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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by acidhax View Post
    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. You're comparing moving parts to electronics. You cannot.

    Of course wear-and-tear will prove your car less reliable over time. Overclocking does NOT ruin your cpu's lifetime.

    I've had enough of these analogy to vehicles.

    Overclocking is fine.
    Actually, overclocking does reduce the lifetime of the device.

    See section 3.3 of the electrical specs for the OMAP3530. Going from 500 to 800 can easily half the lifetime of the device.

    Look up 'electromigration' to understand why.

    -- Rod
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Actually, overclocking does reduce the lifetime of the device.

    See section 3.3 of the electrical specs for the OMAP3530. Going from 500 to 800 can easily half the lifetime of the device.

    Look up 'electromigration' to understand why.

    -- Rod
    So the average lifetime of the device is ______ ? I've always wondered.

    and so 1.2 Ghz is like...1/5 of the time lol
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
  3. acidhax's Avatar
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    #43  
    Electromigration in this context is not determining the lifespan of the CPU in terms of degradation in a short period of time. Overclocking may reduce the overall lifespan of the CPU, however, it doesn't reduce the span by an unrealistic amount.
    It is not ruining the lifespan, until you start putting other factors in -- such as heat distribution. Overclocking your 600mhz CPU to 800mhz isn't degrading the quality by any significant amounts. When you start factoring in inefficient voltages and improper heat dissipation, this is what contributes to this.
    By stating electromigration for your claim of killing a CPU, you're assuming that people are planning on keeping this device for over 20 years.
  4. acidhax's Avatar
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    #44  
    Just sayin.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by acidhax View Post
    Electromigration in this context is not determining the lifespan of the CPU in terms of degradation in a short period of time. Overclocking may reduce the overall lifespan of the CPU, however, it doesn't reduce the span by an unrealistic amount.
    It is not ruining the lifespan, until you start putting other factors in -- such as heat distribution. Overclocking your 600mhz CPU to 800mhz isn't degrading the quality by any significant amounts. When you start factoring in inefficient voltages and improper heat dissipation, this is what contributes to this.
    By stating electromigration for your claim of killing a CPU, you're assuming that people are planning on keeping this device for over 20 years.
    The figures are from the manufacturer's published datasheet.

    100K hours down to 50K hours.

    I provided you with the section number to look up before replying.

    -- Rod
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeeeee View Post
    So the average lifetime of the device is ______ ? I've always wondered.

    and so 1.2 Ghz is like...1/5 of the time lol
    For the CPU, it's easily expected to get 15 years out of it. Everything else, I'm not sure.
  7. #47  
    Looks like it's time to inject some facts:

    3.3 Recommended Operating Conditions
    All OMAP3530/25 modules are used under the operating conditions contained in Table 3-3.
    Note:
    To avoid significant device degradation for commercial temperature OMAP3530/OMAP3525 devices (0C ≤ Tj ≤ 90C), the device power-on hours (POH) must be limited to one of the following:
    100K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5-OPP6 to less than 23K POH.
    50K total POH when operating at OPP5 - OPP6.
    44K total POH with no restrictions to the proportion of these POH at operating points OPP1 - OPP6.

    Note: Logic functions and parameter values are not assured out of the range specified in the recommended operating conditions.
    Note that the voltage increase from OPP4 to OPP5/6 is 0.07v, and this reduces the lifetime from 100K hours to 44K hours. When we go to 720MHz, we use the same voltage as 600MHz, so don't expect much less than 44K. When we go to 800MHz, we increase it by another 0.07v, so you may expect a similar reduction on top of the reduction from 100K to 44K hours.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by acidhax View Post
    For the CPU, it's easily expected to get 15 years out of it. Everything else, I'm not sure.
    Well I can tell you my Palm Pre isn't going to last 15 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
  9. #49  
    50,000 hours divided by 24 hours = 2083.3333 days divided by 365 days = 5.7 years. Works for me.
  10. #50  
    I believe my math is right but my head is a bit foggy but....
    So it goes from 12 years down to almost 6? (I am rounding up) Oh no! I won't be able to use my phone for 6 years straight! What phone actually lasts that long to begin with? Who actually OWNS the same phone for that long? Most people are 2 years max, so lets kill our devices!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    50,000 hours divided by 24 hours = 2083.3333 days divided by 365 days = 5.7 years. Works for me.
    If you're running at 800MHz, it could be down to 25K. Still ok for most people, but a reduction of 8 years of lifetime nonetheless.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Banger View Post
    I believe my math is right but my head is a bit foggy but....
    So it goes from 12 years down to almost 6? (I am rounding up) Oh no! I won't be able to use my phone for 6 years straight! What phone actually lasts that long to begin with? Who actually OWNS the same phone for that long? Most people are 2 years max, so lets kill our devices!
    As long as when it does die, everyone takes their own share of personal responsibility and doesn't try and get it replaced for free or under warranty, then everyone will be happy.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  13. acidhax's Avatar
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    #53  
    We just need to find a way to keep our devices nice and cool :P
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by acidhax View Post
    We just need to find a way to keep our devices nice and cool :P
    If it goes above 39 C, I take the back cover off, open the slider and put both over an air vent for 5 minutes.
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    If you're running at 800MHz, it could be down to 25K. Still ok for most people, but a reduction of 8 years of lifetime nonetheless.

    -- Rod
    I am running the Govnah/Uberkernel set at conservative with the min. set at 600Mhz and the max set at 800Mhz but the majority of the time my Pre is at idle running at 600Mhz so these numbers are very acceptable to me.
  16. #56  
    I have one question Rod, why is my battery life so good at idle, is there some kind of battery conservation built in the Uberkernel? My email is set to check every 15 min, wifi is on and so is GPS. I am using an Mugen 1400 battery but I don't think is has that big of an effect on the battery life.
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  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    As long as when it does die, everyone takes their own share of personal responsibility and doesn't try and get it replaced for free or under warranty, then everyone will be happy.

    -- Rod
    Worse case for me, I will use my insurance that is what I am paying it for right? Do you know what it is down to when running at 1ghz or even 1.2ghz? Though my phone for the most part is idle so it is back down to 500mhz so I am guessing it will last me till feb when my year is up.

    Currently running over 24 hours and my battery has not hit below 60%, that is with use btw, mostly just texting and some other odd's and ends like The Helicopter Game and Skyclimber, battery monitor says I have another 48 hours left for the phone. I dunno why it is lasting this long, it never lasted this long before even with it being idle.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Banger View Post
    Worse case for me, I will use my insurance that is what I am paying it for right? Do you know what it is down to when running at 1ghz or even 1.2ghz? Though my phone for the most part is idle so it is back down to 500mhz so I am guessing it will last me till feb when my year is up.

    Whether you use insurance for an event which you caused by operating a device outside of it's manufacturer's specified limits is up to your own personal sense of responsibility and morality.

    The only published figures are those I quoted (100K, 50K, 44K). The 25K for 800MHz is a projection based on pure speculation. It could be 43K or 10K for all we know. What it is for 1.2GHz is way beyond the realms of even speculation.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
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    #59  
    To start overclocking I just need the kernel and the battery monitor app and that's it? The pre is ungodly slow at 500mhz. I have the sprint pre and the phone runs terrible at times. slow
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by delta7 View Post
    To start overclocking I just need the kernel and the battery monitor app and that's it? The pre is ungodly slow at 500mhz. I have the sprint pre and the phone runs terrible at times. slow
    Please refer to the official overclocking thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
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