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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is funny, in a sad kind of way.

    Want to make a guess as to how many times Apple quoted Consumers Report before this?

    Of course CR is "not relevevant", but that's just in the minds of some people because CR dared criticize their idol.

    Not only that, CR is so totally ignored by Apple's base, that Apple actually took the time to scrub their discussion forum of all comments about the CR article.

    Apple made the comments gone, thus they never actually existed. Would you like another cup of kool-aid?
    I take it as Apple being annoyed by CR. The same way a fly would annoy me.

    CR criticizing the iPhone is only more evidence that the iPhone is the phone that matters to ALL. Anything else is ignored. As I already said when the Pre had it's reception issues in the beginning, the media or CR didn't CARE!
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/19/2010 at 04:08 PM.
  2. staeit's Avatar
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    #102  
    After hearing about Steve Jobs' Press conference on the iPhone 4 "antenna issues", I wanted to verify his claim that "smartphones aren't perfect" and that this issue affects most or all smartphones. I was skeptical as I had never seen this issue on my Pre, nor really any phone for that matter.

    It's possible to see the signal strength in the ##debug# menu on the Pre, so I tried to see if I could hold the phone in such a way as to degrade the signal by a few bars. What I discovered was that if you hold the Pre in the same awkward way as basically any of the phones in question (Apple pointed out the Bold 9700 and Droid Eris had the same problem), my Pre's signal degraded by around 20 dBm - from -80 dBm to -100 dBm, which also incidentally translated to a drop from 5 bars to 2 bars.

    Having found this for myself, it makes me really respect Apple's decision to include a free case with every iPhone 4. This issue really is a non-issue, as Jobs pointed out, because it affects tons of smartphones in the exact same way. I don't hold my phone when I'm on a call in such a way as to degrade the signal so significantly, and I don't think that's the case with the iPhone either.

    Anybody else try this?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    What is Apple's normal return policy on the iPhone, before this?
    I don't know. Look it up. But, I do know that only 1.7% have returned the iPhone 4 vs 6% that returned the iPhone 3GS with the initial launch for both products? So, I would say the policy change is a moot point. Appeasing the dumb media and CR because if they didn't offer it, the media and CR would find some reason to B****!
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/18/2010 at 10:33 PM.
  4. #104  
    I did and it would go down 10Db or1 bar most of the time but during a call it made no problems.

    The big part was tht the iHone would drop the call yet my Pre+ doesn't so IMO its not really a huge issue.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Well, thanks for noticing. Do the questions bother you, or is it a silly man-crush thing?
    The latter. Ok with you?
  6. #106  
    Mine dropped 1 bar as well, but since the Pre is oh so much SMALLER than the iPhone, you would hold it higher on the hand, not lower.

    So this is a non-issue for Pres.
  7. Mikest's Avatar
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    #107  
    The only reason its an issue is the iPhones already on a network notorious for dropping calls anyway.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    ...So this is a non-issue for Pres.

    unless you have a really tiny head lol
    Palm prē-ist.
  9. #109  
    Heh, the iPhone problem is much different than what Apple said in their conference.

    You see, you can't use bars as a comparison for signal strength. webOS seems to really only care about getting full bars when you are actually transmitting, not having the phone idle. Have you ever noticed your bars fluctuating quite a bit while using it? It is because webOS ramps up the power when transmitting, and takes it back quite a bit while idle. This results in the signal strength bar display to jump all over the place.

    So yes, while holding your Pre with your hand, you will attenuate the signal a small amount, and the bar display may go down accordingly, but that has very little indication on actual signal strength or the ability hold a signal while the device is actively trying to hold it (ramping up the power like on a call or viewing a web page).

    The iPhone 4 reception issue is a real problem that no other phone exhibits in the fact that if you bridge the connection where the two antennas meet (the cellular antenna and wifi/BT/etc antenna), you actually overload the two antennas and the phone will have a very hard time recovering. No amount of additional ramp up power can overcome the overload. Thus, the iPhone will actually drop the call.

    Try it. Call someone even with only 1 or 2 bars on your Pre and hold it any way you want. The Pre will hold the call just fine unless you really are in a very bad signal area. The iPhone 4 can be in a very good signal area and still drop the call due to its "unique" (flawed) antenna design.
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  10. #110  
    So general idea, pre will drop bars if you do a death grip. But it won't drop a call like the iPhone does with a death grip.
  11. #111  
    for apple to come out and discredit claims that there is an issue with the iphone 4.. and use return rates of 1.7 % as to show a hi customer satisfaction rate... is more spin.
    Last time i checked... the iphone 4 is still within the 30 day return window. If i bought one and was dissatisfied... i would still keep it until the 29th day, then return it.
    For apple to have used those statistics accurately, they should have waited until the 30 day window for the phone to expire....typical apple spin.
    I do think apple's poor handling is going to insult the intelligence of the 15%( generous;-) ) of the non sheep, die hard users. that should cause a spike in the rate of returns post 30 day.

    the reality distortion field is strong within some of you.....lol!

    http://gizmodo.com/5590271/the-taiwa...-special-bonus
    Last edited by clutch1222; 07/18/2010 at 11:16 PM.
  12. BBooDad's Avatar
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    #112  
    In our Sprint-weak part of rural Wisconsin, the antenna death grip DOES apply to my Sprint Pre reception. I can go from 4 bars to 0-1 bar just by holding my Pre along both sides near the top. When I just hold it with 1 finger on each side, then the bars go right back up to 4-5. Takes about 7-10 seconds or so for both shifts, just like in the Apple videos. So I'd tend to go with the radio vs meatbag theory and not get too excited about it. Would like a nice bumper for Pre that could prevent it though!
  13. #113  
    I just love how "holding your phone with your left hand, just like in the Apple commercials" becomes "the death grip" as soon as Apple builds a phone that can't be held in your left hand.

    If Palm had built it, it would be called the death phone and nobody'd buy it, just laugh at it. But as it is, 'tis barely a flaw, and everyone else also suffers from physics, so what's the big deal.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by staeit View Post
    After hearing about Steve Jobs' Press conference on the iPhone 4 "antenna issues", I wanted to verify his claim that "smartphones aren't perfect" and that this issue affects most or all smartphones. I was skeptical as I had never seen this issue on my Pre, nor really any phone for that matter.

    It's possible to see the signal strength in the ##debug# menu on the Pre, so I tried to see if I could hold the phone in such a way as to degrade the signal by a few bars. What I discovered was that if you hold the Pre in the same awkward way as basically any of the phones in question (Apple pointed out the Bold 9700 and Droid Eris had the same problem), my Pre's signal degraded by around 20 dBm - from -80 dBm to -100 dBm, which also incidentally translated to a drop from 5 bars to 2 bars.

    Having found this for myself, it makes me really respect Apple's decision to include a free case with every iPhone 4. This issue really is a non-issue, as Jobs pointed out, because it affects tons of smartphones in the exact same way. I don't hold my phone when I'm on a call in such a way as to degrade the signal so significantly, and I don't think that's the case with the iPhone either.

    Anybody else try this?
    Wait a second...

    Have you ever had a mobile phone manufacturer tell you how to hold your phone?

    Have you ever had a mobile phone manufacturer tell you to put a case on your Phone?

    Exactly! That's what i thought. Apple ignored an engineering flaw in the antenna system on the iPhone 4 and instead of admitting their mistake and telling us they are working on redesigning the iPhone to fix the flaw, they chose to point fingers and drag other smart phone into their demise.

    Apple has always claim to be the best and NEVER compared their products to anyone. It is shameful for them to start comparing their iPhone 4 to other smarthones now that their product is having problems.

    I was very disappointed when Steve Jobs said at the press conf that only 0.55% of iPhone 4 users are experiencing "antennagate." The 0.55% is ONLY users that have reported or file a complaint for antenna issues. The rest of the iPhone 4 users have either put a "condom" on or put the iPhone in their right hand (no matter how inconvenience) and moved on.

    Publicly, how many people were aware that the iPhone 4 had a bug that was causing problem for Microsoft Exchange users? Very, very few and that was because everyone that tried setting up their iPhone 4 with their work Microsoft Exchange and run into that exchange bug either stopped trying or just didn't tell anyone and moved on without it.

    There were only a handful of people that reported the bug to Apple. The bug was with the iPhone 4 and not how the Microsoft Exchange environment was setup/configured. Apple has now fixed that in iOS 4.0.1. However, it is still a challenge setting up your work Exchange with iPhone 4.

    The FACT is, the iPhone 4 hardware is the issue PERIOD. Apple should have admitted the flaw in iPhone 4 and told the world they're working on redesigning the iPhone 4 to make it even better. That would have earn them some respect and a huge bump in their stock price.

    How about the iPhone 4 proximity issue? Do you know how annoying it is to have the iPhone 4 hang up your calls, push the wrong buttons, etc all because you brought the phone closer to your face or away?

    How about the fake algorithm used in iPhone 4 to show you more bars when in fact you had less? Do you believe that was a mistake as Apple stated or that was their fake attempt to fool people that complaint about poor signal strength to "see" more bars and shutup already?

    Every great company run into issues somewhere along the line and how they recover is what makes them great (look at what happened to GM and now Toyota). Apple better learn quick or else...

    People will buy iPhone product regardless of what issues and/or flaws it may have. That is because Apple is always pushing the envelope and developing great products. Yes, some mistakes will be made along the way but that is no shame. Admit it, ask for forgiveness and come back with a better product.

    That's what Apple NEED to do.
  15. #115  
    I can't believe I'm gonna say that I'm tired of CrApple's entertainment but... I'm getting tired of this iphone 4 antenna fiasco bull ****.
  16. #116  
    This antenna issue is overblown. If you are watching Apple's demonstration, all phones had switched 3g on, and all had reception problems with 3g reception. I guess that you should turn off 3G on Iphone 4 and there would be no reception loss. I, and my friends, all by default are using Iphones with turned 3G off, as I'm using my Pre, and I never had a dropped call - on my Iphone or Pre. When I forget to turn off 3G (after a data usage) than Pre and Iphone start dropping a calls.

    On other hand, I agree that if Palm manufactured phone with similar problem it would be doomed. Palm would be nailed by the press and by carriers.
  17. #117  
    I ran the test as well and regardless of how I held/grip the phone at each ANY side/part of the phone, there was no degradation of signal or the bars dropping. However, when I squeeze the phone (as shown in Apple press conf for the Blackberry and Motorola) my designal (dbm) begins to drop and the bars go from 5 to 3.

    I had several mobile phones for so many years and NEVER have I had to squeeze a phone to use it and I doubt people are squeezing their phone just to make a call.

    The issue is not how you hold it. It's about covering the antenna bars at the bottom side of the phone. Instead of Steve Jobs telling people they are holding the iPhone wrong or in the left hand, he should have said "Thank for buying our iPhone 4 and we hope you enjoy. Please don't cover the antennas at the bottom side of the phone when holding it." How about that for customer service.

    The iPhone 4 "antennagate" is not about how you hold the iPhone, it's about covering the antennas and that's what the "bumber" case is for.
  18. #118  
    Im surprised we have people here who actually bought the crap from apple.

    People complain about light touch drop calls on iPhone 4, so they show a tight grip drop bars on other phones.

    other craps:

    1. apple claims iPhone 4 only drop 1% addition to iPhone 3GS, guess whats the baseline? from 1% to 2%, thats 200%.

    2. 0.55% people who call applecare is for iPhone 4 death grip, guess how many people buy extra, NON-free apple care service on top of standard warranty? obviously not 100%.

    3. Guess how apple improved iPhone 3G, 3GS signal strength for past two years? By apparently implement now "flawed" display of strength signal.

    I mean, this company has absolutely no honesty, selectively presenting data, every statement is for the purpose of mis-portray its or others products.

    Respect, hell no.
    Last edited by clevin; 07/19/2010 at 07:22 AM.
  19. Olidie's Avatar
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    #119  
    flaw design.
  20. #120  
    plus its a death grip vs just bridging two peices of metal...
    iPhone 1gen august 2007- may 2010
    Repaired: headphone jack twice. Buttons and back cover once. Screen has a crack.

    Palm Pre Plus may 2010-now

    LOVE IT

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