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  1. mastercko's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by zcharat View Post
    2) I have no idea about light rail. I thought the cops had a scanner like the the ones on the buses, which you just tapped. I might have to do another experiment and buy a paper ticket first, try my phone with the cops, and then show them the paper ticket if they look like they mean business. I do still have my cards ID number...
    Oh, ok, I'm probably mistaken re: their reader devices. I had never looked too closely at them, since I always get the ticket and they just look at it, but I got the impression they had a slot to slide the card in.

    I wonder if they would be ok with the phone doing the work of the card or not. A bus driver doesn't really usually know what you're putting up to it, since a lot of people do the wallet wave thing (back when I had an RFID enabled CC and when I was in Japan with an RFID train pass card, I did the same thing), so I can imagine him or her just not really paying attention. The cops on the rail probably always get the card itself handed to them, so they might be more likely to think something fishy was going on. Curious if that will be the case. Let us know the results! 8^)

    Now if only ORCA was used for more than transportation and was a bank of cash that could be accessed for buying anything, a la the systems in Japan, this would be straight awesome. 8^D
    Last edited by mastercko; 06/29/2010 at 03:44 PM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by zcharat View Post
    TMy main concern is heat. I'm not sure what the chip can take when my phone is running hot. Unfortunately I can't insulate the wires much more, as the extra tape makes the cover unable to close.
    Don't worry about that.

    My employer uses ID badges for all employees with passive RFID chips that are very similar to what you're dealing with. We use those pRFID badges for time clocks, and access to secured areas.

    I've seen work badges that got left on car dashboards in 110⁰f (43⁰c) weather. They have to go up to HR to get a new badge because the one they left on the dashboard is curled up and half melted, but they're still able to hit the time clock on the way in.

    If you phone gets hot enough to mess up that chip, the chip is going to the least of your concerns.
  3. zcharat's Avatar
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       #43  
    Hmm so according to the terms of use: www.orcacard.com/ERG-Seattle/.../ORCA%20Terms%20of%20Use.pdf

    "users shall not tamper with an ORCA Website or an ORCA Card or use any hardware or software intended to damage or interfere with the proper and timely functioning of an ORCA Website or ORCA Card"

    I think I'm okay as long as I'm legitimately paying, haha
  4. mastercko's Avatar
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    #44  
    kinda depends on what they mean by "damage" and "ORCA Card". If they mean the only functional part (the RFID chip in the card, which they could given the wording of the second part), then yeah, but if they include the plastic shell in that meaning, then you might be screwed...
    Last edited by mastercko; 06/29/2010 at 05:47 PM.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by AHighLifeMan View Post
    Not with these types of tags. They use short range inductive coupling (same as the touchstone) which is usually designed for one chip at a time. If you had two different tags in the field at the same time, they would interfere with each other and neither would work.
    I don't know if I believe that. I've got an RFID elevator pass, a Zipcar RFID card, and an MBTA RFID "CharlieCard" in my wallet, and I just tap my wallet on the readers and have never had an issue with any of the three.
  6. #46  
    really cool idea, time to see if i can get this to work
  7. zcharat's Avatar
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       #47  
    So I've been experiencing some pretty dismal battery life since finishing this project, and I was concerned that the new RFID chip was interfering with the touchstone somehow. Could it be possible that through the touchstone back, my Pre's already short battery life was being used to accidentally power the RFID chip continuously? I had a couple hours today to kill and decided to test it out.


    Battery Charge Rates


    Battery Discharge Rates

    It seems that with the RFID in the touchstone back, neither the charge or the discharge rates deviate from their normal baseline rates without RFID. My poor battery life could be from an aging battery or an increase in my Pre's data usage.
  8. #48  
    Pretty cool.
  9. #49  
    OK I need one more post to get me up to 10 so I can finally post images...

    Edit: looks like I'm awaiting moderation or something, because only 3 of my 10 are being counted. But when it's done I have some good info to contribute to this thread!
  10. zcharat's Avatar
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       #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Taco View Post
    OK I need one more post to get me up to 10 so I can finally post images...

    Edit: looks like I'm awaiting moderation or something, because only 3 of my 10 are being counted. But when it's done I have some good info to contribute to this thread!
    I'd be happy to post some pics for you until you get approved. I'm curious to see what you have Message me if you want.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by zcharat View Post
    Hmm so according to the terms of use:
    "users shall not tamper with an ORCA Website or an ORCA Card or use any hardware or software intended to damage or interfere with the proper and timely functioning of an ORCA Website or ORCA Card"

    I think I'm okay as long as I'm legitimately paying, haha
    Some good shiznit here... Nice.

    I imagine that a "It got melted a little in the sun, so I made better use out of it" excuse may wash...

    Also, on the "multiple RFID" comment.... If you have 2 cards, line them up together and present them to the scanner... If the scanner reads them you are fine. I currently have 5 RFID passes for separate sites I support at the company I work for... They have to be grouped in specific orders simply because 2 cards will use the same identifying frequency... So when my card 1 is presented to reader 1 it has an ID that in the security DB recognises me. However, presenting card 2 to reader 1 ALSO sends an ID which is not registered in the DB so it draws a blank. Card 3 however is on a different frequency, so the reader doesn't even know it's there.

    Hope that sheds some light.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallie99 View Post
    If you have 2 cards, line them up together and present them to the scanner... If the scanner reads them you are fine.
    If you have two that are the same frequency/encryption technology and you present them to an ORCA reader, it'll beep at you and display "One card at a time please". I have a photo of it, but still being under 10 posts I can't post it. Find me on Flickr; I have a set called "ORCA card" and it's there.

    zcharat sent you a PM yesterday with my post.
  13. zcharat's Avatar
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       #53  
    [QUOTE=Atomic_Taco]Here's my post:
    I did the same with one of my cards:



    I didn't pre-soak so mine took 17 minutes.

    The end result of two cards:


    It still works fine, but since my U-Pass was good until yesterday, I haven't used it.

    I have another one that I rolled up with steam:

    And it doesn't fit:

    Testing it shows that it doens't work well; it takes a lot of taps to get it to read.

    Of course I had to find something to do with two modded cards, so I took the folded one and put it inside an Orca, and I have a true Orca card:


    I haven't gotten around to testing the "Orca" but I'd assume it'd be even less effective than it was before. I guess I'll only use it when I'm riding a pay as you enter bus and I can be sure I'm the last one to get on.

    Lastly, here's a photo of the Portable Fare Transaction Processor (PFTP), the device that the fare inspectors use to make sure you tapped your card. Unlike the TVM (Ticket Vending Machine), you don't have to insert it. It has enough of a "shelf" that I think you'll be fine.

    Thanks for these pics! Especially the PFTP info, that's really good to know.
  14. #54  
    I finally had a chance to try this. It works amazingly well with the RFID cards from work. We use them for access to restricted areas. I got permission from my supervisor (Security Chief) to attempt this and he helped me extract the antenna and chip. This was easy as our cards are two pieces of hard plastic put together after the RFID hardware is glued in. The glue was easy to remove. Then, it was just the process of placing the hardware into the touchstone cover and taping it into place. After installation, we tested it and it works great!!! The only draw back... I have to touch the back of the phone to the reader to get the doors open. The touchstone cover is much thinker than the plastic on the old card.

    I forget my card about once a week but I have never forgotten my pre. This is great. I will post back if anything changes or I find drawbacks.
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  15. #55  
    Okay, I had serious antenna problems. I have a low signal at work and it was worse tonight. I had to move my RFID hardware to the Otterbox case around my iPod. It'll work the same for me since I have that everywhere I take my phone. I'm disappointed that it doesn't work in my Pre but I'll live.
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  16. zcharat's Avatar
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       #56  
    I'm sort of surprised that you're getting a low signal, especially after such a successful test, that looks like a pretty beefy antenna too. Are you sure you didn't break one of the connections?

    I also noticed that on the top end of the antenna, you have the copper behind the magnets for the touchstone, maybe if you re-placed it so the signal has the least amount of mass to penetrate you'd have better luck.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by zcharat View Post
    I'm sort of surprised that you're getting a low signal, especially after such a successful test, that looks like a pretty beefy antenna too. Are you sure you didn't break one of the connections?

    I also noticed that on the top end of the antenna, you have the copper behind the magnets for the touchstone, maybe if you re-placed it so the signal has the least amount of mass to penetrate you'd have better luck.
    Actually, it was the phone that wasn't getting signal. The RFID was working fine. I was roaming in places I never did before and while at my apartment (great singnal), I was only getting two or three bars. I removed the RFID hardware and my Pre is working great now. I think the "beefy" antenna was interfearing somehow. I'm not sure.
    ~Jhoove09
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  18. #58  
    I have finally gotten this to work. I had to reposition the antenna and RFID chip inside the touchstone back but its working great now and I'm not getting the signal loss that I was before. Everyone I work with is now very jelous that I dont have to carry around those annoying cards all day. Props to the OP for the great idea.
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  19. #59  
    very cool - neat idea!
  20. #60  
    If anyone is still interested in this idea....

    I got my Pre 2 a few weeks ago. I was still using my work's RFID card inside my touchstone cover. I was worried that it wouldn't fit but alas, the touchstone cover with the RFID hardware fits beautifully on my Pre 2! No drawbacks that I an find.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    ~Jhoove09
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