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  1. #61  
    With respect to warranty claims, Palm has specifically stated in a public release that overclocking your device voids your warranty.

    Palm knows exactly which devices are running overclocking kernels from the information that your device sends back to Palm every day, and they have the right to share that information with their carrier partners.

    -- Rod
  2. #62  
    Yes, that's my thought as well
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Whether you use insurance for an event which you caused by operating a device outside of it's manufacturer's specified limits is up to your own personal sense of responsibility and morality.

    The only published figures are those I quoted (100K, 50K, 44K). The 25K for 800MHz is a projection based on pure speculation. It could be 43K or 10K for all we know. What it is for 1.2GHz is way beyond the realms of even speculation.

    -- Rod
    We should also note that those numbers are for a slightly different part number than the one that's in the Pre. The difference between the catalog part (3530) that we have specs for and the part they sell to mobile phone makers (3430) COULD be that they don't expect them to last as long in a mobile phone (since people don't expect them to last more than about 2 years).

    I don't think anyone has publicly released the specs for the 3430 operating life. Palm obviously has them. And Palm UNDERclocked it to 500MHz. Even though that was probably for battery life and not longevity, the point is that they are not willing to take the risk of running the processor at higher than 600MHz (I believe it steps up to 600MHz for PDK apps).

    So there is a very real but difficult to quantify risk in overclocking your device at all. That's not to say that people shouldn't do it, but somehow people really overlook the statements that rwhitby and unixpsycho put out about these kernels.

    @rwhitby, please correct me if I've erred in any of that.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    We should also note that those numbers are for a slightly different part number than the one that's in the Pre. The difference between the catalog part (3530) that we have specs for and the part they sell to mobile phone makers (3430) COULD be that they don't expect them to last as long in a mobile phone (since people don't expect them to last more than about 2 years).

    I don't think anyone has publicly released the specs for the 3430 operating life. Palm obviously has them. And Palm UNDERclocked it to 500MHz. Even though that was probably for battery life and not longevity, the point is that they are not willing to take the risk of running the processor at higher than 600MHz (I believe it steps up to 600MHz for PDK apps).

    So there is a very real but difficult to quantify risk in overclocking your device at all. That's not to say that people shouldn't do it, but somehow people really overlook the statements that rwhitby and unixpsycho put out about these kernels.

    @rwhitby, please correct me if I've erred in any of that.
    It's widely believed (e.g. see the Wikipedia page on the subject) that the 3430 and 3530 are exactly the same die, just marketed through different channels and probably speed binned separately. I'm not aware of them being able to test for electromigration resilience or other life-time affecting characteristics at fab time.

    We have heard that one of the reasons why Palm underclocked to 500MHz was due to the frequency harmonics causing cellular reception interference at 600MHz (and people seem to be experiencing this at the higher frequencies as well), but that's third-hand hearsay, not an official statement from Palm.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  5. #65  
    Rod,

    Have YOU tried 1.2 Ghz? If not, with this talk of users experiencing lower temperatures than with even 500Mhz, are you considering it?

    Thanks!

    Lee
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Rod,

    Have YOU tried 1.2 Ghz? If not, with this talk of users experiencing lower temperatures than with even 500Mhz, are you considering it?
    With the effort and expense that I needed to go through to get the device I use as my main phone, no. I don't have the luxury of being able to swap devices for free at the local carrier store.

    (I had to purchase an unlocked German Pre Plus in Switzerland, have it shipped to the US, have it activated on AT&T there, have it shipped to Australia, then take it apart and replace the QWERTZ keyboard with a QWERTY keyboard from a Sprint Pre that I had shipped from the US)

    I have run the 1.05GHz kernel on a number of test devices, but since I don't use that as my main phone, I can't (and won't) report any real-life usage figures for it. I personally haven't built a 1.2GHz kernel yet.

    Every device responds to overclocking differently, and everyone's usage patterns are different. To try and draw generalisations from it is futile. Our goal is simply to provide the features and configurability so that each person can find the settings which work best for them and their device.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mauro1 View Post
    ding ding ding, courtesy of Hertz. In Sonoma wine country...
    Nice! I'm in NorCal, thats a nice drive in a vert (I own a VW vert).....
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mauro1 View Post
    Just two days ago... with Govnah in Screenstate 500/800 MHz, running RadioTime in the the dash of a convertible (top down) while docked on a TouchStone and streaming over Bluetooth (Ford's SYNC is rather nice), add Sprint Nav to the picture as well.... temperature at 65C for a few hours. Phone still working (currently USB-tethered at the airport waiting for my next flight)... Yeah heat is a concern, but c'mon I've seen 60's.

    Don't bother telling me I might fry the phone, I know I just might. My phone my prerogative. Not telling anyone to do this, just telling of life in the hot lane! :-)

    I love this phone!!!!
    My phone has seen the mid 50s C running multiple apps at once, while plugged into the USB charger, running at stock speed. And I find it very hard to believe that a mobile CPU is not designed to handle serious heat. The Pentium M cpu in my laptop is rated to 100 C according to Intel. I would think that 60s C would not exceed design specs.
  9. #69  
    I'm testing the alpha kernel now. It's really really nice. What a great platform, and a great developer community!
  10. #70  
    It is not the cpu that is the issue it is generally the battery that is likely to "overheat" before the cpu. I believe I read that the cpu can do ~ 85C before you will see an issue.
  11. #71  
    My bad, I meant 1ghz. And, that makes perfect sense. I've actually had some relatively good luck with the fixed 720Mhz. It's fast, stays relatively cool, even when in my Naztech charging holster, and only has the occasional lockup/reboot. Usually with video, or the doc reader, and it reboots like a Luna restart, so it's fast.

    My main reason for considering going to 1Ghz, would not be the speed, it would be the low temperature, and, if there were any stability advantages. But, right now it looks like folks are splitting hairs about the risks vs benefits. So, stock Uber will remain my OC of choice.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    With the effort and expense that I needed to go through to get the device I use as my main phone, no. I don't have the luxury of being able to swap devices for free at the local carrier store.

    (I had to purchase an unlocked German Pre Plus in Switzerland, have it shipped to the US, have it activated on AT&T there, have it shipped to Australia, then take it apart and replace the QWERTZ keyboard with a QWERTY keyboard from a Sprint Pre that I had shipped from the US)

    I have run the 1.05GHz kernel on a number of test devices, but since I don't use that as my main phone, I can't (and won't) report any real-life usage figures for it. I personally haven't built a 1.2GHz kernel yet.

    Every device responds to overclocking differently, and everyone's usage patterns are different. To try and draw generalisations from it is futile. Our goal is simply to provide the features and configurability so that each person can find the settings which work best for them and their device.

    -- Rod
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    My bad, I meant 1ghz. And, that makes perfect sense. I've actually had some relatively good luck with the fixed 720Mhz. It's fast, stays relatively cool, even when in my Naztech charging holster, and only has the occasional lockup/reboot. Usually with video, or the doc reader, and it reboots like a Luna restart, so it's fast.

    My main reason for considering going to 1Ghz, would not be the speed, it would be the low temperature, and, if there were any stability advantages. But, right now it looks like folks are splitting hairs about the risks vs benefits. So, stock Uber will remain my OC of choice.

    Thanks!
    Expecting lower temperatures from higher frequencies as a generalisation is counter-intuitive, unless race-to-idle effects are coming significantly into play.

    -- Rod
  13. #73  
    if I blow mine up, I will take full responsibility for it.. I will just buy me another one, and overclock it as soon as I get it home.... You all are doing great work, thank you... Then when the pre 2 comes out, with it's 2 ghz processor, I will eagerly await the 2.5 ghz overclock kernel....
  14. #74  
    F105 is the kernel to have. It leaves the 800's in the dust.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Banger View Post
    I believe my math is right but my head is a bit foggy but....
    So it goes from 12 years down to almost 6? (I am rounding up) Oh no! I won't be able to use my phone for 6 years straight! What phone actually lasts that long to begin with? Who actually OWNS the same phone for that long? Most people are 2 years max, so lets kill our devices!
    I've probably tried to have a device that long, but the cell companies turned off the networks that the phone used.
  16. #76  
    WARNING: ANECDOTAL RAMBLING AHEAD

    I've been using the Thundergrump (or whatever it is, the 105/1GHz one.) for a few days now, and overall my (regular, Sprint) Pre seems to be running cooler than it did at 800 MHz. Also compared to 800 MHz:

    • Glyder2 loads in a reasonable amount of time
    • Fewer hangs when flick-scrolling through lists while other tasks are running in the background (like loading up Preware databases)
    • Battery life is noticeably worse, but for me the benefits far outweigh that drawback
    • Fewer cases of the system getting "overloaded" (my own term) and doing a Luna restart to recover.

    So Mr. Unixpsycho gets a big thumbs up from me for this one. I hope we don't have to wait long for a 1.4.5-compatible version to show up.
  17. #77  
    I installed the Thunderchief F105 patch and Govnah 0.5.0 yesterday. So I'm waiting for my device to equalize before I really put it through the paces (not to mention the fact that I'm breaking in a new Mugen 1400 battery).

    Today, I have noticed that Google Maps did indeed load faster, but since this is an app that loads all info from the cloud and doesn't reside on the device itself, it also could be due to a stronger connection at times. I'll give it a couple of days before I start really evaluating any difference I see between this and the UK I was running at 800MHz previously. So far... I'm very excited by the work the guys have done on this! They are incredible!
  18.    #78  
    @ Hatchettjack, We think alike man! Laugh out Loud.
    Last edited by rush; 06/28/2010 at 03:17 PM.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    With respect to warranty claims, Palm has specifically stated in a public release that overclocking your device voids your warranty.

    Palm knows exactly which devices are running overclocking kernels from the information that your device sends back to Palm every day, and they have the right to share that information with their carrier partners.

    -- Rod
    Not if you block the logs from being sent.


    If I helped you or you have downloaded one of my files,
    then least you could do is click the "Thanks" button.
  20. #80  
    To avoid significant device degradation for commercial temperature OMAP3530/OMAP3525 devices (0C ≤ Tj ≤ 90C), the device power-on hours (POH) must be limited to one of the following:
    Dumb question: Is this saying the OMAP processor has an upper limit of 90C -- meaning a 51C temp is just past the mid-point?

    At its default state (userspace fixed at 500MHz, compcache off), the Warthog kernel (via Govnah) runs with no cards open at 37C to 39C on my phone. I do have a release day phone, so I am not sure if this is "normal".
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