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  1.    #1  
    Ever since I've had my Pre its been a fact that it can only last about a day before it will give the too many cards error with no cards open when trying to launch a 3d game. I realise this is due to a memory leak which gradually increasingly reduces the amount of free RAM available.

    After searching the forums I downloaded jstop which somehow magically clears the memory and lets me run even a beast like NOVA after a straight week of use without restarts, it really is awesome.

    But my question is does this memory leak problem only happen on the pre or is it also present on the pixi? Also is the double RAM of the pre plus enough to prevent the leakage ever becoming too great for the 3d games? and finally why can't palm fix this problem with an update to the code? I don't really understand what causes it but its the one thing in my mind that cripples the device. Without preware and jstop what would otherwise be the best OS out there is reduced to a level below windows mobile where it requires a task manager to be able to launch intensive apps but its actually worse than winmo because it doesn't have one.

    How is Palm going to get round this problem? If its easy to fix you would imagine they would have done it already and if it can't be fixed then webOS has got serious problems. The only possibility I can think of is that the problem has only become apparent after the release of memory intensive PDK games and thus Palm has only just started working on a fix and it will arrive in 1.45
  2. #2  
    Memory leaks aren't easy to track down. Sure you can see that something is leaking memory but to find the exact problem within your code can take a long long time, and if you have lots of leaks then it will take time to fix all of them, and each time palm changes something they could introduce new memory leaks.

    -Toaster
  3. #3  
    Double the RAM does make a huge difference. Think of it like this.

    If WebOS naturally consumes 200mb to run, then that leaves 56MB RAM to be free (on Sprint Pre with 256MB).

    On a Pre Plus (with 512MB), WebOS = 200mb therefore leaving 312MB free RAM.

    312MB/56MB = 5.5 more times of free RAM. Now this is all hypothetical, but you can understand the concept.


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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    Double the RAM does make a huge difference. Think of it like this.

    If WebOS naturally consumes 200mb to run, then that leaves 56MB RAM to be free (on Sprint Pre with 256MB).

    On a Pre Plus (with 512MB), WebOS = 200mb therefore leaving 312MB free RAM.

    312MB/56MB = 5.5 more times of free RAM. Now this is all hypothetical, but you can understand the concept.
    Grats on breaking 1000 posts Abyssul!

    Ok, back on topic!
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  5. #5  
    Am I the only one who can open 37 web browsers on a original Pre?

    Thanks Complex Pants
    Last edited by Abyssul; 05/23/2010 at 02:47 PM.


    If I helped you or you have downloaded one of my files,
    then least you could do is click the "Thanks" button.
  6. #6  
    Memory leaks are probably most often caused by applications, which of course are written primarily by third party developers. So, while Palm can build in mechanisms (e.g., garbage collection) to make up for errant apps, it's ultimately up to individual developers to fix.

    As an example (and not to pick on it, because it's a great app and the developer has been quick to fix), Switcharoo has been known to suffer from memory leaks in some older builds. Uninstalling it returned webOS to a much more reliable state. Any app that runs in the background for notifications and such can cause an issue.

    The good thing is, this is definitely a self-limiting problem in that more memory just fixes it (for the most part). And since any new webOS devices will have 512MB or more, its just Pre and Pixi/+ users who will suffer from it. It's bothersome, but it rarely stops me from doing anything except play certain 3D games. One thing Palm definitely needs to work on is making webOS boot faster: there's no such thing as a "quick reboot" to fix something as things stand today.
    Last edited by wynand32; 05/23/2010 at 05:44 PM.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    Am I the only one who can open 37 web browsers on a original Pre?

    Thanks Complex Pants
    I have done 26 different apps. 13 including a smaller 3D game.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    The good thing is, this is definitely a self-limiting problem in that more memory just fixes it (for the most part). And since any new webOS devices will have 512MB or more, its just Pre and Pixi/+ users who will suffer from it.
    Ok that was really one of my questions, is it definately self limiting? or will the extra 256mb only prolong the time until you can no longer open 3d games? Surely its possible that eventually the memory leaks from a lot of apps used over a period of a month or so could fill even the RAM of the pre plus. I realise thats probably never going to happen and if thats the case then I'm probably going to get a pre plus when O2 UK lay it down on friday.

    What I still don't understand is someone above said about Palm's garbage collection which as I understand it should flush the memory after 45 seconds or so of inactivity. Why doesn't this fix the memory leaks? How come jstop which is apparently also a manual garbage collector (therefore doing the same thing?) can fix the leaks and get your memory back to 10mb usage so easily? why can't palm do this?
  9. #9  
    jstop doesn't do anything different, it just allows you to manually force a garbage collect.

    the problem is, like was said above, is the apps that aren't really "shut down" when you close them, so webos can't garbage collect that because the app is still running in the background. There is also the issue of memory leaks (say from the web browser), so it's a combination, but some folks don't realize they have apps that even when closed are running in the background using memory and not getting GC'd because they are still running, or at least not getting GC'd as one would think they should because the app still looks like it's operating to webos and webos is not setup to kill process of an app to free memory for the new app you are opening (regardless of what it is).
  10.    #10  
    Surely when you force a manual GC with jstop it seems to be killing all non-system processes regardless of whether they are genuinely working in the background or just a memory leak from a badly made app. In my opinion this should be standard procedure for WebOS by default. I've been using android for the last year until the Pre came to the UK and although it sucks in comparison to WebOS it can multi-task all day because if you attempt to execute a command that requires more memory than available it automatically clears the memory of apps regardless of whether they are still running.

    Palm should adopt this same system, if you have no cards open and it detects that there is not enough memory to open a new card like a 3d game it should just arbitrarily kill non essential background apps from the memory. If the Pre Plus doesn't suffer from this problem then I can see the advantages of not doing that but for Pre and Pixi users it seems like the most logical step and I'm surprised it wasn't built into the OS in the original code.
  11. #11  
    I can say memory leaks occur just with Universal or contact search. I have this on a freshly rebooted or even doctored Pre and not running any apps. It will be evident only if you have a large contact database - 7000 in mine.
    So don't blame only 3rd party apps, webOS itself is to blame.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    I have done 26 different apps. 13 including a smaller 3D game.
    I didn't recognize you with your new avatar.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by marxman.13 View Post
    Surely when you force a manual GC with jstop it seems to be killing all non-system processes regardless of whether they are genuinely working in the background or just a memory leak from a badly made app. In my opinion this should be standard procedure for WebOS by default. I've been using android for the last year until the Pre came to the UK and although it sucks in comparison to WebOS it can multi-task all day because if you attempt to execute a command that requires more memory than available it automatically clears the memory of apps regardless of whether they are still running.

    Palm should adopt this same system, if you have no cards open and it detects that there is not enough memory to open a new card like a 3d game it should just arbitrarily kill non essential background apps from the memory. If the Pre Plus doesn't suffer from this problem then I can see the advantages of not doing that but for Pre and Pixi users it seems like the most logical step and I'm surprised it wasn't built into the OS in the original code.
    The problem is your concept conflicts with the general concept of webos. For better or worse (not saying you have to accept it), webos is built to let ANY app multi task and run in the background.... as such webos can't really know what apps can be killed vs what apps can't be killed.



    As for the cat with 7000 contacts, yeah I could see that slowing down a phone with universal search regardless of OS..... I mean if you have a universal search, clearly that is 7000 contacts with who knows how much info in each contact it has to load, like anything else that much data is gonna take some processing. I am not a webos apologist, just saying that regardless that is gonna lag a GUI and OS regardless of specs when it comes to a phone that is running a form of universal search.
  14. #14  
    Aren't memory problems a universal law of some sort when it comes to smart phones, or just the modern world in general? Every computer I've ever been on, every smartphone and smartdevice I've ever picked up has had issues with dumping/ managing memory.

    I don't want to disregard your frustrations, but isn't this something we just have to live with in this day in age? Won't there always be a deficit of memory because device makers will always cut corners to keep a competitive price?

    Sure, a developer could stuff 2 gigs of memory into their device, but that would only cater to that .00001% of hardcore (irresponsible/ confused/ crazy) users. Not to mention the fact that that would raise the cost of the device considerably. And I don't think the makers of any handheld device would make that kind of hardware upgradeable because they'd rather sell you a whole new device than just a couple of new parts.
    Last edited by Jahooba; 05/23/2010 at 07:22 PM. Reason: clarifying stuff
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    Am I the only one who can open 37 web browsers on a original Pre?

    Thanks Complex Pants
    I got EXACTLY 37 when it said " too many cards "

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