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  1. #41  
    @whitenack

    Thanks for the info. There are several options. First question. If you give your Treo to your wife, will it still have a data plan? Second, does she remember to "synch" with the home PC? If you are keeping a common calendar, you would need to hotsync periodically for the phone to have the same calendar as the PC.

    If she is going to have a data plan, she can possibly access google cal or yahoo cal via the browser. If there will be no data plan, she will just have to learn to sync with the PC every day or two.

    I am going to think about this for a bit, and wait for your answers. Synergy on the Pre is designed for exactly your scenario. You both can use separate calendars and the Pre will display them both in a color coded view. Unfortunately you want the common calendars on HER phone... I am going to think about that while I wait for your answers...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Very well put!! I'm serious, I hadn't thought about it that way, but you're right. However, there's a third type of person, somewhat similar to #2.

    Person #3
    The person who is primarily a desktop user, but uses a different PIM besides the Palm PIM - Outlook or GroupWise. The majority of the data was entered in via a desktop app, but was frequently added to or modified from the phone. This user is may also be "primarily" a Calendar and Contacts user. They too don't use tasks and memos much, or if they do are happy with handheld only versions, or versions that have other synchronization capabilities.

    I'm the #3 guy
    I thought the last of #3 died off when they stopped selling the Centro...

    But, I ran into someone still using GroupWise the other day too!
  3. #43  
    At this point in the game I feel that PALM will never revisit the PIM/synch issue again. The cloud, and using Google seems to be enough for them. My last resort has been to use Pimico Software's PIMLICAL program which is now synching with Google. Pimlico are the people who bought us the original PALM DateBk programs. While it is a stand alone program, at least it has filled the gap between all the PIM info I had on my TX and my Pre. Hopefully one day I'll be able to bring these together under one PIM, but until then I will have my new cloud Google PIM on my PC.
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @whitenack

    Thanks for the info. There are several options. First question. If you give your Treo to your wife, will it still have a data plan? Second, does she remember to "synch" with the home PC? If you are keeping a common calendar, you would need to hotsync periodically for the phone to have the same calendar as the PC.

    If she is going to have a data plan, she can possibly access google cal or yahoo cal via the browser. If there will be no data plan, she will just have to learn to sync with the PC every day or two.

    I am going to think about this for a bit, and wait for your answers. Synergy on the Pre is designed for exactly your scenario. You both can use separate calendars and the Pre will display them both in a color coded view. Unfortunately you want the common calendars on HER phone... I am going to think about that while I wait for your answers...
    Thanks. I haven't decided about whether the Treo would keep a data plan. I don't think my wife would use it much, if at all. I would probably see if I could do without it.

    The big question is whether she will remember to sync. I could envision her going for long stretches without syncing. I wish there was a way I could initiate the sync from the desktop...that way I could just hit the button when I knew the Treo was within Bluetooth range and she wouldn't have to even worry with it.

    Yes, getting her a Pre or Pixi would be the perfect scenario, but I'm not yet ready to surrender to that option.

    When you say "the common calendar will be on HER phone", what do you mean? I wasn't clear, but I would like to see her calendar on my phone too. Not sure if that changes anything.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    Thanks. I haven't decided about whether the Treo would keep a data plan. I don't think my wife would use it much, if at all. I would probably see if I could do without it.

    The big question is whether she will remember to sync. I could envision her going for long stretches without syncing. I wish there was a way I could initiate the sync from the desktop...that way I could just hit the button when I knew the Treo was within Bluetooth range and she wouldn't have to even worry with it.

    Yes, getting her a Pre or Pixi would be the perfect scenario, but I'm not yet ready to surrender to that option.

    When you say "the common calendar will be on HER phone", what do you mean? I wasn't clear, but I would like to see her calendar on my phone too. Not sure if that changes anything.
    Thanks, good info.

    Based on the fact that I am on VZ, I can only speculate on how AT&T data plans work, but... I found that the total cost of my Pre+ plan went DOWN from my Treo/Centro to my Pre+. So, IF you are considering a data plan for her phone, you might need to sit back and look at the total monthly cost and find that it is cheaper for two webOS phones. I have the VZ unlimited voice and data - which is $99 ($69 voice + $30 data, mobile hot spot free - up to 5 PCs @ 3G speed). Previously I was paying $69 voice + $49 data + $15 tether (one PC @ 2G speed) = $133. The "new" smartphone plan wasn't available for my Centro, so the savings was only possible by switching up to a Pre. You might find that true with AT&T, that certain plans aren't available for older phones. BTW, this is something to research on their web site or by calling their telesales people. The commissioned reps in their store rarely understand this, and don't want to spend time on it because they want to make quick sales of iPhones/BlackBerry and move on...

    Also, do you have good VZ coverage? Pixi is free with contract, Pre+ is $49. For a while they ran a 2-for-1 deal, too. That's $100 savings to pay for sync software, and mobile hotspot is free... if that's an option. But, remember that Pixi doesn't do WiFi.

    I'll assume for now that it isn't, but you should get out your calculator and check...

    OK, one more question for you to look in to. VZ used something called ActiveSync to sync calendars over the air to a PC. It ran a little piece of software on the PC so that when the phone could automatically check for mail at predetermined intervals with remote access (sort of like gotomypc). If AT&T has something similar (and it syncs calendars) that could help you with automation. Pretty sure that would require a data plan, though. I never messed with activesync because I always have my laptop with me, so there wasn't anything i could leave running at home to sync with. I could just sync via bluetooth where ever I was, because I take both my PC and phone everywhere together.

    This post is getting long. Recommendations in the next post...
  6. #46  
    I think you have three good scenarios, and they will boil down to cost and automation:
    1) Pre+ for you and Treo for her.
    2) Pre+ for you and Pre+/Pixi for her (AT&T isn't selling Pixi until next month, so you have time to activate her Treo on a month-to-month...

    A) I really think if you are going with the Treo for her, you have two possibilities. You can sync your Pre+ to google calendar and sync that to Outlook, and then have her sync the Treo to outlook (better check - did your treo come with support for Outlook sync? I was thinking it wasn't included free until Centro - but I don't recall). This scenario means that every morning and night you have to be a loving husband and drop her Treo in the cradle hand push hotsync. You will have outlook automatically sync to Google Calendar and then to your Pre+ over the at&t network. Refer to my earlier post about testing that in phases to make sure google calendar works as you expect... assuming she can sync the Treo with outlook without buying software, that scenario is free and she can avoid the data plan. Not sure about color-coding calendar entries in Outlook or Google calendar. You'd have to try it to see how they show up on the Treo and Pre+

    B) You get companionlink. You lovingly drop her Treo in the cradle and hotsync to Palm Desktop, and then you sync the Pre+ with companionlink when you are home. One time cost is $40, but she gets to stay with the familiar Palm Desktop.

    C) You move to Outlook. Sync her Treo (lovingly) to Outlook, and you use CompanionLink or Pocket Mirror to sync your Pre+ with Outlook when you are home.

    The downside to these is that updates that one (or both) of you make during the day can only be shared when each of you is home to sync. That's how it must be happening with your current set up, so you have to decide if that works for you. Also will depend on how much your calendar changes during the day and how often either of you are home to sync with the PC.


    D) Fully automated solution: You both move to WebOS. Each of you gets your own google calendar account (or yahoo calendar, etc) and let Synergy automatically sync both calendars to both phones. They will automatically display as a single calendar on each phone with each person's calendar automatically color coded. you can each look in one place, in a single view, and never have to remember to sync. This scenario is what Palm had in mind when they put their unique hotsync skills on steroids and created Synergy. This should also work for sharing contacts. It would require the $30 data plan for each webOS phone, of course. You should be able to share minutes to keep the voice cost down. But, if you decide to put a data plan on the Treo (or if AT&T forces you to - which they might), this may not cost any more than with the Treo...

    Since I don't use Google calendar, I am speculating a bit on this. However, each of of the scenarios should work - and you can have fun with your Pre+ to test them out.

    Finally, if you decide to use Outlook and a 3rd party product to sync to Outlook locally rather than via google, you should take a look at Pocket Mirror if you also have wifi in the house. I didn't think I would mind the need for CompanionLink to use USB to sync, but after using Pocket Mirror over WiFi for a few days, I saw the advantage: My PC is in my basement office, so I would procrastinate going downstairs to sync the calendar and then I'd forget to do it and risk missing my first appointment the next day... With Pocket Mirror I just habitually sync periodically from anywhere in the house. I use Bluetooth to sync on the road since I have both devices with me at all times... Both are the same price. The advantage to CompanionLink is it will work with the old version of Palm Desktop that you are probably using on the Treo. Pocket Mirror is outlook only, and the sister-product (Echo) requires Desktop 6.2, which probably won't work with your Treo.

    If you try multiple options (third party and/or google) remember that webOS sees each sync method as a separate set of data, so you need to empty the data from your phone each time or you will duplicate everything. I learned this the hard way. Once I figured out what happened, I just did a full erase/reset of my phone between tests. A pain, but it let me be very methodical. Not sure about google, since I didn't test it.

    I hope this helps!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    ...
    The big question is whether she will remember to sync. I could envision her going for long stretches without syncing. I wish there was a way I could initiate the sync from the desktop...that way I could just hit the button when I knew the Treo was within Bluetooth range and she wouldn't have to even worry with it.

    Yes, getting her a Pre or Pixi would be the perfect scenario, but I'm not yet ready to surrender to that option.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I think you have three good scenarios, and they will boil down to cost and automation:
    1) Pre+ for you and Treo for her.
    2) Pre+ for you and Pre+/Pixi for her (AT&T isn't selling Pixi until next month, so you have time to activate her Treo on a month-to-month...
    ...
    D) Fully automated solution: You both move to WebOS. Each of you gets your own google calendar account (or yahoo calendar, etc) and let Synergy automatically sync both calendars to both phones. They will automatically display as a single calendar on each phone with each person's calendar automatically color coded. you can each look in one place, in a single view, and never have to remember to sync. This scenario is what Palm had in mind when they put their unique hotsync skills on steroids and created Synergy. This should also work for sharing contacts. It would require the $30 data plan for each webOS phone, of course. You should be able to share minutes to keep the voice cost down. But, if you decide to put a data plan on the Treo (or if AT&T forces you to - which they might), this may not cost any more than with the Treo...
    ...
    I'm going to pop in a bit here. Are you (Whitnack) trying to convince her to begin using the calendar, or is this something that she's already doing to some degree?

    I ask because of the comment that she might forget to sync (back in my "tethered" days, I was so dependent on my calendar, I made it a point to remember to sync). If you are trying to convince her to start using the system, and she is also being forced to remember to do the additional steps of syncing, I'd say that there's a good chance the whole process is doomed to failure.

    The beauty of the "D" option above is that it's all done automatically. The Treo simply was not designed to do things automatically. Syncronizing data took an active action on the part of the user. If you're now looking to have the least interested half of the equation be that person ... well, I think you see my point.

    My wife never used a PDA calendar until she got her Pixi. Her Centro pulled data from her GroupWise system at her job (and yes, different employer than I have, but they used GroupWise too - in case "someone" is wondering back atcha), but she only viewed the data, she never attempted entry. She mostly liked the device because of the email.

    That changed with the Pixi, and the use of Google Calendars. Now she was able to pull my calender to her device, and vice-versa. And it's all done in the background, with no intervention on her part. Those two pieces are what made her use it, and I'll admit, she uses it more than I do now.

    I've attached some screen shots. Pics 1 & 2 (week view and a day view) show what is being talked about in the "D option" above. Pic 3 is the desktop view of the Google calendar desktop app (basicaly a "stripped down" Chrome browser). These will help you see the calendar sharing concept clearer. The pink entries are my wife's, all of the others are mine. This is what I see on my calendar views. She sees a somewhat different view, because she has fewer calendars, and only looks at two of my calendars.

    These are "free" solutions, in that Google provides the service free, and the capabilities are built into the OS. They are not truly "free", since you have to pay for the data plans. However, saving the money might be a false savings if the final solution doesn't work because it's unwieldly.

    Here's a suggestion. You're planning on switching plans anyway. Look at the available plans. Figure out what they'd cost if one was one data and one not, and if both were on data. Look at all three providers. Find the one that hits a good "what if" for you, factoring in both options of keeping both data plans, or only keeping one.

    Then go to that provider, and get a Pre and a Pixi (or 2 Pres, Verizion is doing a good BOGO). Try the complete solution for 10-20 days. If you don't think it's worth the extra, drop the phone and data for your wife's phone, and stick with your Pre.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  8. #48  
    @hparsons

    Great post. One suggestion/favor... on page two the OP wrote a detailed description of what they are doing now. Please read that over as it may change/shorten your recommendations. I think you are on the right track (especially about calculating costs because the Treo data plans may cost more like the did on VZ). But, once you have read his post, you may be able to pinpoint your thinking to make more direct recommendations to his situation. I think you and I are on the same page, but if you consider his long post on page two, it might help you eliminate some of the variables/options in your post. That could make it easier for the OP to decide, and for those that come later to get the goodness out of your thinking. Just a suggestion. Thanks for your input, and for the screenshots. Your experience with google calendar is helpful for the OP because I've never messed with it (as you know well!).

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ml#post2458075

  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @hparsons

    Great post. One suggestion/favor... on page two the OP wrote a detailed description of what they are doing now. Please read that over as it may change/shorten your recommendations. ...
    I was vaguely aware of the details (I read them originally, but not many things like that "stick" beyond a few minutes anymore); but even after rereading, my recommendation to look at all of the carriers' offerings remains the same.

    I think the "AT&T only" option is a little shortsighted, if it's really only because he an unlocked device. That's a $50 device, the plans are multi-hundreds.

    However; after reading closer, you're right, I missed the part where his wife tried one of his earlier Palm devices, and it didn't work so well (she forgot to sync). After reading that, I'm more convinced that his scenario is not going to work.

    Whitenack I really see two basic options:
    1. Sign you both up to Google accounts set up and share the appropriate calendars, get two WebOS devices, and have everything sync'ed and shared effortlessly.
    2. Get whatever phone you want on whatever provider, get your wife a good dumbphone and leave your wife with her paper daytimer.


    Years ago, when I first really got excited about computers, I kept trying to get my wife interested in them. Then one day I read an article that has stuck with me ever since. The gist of the article was:

    Don't try to convince your wife to learn to like your tech toys. The tech toys are competition to her. You wouldn't try to get her to become friends with your mistress.

    If she meets your mistress and becomes friends with it, tread carefully.


    A word to wise..
  10. #50  
    @hparsons

    Those are wise words, indeed.

    Unless he can lovingly remember to sync her phone for her... she will keep printing stuff out. If that's the case, then he is stuck figuring out how to keep syncing with the old Palm Desktop that she is used to, and that means CompanionLink. If she can stand the switch to Outlook, then he has a shot at doing the Outlook-Google-Pre thing so she can keep printing it out. Odd that she can remember to print, but not sync while both are done in front of the same PC... Oh well.

    That's why my wife has a dumb-phone. It made her get one with a touch screen (LG Touch) because is reduces the number of menus, but she insisted on a physical keyboard. Even though she has the basics mastered, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't go back to a flip phone on the next upgrade. She just isn't going to embrace technology, but as long as she will embrace me... I'm ok with that.
  11. #51  
    Time for a little more "mud in the waters".

    Whitenack - check out Pimlical and Datebk6. From what I understand, DateBk6 will sync to the Pimlical program, (which, in effect, replaces the Palm desktop PIM). The Pimlical program will synchronize to Google Calendar. Google Calendar will sync to your Pre. This was mentioned earlier in another post, but I didn't think about the fact that Pimlical would sync with both systems. That's what you're looking for.

    If this works the way it looks, that means you still have the ability to control which calendar syncs from the Treo to Pimlical, which ones sync from Pimlical to Google, and finally, which ones go from Google to your Pre.
    Pimlico Software
    Pimlico Software home page

    You can download the package as a trial for 30 days, and buy the package (Pimlical, DateBk6, and dbfixit) as a package for $35.

    Please note though, your wife will still have to sync the Treo
  12. #52  
    Other than saving $5, I don't see the advantage over the other options...
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/18/2010 at 04:20 PM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @hparsons

    Those are wise words, indeed.

    Unless he can lovingly remember to sync her phone for her... she will keep printing stuff out. ...
    Before the Pilot caught on as well as it did, I used my corporate system to keep track of my calendar, and still printed it out to a paper planner. Part of my Monday "routine" was to take all of the "penned in" changes on paper, and put it into my system, then print out that weeks calendar. That made up for my atrocious writing, and gave me a complete activity "diary" both online and on paper. The system we used printed in Day-Timer and Monarch compatible styles, even using the preprinted printable inserts for both.

    It was a system ahead of its time. Yep, you guessed it, GroupWise

    It is much nicer now though, to have an end to end system that has all the same data, even if it's in different formats, almost effortlessly and seamlessly, and almost as instantly.
    Last edited by hparsons; 05/18/2010 at 04:29 PM.
  14.    #54  
    Wow, you guys are the best. This is great stuff, from both of you. I appreciate all the efforts you guys are giving. I'm feeling the love! hahaha.

    I appreciate the ideas. Here is my response and my thoughts...

    Canaffordit - Thanks for the thoughts. Great thought about AT&T forcing my to buy a plan for the treo that is just as expensive as the palm/pre. Because of this, I went online and chatted with AT&T. I told them the details and the rep said I would HAVE to buy the smartphone data plan for $30. I asked if it made a difference if I chose not to use it with data. The rep said it didn't matter, that if I had a treo, I had to get the $30 data plan. This kinda stirred some anti big-corporation juices in me, but I stayed polite. Really, how could they enforce this? Unless I tell them, how would they know that the phone their sim card is in is a smart phone. If I am strictly using the Treo for phone use only, how would they know? But, of course, if they force me to spend the $30 on a data plan, then the choice becomes either using a palm/pixi or nothing at all.

    Regarding VZ, up until maybe a year ago, VZ wouldn't even price plans in our area. Now, they are here in a big way. In fact, according to the coverage map, they offer 3G coverage in my little rural area, where AT&T doesn't. However, I don't trust coverage maps too much, because TMO says they have coverage all over my area and they ain't got squat, even out at the park without a building in site.

    The VZ deal is tempting, especially from an upfront cost standpoint, if we sell-out and go WebOs for both phones. However, everyone around here is AT&T, plus our family, which means less minutes used via mobile-to-mobile.

    Hparsons - Great comment about whether she is currently using the calendar system. I agree, trying to get her to go from nothing to a highly-managed syncing system would be a lot of work. Fortunately, she currently uses Palm Desktop. Also, she has seen the value of sharing our information. Several times here lately she has been at a doctors appointment and didn't have current calendar information, or had to call me for piece of information or some various other tidbit that I keep in my palm. So, fortunately, I think the benefit is seen by her. However, the easier I can make it on her, the better she will stick to it. But along the same lines, if I am the one who has to track down her phone, take it to the desktop, sync it up, then get it back in her purse after it's done, there is more a chance of forgetting to sync at a crucial time.

    Thanks for the screenshots of the Pre. I was wondering how that looked. I have been testing out Google Calendar online, but didn't have a way to see what it would look like on the device. That looks very much like what my Treo looks like, when we sync to Palm Desktop and use color coding for who's event it is..pink for her, blue for me.

    OK, so here is what I am doing right now... I am trying to cut the fat out of some of my fixed costs...I checked around and I can switch to a faster DSL for half the cost of what I am paying for cable. By the way, is there any way to know how fast the actual speeds would be? They say the max is 6.0, but it is never the max (my cable provider says my max is 5, but I am only getting 3). But, even if they say it is 6 and it is only 3, I can still cut my bill in half by switching. Also, I am looking into cutting out some of the extra channels on my cable TV. Looks like I can save quite a bit of cash by doing that. I'd cut out the cable TV altogether and just watch everything online, but I still need a place to watch my UK Wildcats. If I can cut out about $60 per month from this and that, that will make room for a Plan D.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Other than saving $5, I don't see the advantage over the other options...
    Don't know that there are many "advantages", just another system that could work. Possibly one advantage is that Pimlical promises to be multi-platform, meaning that it could (possibly) be used on other computers, and with other phones. The "sync to Treo" is really a Treo only option.

    On the other hand, I just downloaded Pimlical, and I'm not overly fond of the interface.

    Meh, not a push, just a thought.

    I'd be mostly inclined to go back to my "two basic options" opininon, but if he must use that Treo for something other than a backup emergency phone, it's another option.

    I still believe if he got two WebOS devices and gave it three weeks, his wife's paper planner would start gathering dust, and he'd never look back.

    But if I'm wrong, I'll send her my old day-timer and all of the preprinted (lines, not data) forms in it.

    After I dust it off.
  16. #56  
    I agree that if the monthly cost for the at&t plan isn't two much, two webOS devices would be amazing. If not, I think he has several ways to do this with or without google calendar.


    Hopefully he will post back as he works through the decision tree.
  17. #57  
    More food for thought:
    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    ...
    Canaffordit - Thanks for the thoughts. Great thought about AT&T forcing my to buy a plan for the treo that is just as expensive as the palm/pre....
    I don't know about Verizon, but Sprint forces you to have an unlimited data plan for the Pre (and Pixi), and I suspect they would on a new line for a Treo (though I haven't confirmed it). My guess is that all of the providers are moving towards requiring data plans. It won't be much longer before cell phones are chaged for data, and not for analog voice. Voice calls will be VOIP.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    ...
    The VZ deal is tempting, especially from an upfront cost standpoint, if we sell-out and go WebOs for both phones. However, everyone around here is AT&T, plus our family, which means less minutes used via mobile-to-mobile.
    Have you considered Sprint? Though you'd be stick with a "lowly" Pre (instead of the Pre Plus), they have free mobile to mobile between them and any other carrier.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    ...
    Thanks for the screenshots of the Pre. I was wondering how that looked. I have been testing out Google Calendar online, but didn't have a way to see what it would look like on the device. That looks very much like what my Treo looks like, when we sync to Palm Desktop and use color coding for who's event it is..pink for her, blue for me.
    At the risk of scaring you off, make no mistake about it, the Calendar interface on the Pre is very different than the Treo, and in many ways is a step backward. That said, Synergy (in my opinion) more than makes up for the deficiencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitenack View Post
    ...
    OK, so here is what I am doing right now... I am trying to cut the fat out of some of my fixed costs....
    ... If I can cut out about $60 per month from this and that, that will make room for a Plan D.
    Again, check out Sprint pricing. I think you can get both of you on a Everything Data Family 1500 plan for $130. The plan includes 1500 minutes between both lines, unlimited data, unlimited text, unlimited calls after 7pm and on weekends, and unlimited calls to mobile devices.

    Since you would be a new subscriber, you could use one of the third party offerings that have Pres for very cheap, and Pixis for free.
  18. #58  
    RE: Using smart phone as a phone only.
    ATT, Big V, and S can detect what phone is connecting to the towers and force the additional $30 on automatically. Case and point, my wife on ATT put the chip (phone card) from"dumb" phone in her "smart" nokia. In 3 min she got the message that this phone require "smart" data plan and it was automatically added to the line. Took 30 min on the phone to take it off later.
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-usp45 View Post
    RE: Using smart phone as a phone only.
    ATT, Big V, and S can detect what phone is connecting to the towers and force the additional $30 on automatically. Case and point, my wife on ATT put the chip (phone card) from"dumb" phone in her "smart" nokia. In 3 min she got the message that this phone require "smart" data plan and it was automatically added to the line. Took 30 min on the phone to take it off later.
    wow. Thanks for the info.
  20. #60  
    ome thing about vz. They allowed me to use my centro without a data plan. I bought it with data, when I lost my job I called and they turned it off. There is a setting in myverizon to block data so I didn't accidentally run up a huge bill.

    not an option with next gen smart phones.

    I kept my centro in case that happens again.

    I feel you on cost cutting. You must bbe listening to dave ramsey!

    we shut off cable completely. We get OTA channels, most in HD, plus netflix which streams to our tv. Plus hulu.

    total tv cost per month - $9

    where do you live? Have you tried OTA tv now that the signals are digital?

    only advantage to att imho is rollover minutes. After years of issues, I switched to vz and it's been 6 years of great coverage.

    one thing about the current webOS phones regarding your wife. The keyboards are WAY smaller than the Treo, and the screen doesn't respond to finger nails or a stylus. That's something to get used to...
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