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  1.    #1  
    This information is in another thread, but I thought I'd make a separate thread to try and get the information out more clearly. By the way, thanks to Major Payne for passing this idea along. Several of us have already filed complaints but we need more...it only takes a few minutes of your time. Here's the info:

    EVERYONE on the Verizon Pre Plus should do this!!! Here is the link:

    FCC Consumer Complaints

    Choose "wireless telephone" from the list and then click "next"

    On the next page, I would choose "Deceptive or unlawful advertising or marketing by a communications company" and then click "next"

    On the next plage, click to fill out the online form.

    You'll then fill out a form 2000A with your personal information in the top box. In the second part of the form, you'll fill out the information only in #1 as that applies to wireless carriers. You get 1000 words to describe your complaint. FYI: Our complaint is that Verizon originally sold the Pre Plus while listing aGPS as one of its included features. Nowhere was it stated or implied that VZ Navigator was required for aGPS to work. Verizon has since altered their website to remove aGPS from the list of included features. This constitutes a breach of contract by Verizon. (It may not be a bad idea to mention that Verizon admitted to blocking GPS on other devices in the past.)


    Let's all quit waiting around and complaining to each other on here about it and take action. For the naysayers, sure this MAY not work, but doing nothing will DEFINITELY not work.
  2. #2  
    I am def doing this !
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Delawareduff View Post
    I am def doing this !
    Awesome! Thanks for your participation.

    It'd be nice to keep a running tally on here of people who have filed a complaint. If you pass this info along to a VZ Pre Plus user who isn't on this forum and they file a complaint, be sure to let us know about it.
  4. #4  
    Interesting. Does your contract with Verizon say you will have unfettered access to aGPS? I doubt it.

    Companies do advertising like this all the time. Look at all the new cars being sold with satellite radio, must they include that in order to receive the signal you have to sign up for service?

    All vzw would have to say is once notified that their advertising was incorrect, they changed so as to not deliberately mislead customers.

    In order to satisfy customers they may have to allow you to return your device or swap to one that does provide aGPS, but there is no way any agency, the FCC included, can force vzw or Palm to fix this issue.

    Don't get me wrong, you have evry right to be ticked, but I don't think there was any intent to deceive on vzw's part (which is what would be necessary to prevail legally).

    Let's take this all the way out. Let's say this is massively successful and it makes major headlines that VZW and Palm masively mislead customers and were forced to pay fines, fix phones, etc. What will the ultimate result be?? Every smartphone consumer will know how deceptive Palm (and vzw) are and that will influence their purchasing decision. Net result? webOS use declines (or does not grow as fast as HP would like) and they pull the plug on producing smartphones with webOS all together.
  5. #5  
    I did this several months ago and received a nice form letter from the FCC acknowledging my complaint. However the letter did not mention a course of action to be taken by the FCC. I also filed a complaint with Verizon on their Service Forum and received a phone call from a Verizon service advisor. The call lasted several minutes and ended with Verizon denying that the problem exists. They also offered to allow me to switch phones or replace my Pre Plus with another one. I don’t think that Verizon is going to budge on this issue as long as they can sell the Verizon Navigator service for $10.00 per month.
    Palm m130 > Verizon Trēo 650 > Verizon Trēo 755p > Verizon Palm Prē Plus > TouchPad > Verizon Palm Prē 2
    ~ The Future's Just Not What it Used To Be ~
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Look at all the new cars being sold with satellite radio, must they include that in order to receive the signal you have to sign up for service?
    Actually this is not deceiving because it is paid for a year sometimes two when you purchase the vehicle before you have to pay for the service. (has a cousin who owns a dealership). Same way with Onstar it's paid for a year before you have to decide if you want to continue the service.
  7. joe8617's Avatar
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    #7  
    I'm wondering...maybe the complaint should be, in essence, that the Verizon software is unlawfully interfering with radio signals that should otherwise be received. This is the kind of complaint that the FCC responds to. Just an idea....haven't thought it all the way through.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Interesting. Does your contract with Verizon say you will have unfettered access to aGPS? I doubt it.

    Companies do advertising like this all the time. Look at all the new cars being sold with satellite radio, must they include that in order to receive the signal you have to sign up for service?

    All vzw would have to say is once notified that their advertising was incorrect, they changed so as to not deliberately mislead customers.

    In order to satisfy customers they may have to allow you to return your device or swap to one that does provide aGPS, but there is no way any agency, the FCC included, can force vzw or Palm to fix this issue.

    Don't get me wrong, you have evry right to be ticked, but I don't think there was any intent to deceive on vzw's part (which is what would be necessary to prevail legally).

    Let's take this all the way out. Let's say this is massively successful and it makes major headlines that VZW and Palm masively mislead customers and were forced to pay fines, fix phones, etc. What will the ultimate result be?? Every smartphone consumer will know how deceptive Palm (and vzw) are and that will influence their purchasing decision. Net result? webOS use declines (or does not grow as fast as HP would like) and they pull the plug on producing smartphones with webOS all together.
    If Verizon wants to claim that it's simply a misunderstanding of advertising, then I think they would be forced to explain why all the other smartphones they advertise as having aGPS have unfettered aGPS access.
  9. #9  
    Only problem is, its not deceptive advertising, as they never advertised free GPS
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  10. Queueyou's Avatar
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    #10  
    The phone itself is 100% capable of doing / using (non assisted) GPS without using the services of Verizon. That means that the phone you buy is purposely gimped in order to cause you to pay for an extra 'service' for something your phone can do anyway. That in itself, is what's wrong.
  11. Speebs's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Interesting. Does your contract with Verizon say you will have unfettered access to aGPS? I doubt it.

    Companies do advertising like this all the time. Look at all the new cars being sold with satellite radio, must they include that in order to receive the signal you have to sign up for service?

    All vzw would have to say is once notified that their advertising was incorrect, they changed so as to not deliberately mislead customers.

    In order to satisfy customers they may have to allow you to return your device or swap to one that does provide aGPS, but there is no way any agency, the FCC included, can force vzw or Palm to fix this issue.

    Don't get me wrong, you have evry right to be ticked, but I don't think there was any intent to deceive on vzw's part (which is what would be necessary to prevail legally).

    Let's take this all the way out. Let's say this is massively successful and it makes major headlines that VZW and Palm masively mislead customers and were forced to pay fines, fix phones, etc. What will the ultimate result be?? Every smartphone consumer will know how deceptive Palm (and vzw) are and that will influence their purchasing decision. Net result? webOS use declines (or does not grow as fast as HP would like) and they pull the plug on producing smartphones with webOS all together.
    You are obviously a lawyer very familiar with this process.
  12. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #12  
    Done. I think this is a great idea.
  13. #13  
    You folks needs to leave VZW or get used to this. It's nothing new with the way they operate business, and the fact that all the way up they CLAIM it is a security issue (which I am sure as we all know they could prove) you have no REAL case.

    Sorry I don't think it's right, but I am just being honest... Cal it what you want, but it's how things really are.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNole View Post
    Done. I think this is a great idea.
    Thanks for participating! (as opposed to replying to explain to all of us idiots why it won't work)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Thanks for participating! (as opposed to replying to explain to all of us idiots why it won't work)
    Wow you have an AWESOME attitude, all some folks are trying to explain is that this is a long term issue with the way VZW treats it's customers. Same as charging more, delaying firmware updates, etc. All while charging more for their service, I understand folks that can't get decent Sprint service, but other than that, this is a known and legal practice of VZW.

    Maybe you check the attitude and read up more on the history of VZW doing this to their customers. Also I don't recall anyone (other than yourself) calling ANYONE an "*****."
  16. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #16  
    If we are complacent as Verizon customers, Verizon will continue to abuse their customers. The proper way to complain against a telecommunications company is through an FCC complaint.

    This is the right thing to do, IMO.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    You are obviously a lawyer very familiar with this process.
    No, just tired of people whining thinking companies need to bend over backwards to meet their demands, you are not going to make a company do something that it does not want to do, nor has any legal obligation to do. It is the whole "victims society" we now live in, we no longer have to worry about our own actions we can always blame someone else.

    If you purchase a product and it does not perform as it should, then return it and get a different one. If you wait beyond the warranty period to see if it is going to get fixed, then the company has no obligation to you. Sure, shame on the company, but this is business.

    Jonathan I Ezor went on the offensive and took this issue to very high levels (see article he wrote here: http://www.precentral.net/verizon-wi...at-gps-issue-0). In the end what happened? VZW extended his 30-day Worry Free Guarantee return period. I applaud Jonathan's efforts, and I do feel that you all are getting stuck by VZW, but do something that will get their attention! Vote with your dollars!

    If you really want to make a statement, return your phone, cancel your service with them and move to a different carrier. That will be heard much more loudly at VZW than will these complaints. Everyone is going to have to make their own decision.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Wow you have an AWESOME attitude, all some folks are trying to explain is that this is a long term issue with the way VZW treats it's customers. Same as charging more, delaying firmware updates, etc. All while charging more for their service, I understand folks that can't get decent Sprint service, but other than that, this is a known and legal practice of VZW.

    Maybe you check the attitude and read up more on the history of VZW doing this to their customers. Also I don't recall anyone (other than yourself) calling ANYONE an "*****."
    Look, as I stated in my original post, we all understand there's a chance this may not work. We don't need to be lectured like we're a bunch of ignorant cornpones on why this may not work. Why anyone even felt the need to reply to this thread explaining anything is beyond me. If you don't want to participate and file a complaint, then don't. Nobody would fault you for sitting on the sidelines. But don't bother us with your history lessons on how Verizon conducts business, why they may be legally allowed to hamper aGPS, etc. We already know all of that. I simply put this thread out there to let people know that this is an option. The absolute last thing we needed was a bunch of finger-waggers replying and shooting the idea down. I didn't ask if people thought the idea would work or not, because I don't care if anyone thinks it will work or not. It's something people can do that takes less than 10 minutes of time. The worst thing that could happen is that nothing could happen, but maybe something would happen. Who knows?

    To all who have filed complaints, THANK YOU. Get the word out.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    No, just tired of people whining thinking companies need to bend over backwards to meet their demands, you are not going to make a company do something that it does not want to do, nor has any legal obligation to do. It is the whole "victims society" we now live in, we no longer have to worry about our own actions we can always blame someone else.

    If you purchase a product and it does not perform as it should, then return it and get a different one. If you wait beyond the warranty period to see if it is going to get fixed, then the company has no obligation to you. Sure, shame on the company, but this is business.

    Jonathan I Ezor went on the offensive and took this issue to very high levels (see article he wrote here: http://www.precentral.net/verizon-wi...at-gps-issue-0). In the end what happened? VZW extended his 30-day Worry Free Guarantee return period. I applaud Jonathan's efforts, and I do feel that you all are getting stuck by VZW, but do something that will get their attention! Vote with your dollars!

    If you really want to make a statement, return your phone, cancel your service with them and move to a different carrier. That will be heard much more loudly at VZW than will these complaints. Everyone is going to have to make their own decision.
    YES! You DO get it! I absolutely demand that a company lives up to its obligations and stand behind the products they sell and the claims they make. VZ sold the Pre Plus and marketed it as having aGPS...with no disclaimers. Period. I expect them to live up to that.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNole View Post
    If we are complacent as Verizon customers, Verizon will continue to abuse their customers. The proper way to complain against a telecommunications company is through an FCC complaint.

    This is the right thing to do, IMO.
    Exactly. Some would make us out to be a bunch of crybabies b/c we expect VZ to live up to their word. There's a lot of features the Pre Plus doesn't have, but we aren't complaining to VZ about those features...b/c they didn't tell us it had those features. They DID tell us it had aGPS. They didn't say it was aGPS "capable" or aGPS "ready". They simply said "this phone has aGPS". Why SHOULDN'T they be expected to fulfill that promise?

    What some fail to understand is that organizations like the Better Business Bureau exist for a reason. The FCC has a complaint department where you can specifically file a complaint about deceptive advertising against a wireless telephone carrier for a reason. We're not creating some new, exotic way to complain. We're simply taking advantage of opportunities that have been made available to consumers to file complaints against companies that refuse to honor their word.

    Notice that the FCC has the category for filing a complaint regarding "deceptive advertising". It doesn't say the company had to flat-out lie. Can anyone rational person deny that VZ was at the very least deceptive when they marketed the Pre Plus as having aGPS?
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