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  1. Speebs's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Overclocking is a possible cause for any issue related to the operation of the CPU. In fact, it should be the first thing that you assume to the cause, and you should immediately attempt to prove whether that is the case by removing it, confirming the problem has gone away, then reinstalling it, confirming the problem returns, then repeating all that twice more to make sure. This should be done *before* reporting any problem.

    Of course, if hardware damage has occurred, then all bets are off, and frankly you need to assume that the overclocking caused it unless you can truly point to something else.

    This is the reason why we have a very serious disclaimer on these kernels. I assume that you've read it.

    -- Rod
    Understood. I was really wondering if someone more familiar with overclocking (and I realize you might not be as familiar with it as unixpsycho) could give some insight into how likely it is that overclocking caused this overheating issue. I know we like to repeat the disclaimer that *anything* is possible once you've overclocked and it's all on the user and all that, but really, physically speaking, is it really likely that the OC can cause this kind of permanent damage?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Understood. I was really wondering if someone more familiar with overclocking (and I realize you might not be as familiar with it as unixpsycho) could give some insight into how likely it is that overclocking caused this overheating issue. I know we like to repeat the disclaimer that *anything* is possible once you've overclocked and it's all on the user and all that, but really, physically speaking, is it really likely that the OC can cause this kind of permanent damage?
    Actually, I have 25+ years of experience in both SoC design and kernel development ...

    Yes it really is likely. The SR71 thead starts with the words "Don't use this kernel if you like your phone" for a good reason, and you ignore that warning at your own peril.

    Other causes could be runaway software causing the CPU to continually run at 100%, but that is discounted by doctoring. It could also be an unrelated fault in any other device on the circuit board, but you will have no way of distinguishing that from an SoC fault caused by overclocking without sophisticated circuit-level diagnostic tools and information.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  3. Speebs's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Actually, I have 25+ years of experience in SoC design ...

    Yes it really is likely.

    Other causes could be runaway software causing the CPU to continually run at 100%, but that is discounted by doctoring. It could also be an unrelated fault in any other device on the circuit board, but you will have no way of distinguishing that from an SoC fault caused by overclocking without sophisticated circuit-level diagnostic tools and information.

    -- Rod
    I appreciate the quick response. I didn't mean any offense- I thought at some point I read that you said you were only involved in packaging the kernels up and not in overclocking in any way. Guess I was quite wrong.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Understood. I was really wondering if someone more familiar with overclocking (and I realize you might not be as familiar with it as unixpsycho)


    The smileys express it all.

    Not bustin on you... I just thought it was funny.
    Last edited by pastorrich1; 07/28/2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason: clarification
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    I appreciate the quick response. I didn't mean any offense- I thought at some point I read that you said you were only involved in packaging the kernels up and not in overclocking in any way. Guess I was quite wrong.
    No offense taken. I often downplay my involvement in these things because of the risk of WebOS Internals being seen as a one-man show, rather than the close-knit collaborative team of extremely talented and experienced developers that it is.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  6. crholt's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post

    If you can doctor you phone, get the overclock kernel off and return it to Palm's kernel.

    Then return the phone for repair and don't say anything.
    This behavior might be considered as "fraud" by people with a certain level of ethical standards. Not "trying to come down hard on you", just sayin'...
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    If you can doctor you phone, get the overclock kernel off and return it to Palm's kernel.
    Then return the phone for repair and don't say anything.
    Extrapolate this to everyone who might have a hardware problem as a result of overclocking, and you would quickly see the attitude of Palm toward homebrew change significantly ...

    The WebOS Internals position is that if you consciously void your warranty by installing an overclocking kernel, then you should take personal responsibility for your decision if things go wrong.

    If a person is not prepared to take personal responsibility (and accept the financial impact that may have), then that person should not install an overclocking kernel in the first place.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  8. #48  
    Rod,

    the problem really does seem to be general availability of your experimental kernels. UK had a closed alpha and people annoyed you with questions of when to expect it released; now you have open alphas and people annoy you with questions of when to expect them released AND download them without reading or very much caring for the disclaimers.

    As someone above said, they're no average alpha kernel installers but felt they needed to do it. I suppose a second is too long to wait for an app to open.

    So you may have a larger group of testers, but a lot of them don't care for the testing and will mind if your experimental kernel breaks down their precious phone. If Palm notice a sudden jump in fried CPUs replaced on warranty, their position towards homebrew and openness really might change.

    Maybe you should return to handling experimental overclocks and other dangerous things in hidden feeds that cannot be found by anyone savvy enough to use a search function but still stupid enough to completely ignore all disclaimers of impending desaster. Just an idea...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Maybe you should return to handling experimental overclocks and other dangerous things in hidden feeds that cannot be found by anyone savvy enough to use a search function but still stupid enough to completely ignore all disclaimers of impending desaster. Just an idea...
    Just wanted to point out that as of late the problem has been people starting a thread..... "Where do i find ******?" Someone says testing feed, OP then asks for testing feed and even though those that are responsible advise if you don't know where it is or how to find it you shouldn't use it, sooner or later someone jumps in says, "Why are you giving the OP a hard time?" and that person then gives them the feed.

    Just saying part of the current "problem" is people having the feed and not staying with the logic that, if someone can't find it, they don't get told where it is.
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