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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    Then how can Or how can 12 chaps in Australia (Weos internals) or one Canadian(Jason Robitaille) do more in one year than the entire company?

    4X4 icons and more pages could not be that hard! led notifications... took forever!
    I can name quite a few reasons

    1. They don't have to send anything to carriers for approval
    2. They don't have to make sure code they use is going to work with other future changes being planned to made
    3. They don't have to (although I'm sure they do) validate that what they do put out actually works
    4. They don't spend part of their time working on other issues. Let's face it those who put out new features in a device are also the ones responsible for fixing bugs that appear.

    So let's way the two options either fix no bugs and put out all the features users want or fix the bugs and put in the features as we go along.

    It's great all the stuff webOS internals and Jason has done for the Palm community, but they don't have to deal with half the stuff that Palm has to deal with.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by brendu View Post
    maybe they were too busy refurbishing all the returned pres we all sent back to work on development of new hardware and software...
    Yeah, that must be it. Since most software development folks sideline as hardware folks.
  3. #23  
    Whenever somebody rhetorically asks a company what took them so long, I assume that they are jobless. Have you ever worked in a corporate environment? Do you know how working there works?

    Palm was a little company and they had to release incomplete but soon, or release not at all. What they released was functional but lacked the bells and whistles that they figured a lot of people would totally ignore (like voice dialing or voice search, for which I have no utilization but which other people want because otherwise "their phones are falling behind".
  4.    #24  
    not jobless, and I work for an academic medical center, which tends to get bogged down with bureacracy. So I have some sense of how slowly some things work. But why make this personal?
    in fact the pre already has a lot of the bells and whistles, which is one of the reasons I love the device. Great browser, 3d games, great user interface, unique form factor, gestures, mobile hotspot, nice camera, etc.
    they just forgot to include some of the
    basics of a cellphone, some things that palm has always been known for.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKinsman View Post
    I say, "they did an awful job of deciding which classic Palm PIM features to carry into webOS.
    ... and they came out of the gate with Classic, which was a great idea. But it, too, was quite buggy for at least six months (crashed all the time), lacked proper sound support (still does), and is badly supported.
  6. Speebs's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    I can name quite a few reasons

    1. They don't have to send anything to carriers for approval
    2. They don't have to make sure code they use is going to work with other future changes being planned to made
    3. They don't have to (although I'm sure they do) validate that what they do put out actually works
    4. They don't spend part of their time working on other issues. Let's face it those who put out new features in a device are also the ones responsible for fixing bugs that appear.

    So let's way the two options either fix no bugs and put out all the features users want or fix the bugs and put in the features as we go along.

    It's great all the stuff webOS internals and Jason has done for the Palm community, but they don't have to deal with half the stuff that Palm has to deal with.
    I'm assuming those 13 guys have regular jobs on top of all the stuff they do for webOS, which is why it seems so weird that a company whose purpose it is to develop the phone seemingly cannot (or will not) do the things they have done. Compatibility and debugging are kind of weak reasons, not only because what Jason and the other guys release nearly FLAWLESS stuff, but because I can't really think of a good reason why those things should take a company almost 2 years for some of these features (how about letting users beta test like Logitech and Roku do?).

    I think it's more likely that Palm is holding these things back for 2.0 purposefully so that it looks more feature-packed than it would if all this stuff was released in previous versions when it should have been.
  7. #27  
    While I fully agree that features such as microphone and camera APIs and UI hardware acceleration should have been added from the start, it is a moot point. BTW, the only phone that has an accelerated UI is the iPhone. Android does not, and the original Droid is pretty laggy as well. The pre, when overclocked to 1 Ghz, is perfectly stable and animations are very smooth. Which explains why the newer android devices are smooth as well. But how Palm expected to succeed in the marketplace with an incomplete phone and r-tarded advertising is beyond me. iPhone commercials are right to the point with what the phone does. The pre was advertised by creepy ladies to soccer moms.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think the point he was making is that if you don't like Palm not announcing what you want, you're free to choose something else.
    Yes, I did get that, but I think what you missed from mine was that people are dying for anything to hang onto Palm -- everyday that you see threads like this it is just bleeding off customers who are ready to make the change to something else.

    Palm saw a big defection of Pre users to the EVO, I can only assume that some of those that held on saying "I need a physical keyboard" will be eying the new Epic on Sprint very shortly.

    So, my point was if you are Palm, you don't want people to "choose something else", you want to get in front of that competition. You have a user base that is eroding by the day because of the lack of anything on the horizon. I'm sure there will be something coming, but is it six months from now, a year from now?

    I for one, when my year is up in September, if there is nothing on the horizon will make the jump to Android for a year to check things out on that side of the OS battle. If Palm jumps back ahead when my year with Android is up, I will be back and logging into my Palm Profile again.

    I know many have made that statement before in anger, but I don't. I make it in sadness. Because this is money that Palm is throwing down the drain. Every day that they are not announcing anything is another day that people are leaving.

    I know that there are many diehards out there who will hang until there is something, but my concern is that Palm has a loyal fan base now -- what better type of customer to have!! If they wait and wait and wait, they will have to win customers from other platforms instead of upgrading from their current customers. I guess all in all, Palm faces more of an uphill battle with every day that goes by without anything being announced...
  9. #29  
    With all due fairness to Palm, it does seem to be a contradiction when the ease of development is touted, but Palm does not implement some of the very basic missing features. One example would be the developer that demonstrated how easy it was to add "snooze control" to the clock app, complete with source code, but still have not implemented this functionality in the released version.
  10. #30  
    you summed it up pretty well, even though palm was small they werent small enough to not have just put those things with the phone in the first place
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    Hardbeatz, I understand the limited resources and prioritization aspects. But it's not like palm was starting from scratch. Many of the things I mentioned Palm has already done in the past with their handhelds and smartphones.
    On the contrary, they were in fact starting from scratch. All of the software in webOS was brand new. A big chunk of the underlying software was open source, but had to be integrated with a new device. All of the UI, all the apps, every last one of them was brand spankin' new.

    Imagine, if you will, that you're building a house. Now imagine that you don't have any other form of shelter and it is winter and you have a family with young children. At what point would you move into your new house? The Pre was Palm's new house, it was winter, and with mouths to feed, they had nowhere else to go. Given that, I think they did a remarkable job.

    But yeah, I'm looking forward to having the carpet installed too.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  12.    #32  
    I would move in when all the doors had locks on them, windows were installed, the heating was installed, and it passed inspection.

    and of course, when I have an outlet to charge my pre plus!

    but back to your analogy, the house that palm built, was built atleast around January 2009. It's now August 2010.

    I am not asking why certain hardware features are missing. Most of my concerns are regarding software features.

    again, I don't understand how complicated some of the developing is. But 20+ months seems like a long time to add software features that are basic to most phones these days. An iphone app can be ported in hours we've read, developing for webOS is easy we've heard, palm is aggressively seeking devs to make apps for it's platform. Great. But why does it take so long to get a virtual KB? 20 months??? Based on the responses thus far, palm's priorities were not so much based on adding features that would bring the phones to atleast rival it's own treo line of phones not to mention the other platforms, but rather on bringing the phone to more carriers, building up the sdk and pdk for devs, securing the software, and putting itself in a position to be brought by a company such as hp. In the meanwhile, the phone has not caught on with consumers or maintained their consumer base. Myself and others in this community, who have tinkered with webOS to optimize it to our liking, are not the ones with the problems. We think "there's a patch for that" whereas your avg joe consumer who wants to buy a smarthphone doesn't think that way.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    ...
    So, my point was if you are Palm, you don't want people to "choose something else", you want to get in front of that competition. You have a user base that is eroding by the day because of the lack of anything on the horizon. I'm sure there will be something coming, but is it six months from now, a year from now?

    I for one, when my year is up in September, if there is nothing on the horizon will make the jump to Android for a year to check things out on that side of the OS battle. If Palm jumps back ahead when my year with Android is up, I will be back and logging into my Palm Profile again.
    ...
    And that, I'm sure, is what Palm is currently relying on. Rather than release a semi-complete new something-or-other (whether it be OS or hardware), for which they would most certainly be pilloried, they are working to release sold product for more than the "diehards".
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by chodaboy View Post
    With all due fairness to Palm, it does seem to be a contradiction when the ease of development is touted, but Palm does not implement some of the very basic missing features. One example would be the developer that demonstrated how easy it was to add "snooze control" to the clock app, complete with source code, but still have not implemented this functionality in the released version.
    I suspect that they tout the ease because it's is easy, but they don't implement every feature such as this, becase different folks want different features.

    Look at the BB OS sometime. You'll see lots of functionality. You'll also see lots of complexity to make the multitude of options that users have.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    9. Themes or options to change colors. Remember the days of palm OS and changing the background colors? I've gotten used to the green phone dialer, but when others see my phone they all hate it. It's a matter of taste, but it should atleast be an option without having to put on homebrew themes that are not compatible with webOS updates.
    I agree with most of your post, but I'm puzzled by this item. What are you looking for? You can set any photo in your memory to be wallpaper, (without homebrew) and my friends think my Pre looks very pretty. Esthetically, it gets a lot of praise, actually.

    (I've never tried a homeberw theme, so maybe I just have no idea what I am missing.)
  16. #36  
    I understand that Palm would have limited resources and would not be able to equip the webOS UI with all the bells and whistles we've come to expect. That was true even with previous Palm devices like the Treo, but at least PalmOS provided ways for 3rd-party developers to give users much of that missing functionality. The problem with webOS is that Palm has not given developers enough basic tools to work with (I'm talking about apps in the catalog, not patches). For example, after over a year, there's still no way for an app like Wallpaper Switcharoo to access the folder of wallpapers already stored on my Pre.
  17. anifan's Avatar
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    #37  
    The reason I'm apologetic for Palm is that the Pre is first-generation device. Compare, if you will, the 1.0 version of webOS to iOS; it's not even a fair competition. Of course, in a world where iOS and Android have moved past their inauspicious beginnings Palm needs to step it's game up, but I'm willing to wait.
  18. #38  
    5. Virtual keyboard: come on palm, even all of those who love physical keyboards need a virtual one for quicktyping on webpages and text messages. This feature has been requested from the beginning, and it has been ignored.
    No I don't. I hate virtual keyboard and would never use it. It's the reason I got rid of my Instinct.
  19. Speebs's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by anifan View Post
    The reason I'm apologetic for Palm is that the Pre is first-generation device. Compare, if you will, the 1.0 version of webOS to iOS; it's not even a fair competition. Of course, in a world where iOS and Android have moved past their inauspicious beginnings Palm needs to step it's game up, but I'm willing to wait.
    Shouldn't they have come out swinging though? Most of this stuff seems to be VERY low hanging fruit. I don't think they ever really expected to be able to compete with RIM and Apple, so they didn't really try.
  20. #40  
    While I can't really disagree with you about your list, OP, I'd say that the only really missing item that's glaring is the voice dialing. I'm no Mr. Bluetooth walking around talking into my earpiece, but I would really like the convenience of voice dial when I'm in the car, and is that really so much to ask from (IMO) the best mobile OS around? My last 2 dumbphones did voice dialing.
    "...human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together! MASS HYSTERIA!"

    -Ghostbusters
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