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  1.    #1  
    so I was thinking why in the world is palm releasing a phone that is over a year old on multiple carriers. The olny thing that I can come up with is that what ever the update for web os is in the fall will be so major that it will still be able to compete with other phones. What do you guys think?
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Maybe because they don't have anything else to release? It would be hard for me to imagine a software update improving hardware features and specs in any significant way.
    Well, they could enable GUI video acceleration, that should have been enabled on launch day and is currently available on every other phone.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Well, they could enable GUI video acceleration, that should have been enabled on launch day and is currently available on every other phone.
    Only on the iPhone. Android doesn't use it, Windows doesn't use it, etc.
  4. #4  
    both answers are correct. The Pre+ continues to be an excellent for many (myself included). I don't consider it a year old. I consider it the phone that best met my needs when I decided I might want to retire my Centro. With overclocking as massive homebrewing, I can dazzle any iPhone or Droid user. They may not buy a Pre after seeing mine, but they always acknowledge that's cool and impressive.

    Like the Treo and Centro, I'm sure Palm's plan has always been to get the Pre and Pixi phones to every carrier possible. Unfortunately, they were locked in an exclusive deal with Sprint and that slowed them down. By the time they were able to start launching on the biggest carriers, Android had picked up momentum, while Palm and Sprint both managed to fail completely to properly position and advertise a truly wonderful phone.

    Sure, their next phones may be better (as long as they still have a keyboard) but the current devices were far enough ahead of others that I still see them as very current.

    But that's just me...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    both answers are correct. The Pre+ continues to be an excellent for many (myself included). I don't consider it a year old. I consider it the phone that best met my needs when I decided I might want to retire my Centro. With overclocking as massive homebrewing, I can dazzle any iPhone or Droid user. They may not buy a Pre after seeing mine, but they always acknowledge that's cool and impressive.

    Like the Treo and Centro, I'm sure Palm's plan has always been to get the Pre and Pixi phones to every carrier possible. Unfortunately, they were locked in an exclusive deal with Sprint and that slowed them down. By the time they were able to start launching on the biggest carriers, Android had picked up momentum, while Palm and Sprint both managed to fail completely to properly position and advertise a truly wonderful phone.

    Sure, their next phones may be better (as long as they still have a keyboard) but the current devices were far enough ahead of others that I still see them as very current.

    But that's just me...
    Ayup, my Pre + was released in January, (purchased in March), and I am happy to say I have NEVER seen the "too many cards issue", nor had any problems with my particular unit's keyboard/hardware. Still *very* much looking forward to some "new iron" with WebOS in it...

    But on improvements to WebOS itself - I would like to see improvement in the ability to run voice-actuated/command applications. The inability of the current WebOS phones to handle voice commands via bluetooth is so basic in today's cell phones I STILL cannot believe the Palm Pre doesn't support it - nor can I understand how I bought a phone without knowing it couldn't do something so seemingly simple. Better support for AAC+ is also a must item IMO.

    Guess what I'm trying to say is that simply fixing what is already missing from WebOS is probably the best "major change" or development Palm could do for this, otherwise wonderful, operating system.
  6. #6  
    yeah, the major change IS GPU being used for non-PDK OS stuff. What I don't get is why it's slated for a Fall release? Are they just now getting around to this??? I would think it could be ready much sooner, but what do I know? I don't work for Palm.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Well, they could enable GUI video acceleration, that should have been enabled on launch day and is currently available on every other phone.
    Gotta love statements like this. "Every other phone"? Are you sure? Really? You do realize that not "every other phone" even has the capability. Even of those that do, your statement is simply incorrect.
  8. #8  
    Of course, the "roadmap" is likely to change, but Palm's plan for quite some time has been to continue to update WebOS. I suspect you're going to continue to see a few more carriers here and there, and see updates to WebOS as well. Those updates will be incorporated into whatever new hardware they come out with.
  9. #9  
    Perhaps on the plus models, the regular Pres can't handle what they got...
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by QuarlesLT View Post
    Only on the iPhone. Android doesn't use it, Windows doesn't use it, etc.
    To add onto that, most Android phones have poor GPUs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    yeah, the major change IS GPU being used for non-PDK OS stuff. What I don't get is why it's slated for a Fall release? Are they just now getting around to this??? I would think it could be ready much sooner, but what do I know? I don't work for Palm.
    GPU acceleration is harder than you would think. Just think how long it took adobe to implement hardware acceleration into Flash... they are STILL currently working on it. 1.5 is expected to have CSS transitions, GPU accelerations, and Javascript optimizations and slated for release in Fall (my guess is a late fall).

    Currently having the launch day Pre, I feel the pressure of old hardware. When I can see benefits on overclocking, poor build quality, and TMC errors, it makes me that more anxious for the next device so I can hop on.


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  11. #11  
    i think its a good strategy for them to get all those carriers familiar with webos. that way when they do release new hardware sales rep will be able to better sell the phones
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Gotta love statements like this. "Every other phone"? Are you sure? Really? You do realize that not "every other phone" even has the capability. Even of those that do, your statement is simply incorrect.
    I should have said "every other smartphone." WinMo doesn't really count, as the current versions don't really do any graphical effects, and they are really only usable with a stylus. Another poster mentioned that Android does not use GPU UI acceleration. I'm not sure that is correct. I've played with a few Android devices, and the graphical interface was much smoother than ours. Another poster said that Android devices have poorer GPUs. That may be the case, but the original iPhone had the crappiest GPU by today's standards, and it is still the smoothest device of the competition to date. And finally, there is no reason why it can't be done. Apple did it 3 years ago, on inferior hardware. Palm simply chose not to, perhaps to get the phone out of the door sooner, and that is their mistake.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    I should have said "every other smartphone." WinMo doesn't really count, as the current versions don't really do any graphical effects, and they are really only usable with a stylus. Another poster mentioned that Android does not use GPU UI acceleration. I'm not sure that is correct. I've played with a few Android devices, and the graphical interface was much smoother than ours. Another poster said that Android devices have poorer GPUs. That may be the case, but the original iPhone had the crappiest GPU by today's standards, and it is still the smoothest device of the competition to date. And finally, there is no reason why it can't be done. Apple did it 3 years ago, on inferior hardware. Palm simply chose not to, perhaps to get the phone out of the door sooner, and that is their mistake.
    You are still comparing apples to oranges..... comparing an OG that couldn't do many thing webos does, then saying they were able to enhance the underperforming UI with a GPU doesn't make sense. The 3G STILL can't compete with my NON-plus Palm Pre in overall use. It can do certain things better in a single app operating sense, but when you try to do something else with a current 3G with your beloved GPU enabled UI, I still beat it. But hey, who wants to be able to use their phone for nav, music, texting and phone calls all at once..... right?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    I should have said "every other smartphone." WinMo doesn't really count, as the current versions don't really do any graphical effects, and they are really only usable with a stylus. Another poster mentioned that Android does not use GPU UI acceleration. I'm not sure that is correct. I've played with a few Android devices, and the graphical interface was much smoother than ours. Another poster said that Android devices have poorer GPUs. That may be the case, but the original iPhone had the crappiest GPU by today's standards, and it is still the smoothest device of the competition to date. And finally, there is no reason why it can't be done. Apple did it 3 years ago, on inferior hardware. Palm simply chose not to, perhaps to get the phone out of the door sooner, and that is their mistake.
    Android does NOT use GPU UI acceleration, just check other forums. The Droid feels just as slow if not slower than my Pre if you ask me, even overclocked. The Nexus one and Evo are smoother because of their CPU. They are just beginning to tap into the GPU only for 3D games, Gameloft released some a few weeks ago. Using the original iPhone with its latest update is terribly slow compared to most modern phones, but especially the iPhone 3GS. And the main reason Palm has taken so long to implement it is the technology for Web languages to use it is just beginning to take off. Don't forget Palm uses HTML, CSS, and Javascript for the webOS UI, not exactly easy to accelerate those with the GPU.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by QuarlesLT View Post
    Android does NOT use GPU UI acceleration, just check other forums. The Droid feels just as slow if not slower than my Pre if you ask me, even overclocked. The Nexus one and Evo are smoother because of their CPU. They are just beginning to tap into the GPU only for 3D games, Gameloft released some a few weeks ago. Using the original iPhone with its latest update is terribly slow compared to most modern phones, but especially the iPhone 3GS. And the main reason Palm has taken so long to implement it is the technology for Web languages to use it is just beginning to take off. Don't forget Palm uses HTML, CSS, and Javascript for the webOS UI, not exactly easy to accelerate those with the GPU.
    Ok, fair enough. I'm not a programmer, so I don't really understand what's involved. But that makes me wonder: if the Pre, running on stock hardware at stock speeds can't provide adequate smoothness (it can't, w/o the 800 Mhz overclock, it's unbearably slow), why did Palm decide to use CSS, etc, for the OS, instead of doing what Apple did and actually accelerate the UI using what I am guessing are different programming codes?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Ok, fair enough. I'm not a programmer, so I don't really understand what's involved. But that makes me wonder: if the Pre, running on stock hardware at stock speeds can't provide adequate smoothness (it can't, w/o the 800 Mhz overclock, it's unbearably slow), why did Palm decide to use CSS, etc, for the OS, instead of doing what Apple did and actually accelerate the UI using what I am guessing are different programming codes?
    Actually with the next update the PDK (public release) is using more than just web code and current PDK apps (3D games mostly) utilize other coding that just web based coding.

    The PDK is going to utilize C and other coding languages that are not web based. With that said, what people complain about with webos is also what people love about webos..... multitasking. I am also guessing you are speaking about a non plus Pre as far as performance. Either way, these complaints about webos are related to the fact that webos doesn't tie the users hands when it comes to running as many and any applications they want. So yeah there are more factors at hand than GPU.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Ok, fair enough. I'm not a programmer, so I don't really understand what's involved. But that makes me wonder: if the Pre, running on stock hardware at stock speeds can't provide adequate smoothness (it can't, w/o the 800 Mhz overclock, it's unbearably slow), why did Palm decide to use CSS, etc, for the OS, instead of doing what Apple did and actually accelerate the UI using what I am guessing are different programming codes?
    You should try my tip I posted a few weeks ago if you haven't already, search for "setting logging minimal speeds up Pre" (without quotes). It should help with performance at stock speeds.
  18. #18  
    I remember reading something about a year and a half ago dealing with Apple's patent portfolio limiting competitors from using the GPU for OS interface rendering. (The method apple uses [which is very efficient] is protected.) Could this be why we're not seeing Android, WebOS, and Nokia (whatever there current version is called) offloading the OS interface rendering to GPU's? Maybe everyone is still searching for another efficient way to achieve this without infringing on Apple's patents.

    I briefly looked for the original article I read this in, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can do a little digging and post up some links.
  19. dreDREb13's Avatar
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    #19  
    I've been reading on here, and the majority of people that seem to feel that their phone is "aging" are those that bought the Palm Pres on Sprint. For them, I understand. As far as I know, Palm hasn't tried to update the phone's hardware in any way (in terms of slider and oreo effects", at least), and for that, I understand why they'd want a new phone.

    Let's face it: As great as webOS is, the original Pre's were pretty shoddy. Of course, the Pre Pluses still aren't the most well-built phones (could use some glass and metal, instead of plastic...), but they're much better than the original, and they even have an update to the RAM.

    I have a Pre Plus, and I absolutely love it. I know it'll last me the two years until my next contract, and while I was sort of afraid to get hardware that was apparently "out of date", I'm happy to have something that suits me just fine. Plus, with the overclock to 800 MHz, it's almost at the GHz mark, anyways.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    why did Palm decide to use CSS, etc, for the OS
    Umm, well: you do know it's called "webOS" for a reason, right? The entire purpose of webOS is to utilize Web standards that are both ubiquitous and the future. It's also precisely why HP bought Palm--because webOS embraces future technologies. You've heard the little spat between Apple and Adobe, and the conflict between Flash and HTML5, right?

    Yes, it's taken awhile for fundamental technologies to catch up with webOS, but they are. This is why we don't yet have a GPU accelerated UI (that's been waiting for stable CSS transforms and such), and why we don't yet have audio and camera APIs (those are just now becoming available in HTML5). Palm made the deliberate decision to implement industry standards rather than making proprietary APIs, which will serve them very well in the future.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
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