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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mauro1 View Post
    Every way is the"wrong way" to hold the Pre ... inside a Faraday cage.
    Outside of a Faraday cage however the situation is entirely reversed.
    Ahhh ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! Awww man, that is it. This is now the best post of the day!
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  2. #42  
    There are a few ways to hold your phone that I would think would be 'just wrong', but as Palm is very open minded, they might just swing that way. There are a few apps that may even give some tips. Pocket Party anyone?
  3. #43  
    with one finger tightly pressing on the power button.
  4. stomsf's Avatar
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    #44  
    So Job's response to the whole iPhone fiasco is to call out the competition (Droid Eris, Blackberry, Omnia) on their phones also dropping signal when held in the "death grip".

    Curiously, when I check out my Pre in all the various grips demonstrated, I get NO degradation of signal. So it's not "ALL" smartphones, Stevie m'boy.

    Just a rant...
  5. #45  
    Was that before or after you had to reboot?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by stomsf View Post
    So Job's response to the whole iPhone fiasco is to call out the competition (Droid Eris, Blackberry, Omnia) on their phones also dropping signal when held in the "death grip".

    Curiously, when I check out my Pre in all the various grips demonstrated, I get NO degradation of signal. So it's not "ALL" smartphones, Stevie m'boy.

    Just a rant...
    It's also not on all iPhone 4's. Just on iPhones that are in very weak signal areas to begin with. Several people have them at my job and none of us can get any of the iPhones to lose signal with the death-grip.
  7. #47  
    The pictures simply showed them holding the phone in the palm of the left hand. This is what people are calling a "death grip"? Wow.
    screwdestiny
    PSN Twitter Last.FM
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    The pictures simply showed them holding the phone in the palm of the left hand. This is what people are calling a "death grip"? Wow.
    The sad part is that no "death grip" is required, one finger in the wrong place can make it drop calls.
  9. #49  
    Defective antenna and AT&T's network.... bad combination.
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  10. #50  
    I haven't dropped a call yet on my EVO (knock on wood). Even in my house... where I (and my wife) drop calls somewhat frequently (once every few days) in certain areas with our Pre's.

    Having said that... I never felt the Pre suffered from any bad signal issues. Every phone we have ever had has troubles in certain parts of our house. I've probably just been somewhat lucky so far with the EVO.
  11. #51  
    Ok, let's cut to the chase...

    The truth is that any device that uses a radio transmitter or receiver (transceiver) will be affected by proximity to the human body. We are meatbags filled with water and we will affect signal integrity, sometimes for the better and most of the times for the worse.

    In my uncontrolled environment (my home) I have a 12-14 point swing in my RSSI number as well as a 7-10 dBm swing in receiving power when you compare holding the Pre in your hand versus it sitting on my desk.

    The thing I want to stress is that ALL devices will suffer from this and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Just because you can't see your bars move has nothing to do with the fact that signal is being lost or not...that has to do with how the algorithm in the phone's software deciphers dBm in to bars.

    If your top bar is designed to be illuminated when you have a signal between -90 dBm and -50 dBm then any signal in that range will illuminate it. You may be at -60, pick up your phone and the signal drops to -80 but you will still show full bars. This does not change the fact you experienced a 20 dBm loss in signal...you just don't see it as a signal bar drop.

    Where Apple really pooched it is that the antennas for both the 3G transceiver and the bluetooth/wifi transceiver are both externally mounted on the deivce without any form of insulation.

    This compounds the issue for the iPhone 4 as you not only get they typical signal loss that close proximity to the human body causes but added on top of that you literally short the two antennas and their respective transceivers together through the variable resistance of your skin...and depending on how much salt (electrolytes) you have on the surface of your skin (or even in the makeup of your skin's PH) will change the amount of resisitance you apply between these two antennas and transceivers. This causes even more signal loss than just the typical proximity to human body loss. Coupling this with the signal strength in your controlled environment (home, work, car, park, etc.) is what determines if there is enough signal drop to kill your data rates and call quality or not.

    If Apple insulates this band (bumpers, clear coating, phone case, etc.) then they eliminate the coupling of the two antennas and that puts them back at similar reductions in signal levels that we all encounter.

    Whether they (Apple) want to admit it or not they have compounded the issue by having non-insulated, externally mounted antennas.

    But do not be deceived...all phones will suffer signal drop as you hold them in your hands.

    I love my Pre but when you look at this issue lets look at it honestly.

    KippLitz
    Last edited by kipplitz; 07/16/2010 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Typos...
  12. #52  
    I posted this on another thread - but it fits better here.

    "Steve Jobs sought to portray the weakness in the iPhone 4's antenna as an issue that affects all mobile phones, but Consumer Reports said on its Electronics Blog: "We also tested several other AT&T phones the same way, including the iPhone 3G S and the Palm Pre. None of those phones had the signal-loss problems of the iPhone 4." The Apple fix is to give a free bumper case (Apple valued at $29.00) is a lazy patch job. In a statement released shortly after the press conference ended, Consumer Reports described Apple's move: "Providing free bumpers and cases is a good first step toward Apple identifying and finding a solution for the signal-loss problem of the iPhone 4." The bumper case has some issues of its own according to reviews. It doesn't allow easy access to the silent switch and some non apple accessories will not be able plug into the phone with the cover on. There is also the issue of giving away a bumper case will have a detrimental effect on the iphone aftermarket case makers ability to compete. I hope Apple takes this issue to the next level and backs up their reputation of marketing the highest quality equipment on the planet."
    Palm m130 > Verizon Trēo 650 > Verizon Trēo 755p > Verizon Palm Prē Plus > TouchPad > Verizon Palm Prē 2
    ~ The Future's Just Not What it Used To Be ~
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    @kipplitz

    too late, steve jobs just said all of that at a press conference this morning. but you are correct in your assesment!
    he only left out the part regarding the Iphone 4 having a bigger issue due to the antenas shorting
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    @kipplitz

    too late, steve jobs just said all of that at a press conference this morning. but you are correct in your assesment!
    No, he did not mention the part where the iPhone's "innovative" and "magical" antenna design makes their signal loss problems significantly worse than every other phone on the market.

    Because that would be admitting that they screwed up the design of the phone, and their 18 PhDs could not have done that...
  15. #55  
    I think Apple did a fantastic job of pointing the finger at everyone else and crying "See...they do it too" but what they knowingly failed to say in their marketing campaign this morning was:

    "Like everyone else, we suffer from signal loss due to proximity to the human body. Unlike everyone else our stylish design has compounded the issue becuase when you hold our phone you will get MORE signal loss than others due to the fact your contact with the device shorts two antennas and transceivers together."

    To me, that is clearly the violation in design that needs to be focused on. They tried to diminish that by admitting they are as bad as everyone else. Truth is...they are worse.

    KippLitz
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    he said it's the same with other smart phones, but apple painted a target on the weak spot, which is true (and funny).
    Sorry, but that is completely incorrect.

    Other phones do NOT have a specific spot where you can touch and short circuit the antenna, because their antennas are internal and/or insulated. And that's not even going into the fact that Apple put this weak spot in a place where it is virtually guaranteed to be touched by the vast majority of users. To put it in perspective, you would have to take the battery cover off and hold the phone so you're touching all the gold pieces on the Pre to have a similar effect.

    Apple is still not telling the truth about the source of the iPhone4's reception problems, and their statements that their problems are the same as everyone else are flat out untrue.

    The iPhone4's unique antenna design makes their signal drop problems significantly worse than the competition. That is what Consumer Reports' testing showed and you can bet that the other manufacturers are scrambling to do hard scientific tests that measure actual signal strength (rather than bars, which can mean anything) and will be publishing their results soon.


    based on dropped calls being so low, he's saying that the signal is good, but the strenth indicator isn't accurate. That plays out in areas of weaker coverage. I'm not a jobs fan, but I do think this is no longer a story.
    Dropped calls are not low. Dropped calls are worse than the 3GS, which is a call dropping machine. The fact that their brilliant new antenna design results in a higher rate of dropped calls than the awful (in terms of call dropping) 3GS shows just how significant the problem is.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Dropped calls are not low. Dropped calls are worse than the 3GS, which is a call dropping machine. The fact that their brilliant new antenna design results in a higher rate of dropped calls than the awful (in terms of call dropping) 3GS shows just how significant the problem is.
    In my experience, it would be difficult to compare dropped call rates between phones on AT&T given their high dropped call rate on any 3G phone.
  18. #58  
    Anyone calling out Apple just needs to go back a year when and read all the threads about the Pre reception. I was one. I got terrible reception and the fix was a Airrave. Sprint sent a whole bunch of us free airaves and free service as a fix. Still got my airrave. My Pre got great reception outside but inside any building I dropped every call. again wasnt just me . re-read all the old threads from a year ago. Palm made a phone with reception issues too. Was no where near as wide spread as the Iphone or as bad BUT Just shows that every phone can have recepton issue. But with all the other issues the Pre had this one was minor.
    Last edited by VaccPalm; 07/17/2010 at 11:07 AM.
  19. #59  
    of all the potential hardware shortcomings of the pre line of phones (oreo, double and missed typing keyboard, stuck in headset mode, power button getting stuck, and cracks near the usb input, inadequate battery size), the one thing I can honestly say is that the pres do NOT get affected by any sort of death grip.
    their phone reception is outstanding on all three major US carriers, so people, give palm some credit.

    apple's new phone is def something to marvel at, but they screwed up with the antenna, period. It's ok apple, no one's perfect!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    It's also not on all iPhone 4's. Just on iPhones that are in very weak signal areas to begin with. Several people have them at my job and none of us can get any of the iPhones to lose signal with the death-grip.
    try this

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