bleeding. The real problem is that our phones can't get into the lowest power state. The state just above it (screen off, storage mounted, and applications running) is working just fine. And Nodoze keeps it at that level.

    But, if the phone tries to go to the lowest state it fails and then immediately retries and fails and immediately retries ... on and on. If it could get to the lowest state you would see essentially no power lost over night. Which is why this is a band-aid.

    What I quit working on (because of life and time and skill) was to find what is keeping powerd from working correctly. The battery drain is just a symptom of THAT bug. Squash that bug and LOTS of Pre users will rejoice. A terrible fix in powerd would be to hard code the total number of failures. If it fails to get to extreme save in 5 tries ... disable that state entirely.

    For now, at least, disabling the lowest state via Nodoze will slow the bleeding. And I can't say how happy I am to have taken my phone off the charger at 6:30am and have 90% of my 1400 Mugen battery left at 9am.

    Lastly, Somline rocks. Cause Dr. Battery is the only way to track your battery and mA's.
  9. #9  
    This might help me. I've had a really annoying battery problem the past couple of months. My phone used to do just fine, but now I'm getting that 10% drop per hour with no use. Then when i hit 20% it drops to zero about 15 minutes later. It's like the bottom 20% of my battery doesn't exist. What's odder, is that it's not consistent. Some days, I wont see any drop at all.

    I know something is running in the background. On days that my power drops, the spot right behind the keypad stays warm to the touch.

    Where can I pick up Nodoze? I looked in the app catalog, but it wasn't there.
  10. #10  
    Very interesting. My messages file was very long. I renamed it to messages.old and did a device reset. I used Internalz to check out the new messages file which was surprising long after a reboot and a few minutes.

    I did not see any messages about powerd at the end of my log file.
    Pilot 5K->Palm IIIc->Tungsten T/T2->Treo 650/680 -> Pre+ (1.4.5 & Uberkernel)
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by swieder View Post
    Very interesting. My messages file was very long. I renamed it to messages.old and did a device reset.
    In the messages.old look for blocks of messages with: "Forcing firmware into extreme power save". If you see that line repeated within about 50-ish lines. Look in the middle of them for two lines that look something like ...

    2010-09-27T20:10:51.530212Z [2369] palm-webos-device kern.info kernel: [ 2369.690000] 00065312.957: enter suspend
    2010-09-27T20:10:51.530456Z [2369] palm-webos-device kern.info kernel: [ 2369.690000] 00065312.981: leave suspend
    Notice that the enter and leave occurred within the same second. That is the bug in action.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by revyloution View Post
    Where can I pick up Nodoze? I looked in the app catalog, but it wasn't there.
    It is a homebrew app in preware ... Nodoze.
  13. tacroy's Avatar
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    #13  
    looks like I have a similar issue. Any thoughts on how we could figure out what is causing the issue? Is there any place that logs what program is requesting the "wake up"?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by tacroy View Post
    looks like I have a similar issue. Any thoughts on how we could figure out what is causing the issue? Is there any place that logs what program is requesting the "wake up"?
    arrasmith did some nice investigation here.

    EDIT: @all: As arrasmith already posted: This is only for ppl with the "don't want to sleep" problem". For "normal" users this will reduce the battery life. Follow the above link for details.

    @arrasmith: I had never thought of using nodoze for battery saving ;-) Good find.
    Last edited by somline; 10/27/2010 at 11:10 AM.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    I had never thought of using nodoze for battery saving ;-) Good find.
    Thanks. I'm just happy that it is 3 pm and after 8.5 hours of not having my phone plugged in the battery has dropped an average of about 70 mAh every hour. I've had WiFi on the entire time, no calls, no texts, and just light web browsing.

    Turning on my "As Items Arrive" option on Gmail and work email now. I have 850 mAh's left on the battery at 3 pm. At 5 pm ...?????? I'm hoping for the best.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by zmann View Post
    I am using a mugan,i keep my gps off and my email accounts to mannual. Yesterday I was in market for 2 hours.did not use my phone but it rang a few times. When I got home it was still on 100 percent. Ok when I started using it again it dropped to 96 right away,but stil,very happy with this.
    The percentages you see on your phone are rough values. Use Dr. Battery to get a better look at actually use. An example experiment ...

    Open Dr. Battery and write down the time and mAh value. Close it and all unneeded cards and go about your day. After a couple of hours open Dr. Battery and write down the time, mAh value, and stuff you did. Run some individual apps to keep open and after a couple of hours check Dr. Battery again. Continue with different stuff (email delivery, GPS, etc) to get different values. After you are all done calculate the mAh drop per hour used for each test.

    You can get a decent profile of power usage by doing this.
  17. rkguy's Avatar
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    #17  
    Terminal shows me a sleep or wake message every 15 seconds....however, when I close my task card (which was running) and turn of wifi (was running) and put it in airplane mode, it looks like it stopped doing it..... oppp. spoke too soon. still doing it although not on a consistent timestep. Is this considered not entering sleep state? It's not happening every second but it's happening....

    BTW I think I saw Dieter tweet or post somewhere that his standby battery life is much improved in 2.0. "Maybe they found a bug?" (spoken like "I am Ron Burgundy?")
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  18. rkguy's Avatar
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    #18  
    I think we've been worse than beta testers. The sprint peeeps expecially...alpha testers for sure (grrr)
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  19. jbuck387's Avatar
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    #19  
    is there any true fix for this bug? I was noticing a battery drain around 30-40% per hour using battery monitor, ran terminal and saw the constant sleep - wake up cycle. I'm installing nodoze, but would like a true fix. thanks for your help!

    -Joe
    delbois likes this.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbuck387 View Post
    is there any true fix for this bug?
    Not that I know of. I've said before that I believe this is a hardware bug. But, there is a large gap between believe and know.

    Things I've thought about to 'fix' it:

    1) Code powerd to handle the bug correctly. Either force the phone to sleep by coding around the hardware bug, or just give up on making it sleep at all.

    2) See if I can run a mojo app from the command line that is just a mojo call to not let the phone sleep. Or find a system call that sets powerd to never sleep.

    The first would be a fix. The second would be nodoze without a user interface.
    uptherams likes this.
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