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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    While it does say that it covers "Loss, Theft, Physical or Liquid damage" if you check under Section II - Exclusions, it says this:

    "We will not pay for Loss caused directly or indirectly or resulting from events, conditions or cause of Loss identified in this Section II. Such Losses are excluded regardless of any other cause or event that contributes concurrently or in any sequence to the Loss.

    G. Loss caused by or resulting from use of the Covered Property in a manner for which it was not designed or intended by the manufacturer."

    In my opinion, overclocking violates section G listed above but I suppose someone could call Asurion and ask them directly.

    I'd say you got lucky...maybe because you were honest about it or more likely the Sprint reps were clueless.

    Pretty sad that Sprint reps promote insurance fraud. People may think it's ok but we all pay higher prices for insurance because of people like that.
    I'm no expert, but that nebulous language strikes me as having equally nebulous legal implications. If there were a sea of Pre owners flooding Asurion with claims that had *clearly* broken their phones by way of overclocking them, that would be one thing, but it's clear that these devices are replaced for many other reasons on a FAR more regular basis.

    I think that clause is designed to protect against a *widespread* hardware failure stemming from the use of the phone in a non-stock configuration. Short of that sort of catastrophe, I don't foresee many, if any, individuals being denied claims due to that part of the contract, and I don't imagine that Asurion would expect their business to be conducted any differently, but who knows.

    Regardless of the technicalities, after paying for the equipment replacement plan for nearly 7 years and literally never using it until now, I'd seriously better be able to walk into the sprint store with a hacksaw in hand, saw my Pre in half on the counter in front of the rep, and still get a new one.
    Xenoc
    :: Palm III -> Palm IIIc -> Palm Vx -> Samsung SPH-i330 -> Treo 600 -> 650 -> 755p -> Palm Pre (2nd) -> Verizon Pre2::

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  2. #42  
    i like this meriwether person
  3. kalex's Avatar
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    #43  
    +1
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether View Post
    You again evidence an extreme misunderstanding of the claim process. A Pre stops working. You have insurance. You take it in and ask for it to be replaced. The Sprint guy looks at it, sees it doesn't work and orders you a refurb from Asurion. If they ask what happened, you tell them, truthfully, you don't know. Unless you are a forensic electronics specialist, you don't know what happened. All you know is it stopped working.
    Wait,

    Weren't we talking about a pre that was overclocked and destroyed based on overclocking. So, my understanding of the claims process is correct.

    You overclock your pre and you KNOW you are violating the policy. Then, the phone breaks. Now, you take the phone into the Sprint store asking for a resplacement since you have insurance.

    Now, what you have been missing from my argument since the start of this thread since this issue was based on using insurance for breaking an overclocked phone.

    Now, relating it back to your situation, essentially you are omitting the fact you knowingly overclocked the phone if/when asked. Now you can justify it by "truthfully" saying you don't know what happened?

    But, with your understanding, you are still entitled to use your insurance to get a replacement because of ambiguous insurance language?

    Please.....

    Someone who has "litigated" insurance would know that's a pile of...

    Rubbish

    Remember, insurance is not a right to be negligent. You hurt the aggregate of insureds by ascribing to an understanding of insurance such as that. I understand Asurion is making a decent profit given the deductible and premium we all pay for the TEP, but it's still no excuse to abuse the system through your own negligence.


    Ah, but therein lies the rub. Your view begs the question of whether the policy language is ambiguous. There is absolutely no doubt that it is, and that what is meant by "use" in the "manner intended" by the manufacturer needs to be interpreted by a court before either side to the insurance contract can know what their legal rights are. The insurance company position, which Asurion has never even made, but you do on its behalf, would be iffy, if they did try to deny a claim on an overclocked Pre.
    Please read the basics of Insurance, buddy.

    It's really simple at this point. If asurion denied a claim based on overclocking there wouldn't be an opportunity to seek a legal remedy. I don't think there would be a lawyer in the world that would like to represent individuals filing suit since it would be like entering a boxing match with no arms.
    Last edited by phidalgo; 05/16/2010 at 11:55 PM.
  5. #45  
    You overclock your pre and you KNOW you are violating the policy. Then, the phone breaks. Now, you take the phone into the Sprint store asking for a resplacement since you have insurance.

    Now, what you have been missing from my argument since the start of this thread since this issue was based on using insurance for breaking an overclocked phone.
    You would have failed logic class. Your logic goes: A follows B, therefore A caused B. This is a common fallacy, known particularly to afflict insurance claims adjusters when investigating valid claims.

    Just because the phone fails, and you had overclocking on it, does not mean that overclocking caused it. How many bricked phones got sent in before overclocking existed? Read the threads, man.

    Palm sent out a CYA message saying that they don't support overclocking their phones. That is not the equivalent of the Pre owner "knowing" that they are violating the terms of the insurance policy. The two things are not connected. The Palm warranty and the insurance policy are two very different things. The Palm warranty covers defects. The insurance policy covers many more situations. Whether the Palm warranty is in effect for your particular defect has nothing to do with whether your claim for damage or loss is covered by your insurance policy.

    For example, you could leave your phone in your car in the desert, and it might fail. Here in SoCal, where we go to the desert to dirt bike, such a thing could easily happen, forgetting your phone and leaving it on the dash while you went for a ride. It might get to 150 degrees in the car. The warranty probably says that you are not supposed to have the phone in certain high temperature situations. The warranty would not cover that kind of damage. And Palm would certainly not intend that you use the phone in those conditions. However, we most assuredly would expect Asurion to honor the policy and give us a new or refurbed phone if that were to happen.

    Now, relating it back to your situation, essentially you are omitting the fact you knowingly overclocked the phone. Now you can justify it by "truthfully" saying you don't know what happened?

    But, with your understanding, you are still entitled to use your insurance to get a replacement because of ambiguous insurance language?
    I'm not sure why you are not getting it.

    Omitting to state information that is not requested is not insurance fraud. This is especially so if it is not clear that the information would cause your claim to be denied. It is up to the insurance company to decide what investigation they want to make, and what questions they want to ask, and whether they will deny a claim on a policy that is ambiguous in the context of the particular claim.

    Remember, insurance is not a right to be negligent. You hurt the aggregate of insureds by ascribing to understanding of insurance such as that.
    Actually, Asurion's policy does give you the "right" to be negligent. You can do stupid things, and you are still entitled to a replacement phone. In fact, many insurance policies are designed to relieve people of liability for something stupid that they did. You can be drunk driving and have a wreck and your insurance company pays for it (before they cancel your insurance.) You can smoke a cigarette in bed and start a fire and your homeowner's policy covers it. You can be a bad lawyer and fail to file something that you should have, and your insurance foots the bill (never happened to me, by the way). That is such a ludicrous statement that it is hard to imagine that you are really in the insurance industry.

    Have a nice evening, and whatever you do, don't install any overclocking, it's not covered by insurance!
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by SportingLions View Post
    Yep, works just like a car's Warranty.

    If your car is useless because the electrical system malfunctions, they can't void your warranty because you have a high performance exhaust system.
    Actually they can if there is no explicit consent in the warranty to do such modifications. See warranties are not geared toward the end user but for the company. So if something is not in the warranty then they can deny coverage due to that fact "It doesn't say Yay/Nay, so declination of warranty coverage is up to the manufacturer", just as such in your car analysis.

    EDIT: I love this thread.
    Last edited by demetry14; 05/17/2010 at 03:10 AM.
    16 Candles, The Breakfast Club SB, Friday SB, App Catalog Fix, Palm Pre/Pixi - USB Modem, TMC Workaround, SCRIM Changing OTF

    The fastest way to install Preware on your WebOS device.
    Put your device in Developer mode.
    From your PC download the Preware installer from http://get.preware.org
    Run the Preware installer while the WebOS device is connected with the USB cable to your PC.
    Vualla Preware is installed.]
  7. double1's Avatar
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    #47  
    If you sell me a dog that's supposed to be a champion fighter but turns out that without steroids he will not become one, and I pump him full of steroids till he croaks, I come back to you saying "hey, you said he was supposed to be a champion", Am I at fault here? I just wanted the best by any means necessary.
    We overclockers just want our phones to be the best and outperform all other phones, and if that voids my warranty then I say "@#$% the warranty!"
    WebOS rules haaha
    Last edited by double1; 05/17/2010 at 05:17 AM.
  8. tsnum4's Avatar
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    #48  
    i'm not using UK or govnah, but I do have a question ....

    From my understanding of homebrew; noone 'jailbroke' these phones; all of the mods are based on the open source platform. And since WebOS is an open source platform and they EXPECT people to develop things to change how the phone works; aren't we all really using the phone 'as they intended' even if it ends up in 'frying the phone'?

    or am i wrong here?
  9. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by tsnum4 View Post
    or am i wrong here?
    I think you are wrong here.

    Just because something uses open source, it doesn't mean you can change that open source to have the hardware running 10,000 x faster, and when it fries the hardware in milliseconds, claim the hardware was faulty and you want it replaced for free.

    To me it's simply common sense, fairness, and decency. Don't expect the hardware to do a lot more than it was built and rated for.

    You can add NOS to your car to make it go faster. Adding NOS, blowing up the engine by giving it 600 more horsepower then it was built for, then expecting the car manufacturer or insurance company to replace the car for you just makes you a jerk. This is the phone equivalent.


    Let me qualify. I have nothing against overclocking. I've been overclocking computers I build for a couple decades. It's a fun hobby. Not all CPUs handle it as well or can overclock as far. Overclocking tends to make the shorten CPU's life. Even when returned to normal speed, it may fail earlier due to stress put on it during the overclocking. When I lose a CPU I am or have in the passed overclocked, I don't do a warranty claim on it because the burnout was almost certainly my fault. I man up and take responsibility for that.

    Oh, one of the other things is overclockers tend to put on VERY good heatsinks/cooling on the CPUs to get them running stable at higher speeds. Our phones are wrapped in plastic. That means it has a very hard time getting rid of excess heat, and we've all seen how hot our Pre's get when we are using them a lot. Palm probably did a pretty good job of judging how hard they could reliably push the CPUs in this environment, and have decided to underclock them from what the CPUs are actually rated for. Now this was probably with the dual purpose of of trying to save battery life as well, but when they get as hot as they do at normal speed, overclocking is probably pushing things a bit. No problem if you really want to do that, it's your hardware, and some folks have had good success. But man up and take responsibility for it.
    Last edited by LurkerX; 05/17/2010 at 06:48 AM.
  10. #50  
    Whoever can go into a store with a phone tweaked to all of our fun specifications and get help is just lucky.
    My repair store went from helping you download and hack Windows Mobile (thank goodnesss that is gone) to going bezerk when I accidently left Battery Percent on my phone. They knew I had "hacked my rom" with a "custom rom". Argued and told them can't do this, but my account was noted and they wouldn't look at it. Had to trade via Palm's warranty. Went back in with another problem on new phone, everything removed, and they still wouldn't look at it until I showed them different serial number on phone.

    So, I have a feeling this comes from top down to reduce the trade-in-store replacements, meaning cost and profitability. I was advised to call Assurion, but now I just doctor (pain in ****-just lost some vacation pics I hadn't backed up) if I need something.

    That is the smartest way to approach help.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by nmoreman View Post
    Whoever can go into a store with a phone tweaked to all of our fun specifications and get help is just lucky.
    My repair store went from helping you download and hack Windows Mobile (thank goodnesss that is gone) to going bezerk when I accidently left Battery Percent on my phone. They knew I had "hacked my rom" with a "custom rom". Argued and told them can't do this, but my account was noted and they wouldn't look at it. Had to trade via Palm's warranty. Went back in with another problem on new phone, everything removed, and they still wouldn't look at it until I showed them different serial number on phone.

    So, I have a feeling this comes from top down to reduce the trade-in-store replacements, meaning cost and profitability. I was advised to call Assurion, but now I just doctor (pain in ****-just lost some vacation pics I hadn't backed up) if I need something.

    That is the smartest way to approach help.

    You need to find a friendlier store!
  12. #52  
    I don't know how this devolved into the the theory of insurance, but I'll say this. My warranty for my Pre expires on June 6: exactly 20 days from today. If I void my warranty today I'm really not losing that much. Hence I'm willing to take some additional risks with my phone. Even if that means voiding my dwindling warranty. Because come June 1, I can get an entirely new phone if I so desire.

    My point is this: I think it voids my entire warranty. If I overclock my phone, I can't complain about keyboard problems anymore. Is it likely related? No. But it could be and I shouldn't have overclocked the phone. I was just inviting unpredictable problems. And I know that. I'm ok with it. Some people will take the risk in order to get better performance out of their phone. And for those of us who got our Pre's on launch day, the risk is getting smaller and smaller.
    Twitter: dullgeek
  13. #53  
    This thread has jumped the shark espeically with double1's use of dogfighting as a comparison to overclocking your Pre. Why doesn't someone just call up Assurian and ask them if overclocking your Pre violates the terms of their insurance. Everyone is trying to play lawyer when the answer is a phone call away.
  14. #54  
    if it fries ur phone just report it lost and get another one
    [FONT="Garamond"]Dam1 J1sFONT]
  15. WhoMe's Avatar
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    #55  
    Very interesting read. Thanks for the insight Meriwether.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
    Very interesting read. Thanks for the insight Meriwether.
    You are welcome. It started out as a fun thread about showing off our homebrewed phones to the stores that sell them, until the insurance lobbyists tried to hijack the thread.
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