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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmatlosz View Post
    Verizon just sucks all around....high prices, NO customer service, lack-luster coverage and sales reps with the intelligence of a house plant. ( not to insult house plants, at least they have the intelligence to lean towards the light ) ...
    OK, I'm going to do what may seem like a 180 here, but it's really not (more on that in a minute).
    Folks amaze me. We want a $500 device to be $30 subsidized by the carrier. We want the carrier to give us unlimited data, unlimited voice, and do it as cheaply as possible. Of course, when we walk in to be taken care of, we want there to be no line ever (in other words, employees standing around waiting for someone to help.). We also want those employees to be highly trained on every device in the store. Finally, we want them to have inside knowledge on each device as well.

    Guess what, that's not a business plan for success.

    When I go to MacDonald's, I expect to get a cheap hamburger. When I take my wife to Boi Na Braza, I expect to get our $200 worth. It really is about having realistic expectations.

    That said, I don't think it's unreasonable for a salesrep not to depend on blasting a product in order to convince someone to buy what he/she wants them to. If they can't sell XYZ on its merits, then they should let the customer buy what they want.

    So far, I've not read a single reasonable example of a Verizon employee turning someone away from the Pre on here. Not one. That tends to make me think that the stories are more than anectdotal.

    I've never walked into a Sprint store intending to buy a product, only to have the salesperson tell me it's "junk". If I did, at any store, I'd immediately ask to speak to the manager.
  2. romls's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, I disagree. Reps tend to sell what they are comfortable with, and reps are generally more comfortable with the phone they use. The lazier the rep, the more likely that is to be true.

    No customer is going to accept the reps recommendation if they say "I'd rather you buy xxyyzz, because that's what I use, and it saves me from having to learn other phones, plus, since I like it, I push it." Instead, they blame excessive returns.

    Excessive returns is totally bogus. If/when someone returns a phone, they almost always will get another phone from the same store, even if it's a different brand. The rep doesn't lose the sale. That argument is a straw man, plain and simple.
    I have to agree with this. I've gone into my local Verizon store several times and noticed that every sales person except one has a Motorola Droid. The Motorola is the first phone you see when you walk in and there is usually a rep right there by it to shove it down your throat. You spend time listening to them and it doesn't matter if the phone is for your mom, wife, brother sister or three year old son, the Droid is the best for them. The Pre on the other hand is hidden behind the welcome podium on the other side of the store. It's very easy to miss. If I had not been looking for the Pre, I wouldn't have even noticed they had more phones there.

    When I had an issue with the screen on my phone freezing on off, they were polite, but also a little snooty. They were able to look up the problem and fix it though. Once they did, I asked the rep if he'd downloaded Need For Speed yet on his Droid and showed him a demo on my Pre.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    I would think that palm should spend their time actually designing good hardware and error-free software, so that users are not forced to return their phones, and sales reps can actually keep their commission.
    Error-free software is NOT possible; rock-solid hardware is.
  4. #44  
    Had a friend go in to buy a phone. The most important thing to him was tethering, so he told the rep that I'd recommended the Palm Pre. The Verizon rep told him that phone doesn't tether and instead pushed him into buying a Droid!! An outright lie! Someone who wanted tethering was pushed from the ONLY Verizon phone with official tethering support to a phone with none!
  5. #45  
    So much of the complaints here boil down to "I'm not mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones. I'm mad because they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones."

    It's not personal, folks. It's business. When WebOS devices become better business to a carrier, they'll push them more. The Droid brand is fantastic business for Verizon. They should be pushing it.
  6. #46  
    i don't blame the reps for not pushing the pre. I'm on my 7 pre and i know of a few others that are on pre # 3+..... and I'm on sprint, looks like palm never addressed the issues from the sprint launch. i wish hp and palm good luck with their next device, but I'm all set with beta testing for palm.
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  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So much of the complaints here boil down to "I'm not mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones. I'm mad because they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones."

    It's not personal, folks. It's business. When WebOS devices become better business to a carrier, they'll push them more. The Droid brand is fantastic business for Verizon. They should be pushing it.
    Um, no. Read my post. They pushed my friend away from the only phone that could deliver what he told them was his most important factor in buying a smartphone!
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So much of the complaints here boil down to "I'm not mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones. I'm mad because they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones."
    Actually, I'm not mad at Verizon at all, but I do think the salespeople push the Droid at all costs. It makes sense, most of the sales people are young and in the prime target market for the Droid. They've bought into the marketing and it appears to be a good phone. Unfortunately, Palm dropped the ball on its marketing of the Pre and Pre Plus (and in its selection of Sprint as the exclusive carrier at the start). When the Droid got to Verizon, it was new and had momentum created by its marketing campaign. When the Pre Plus got to Verizon, it was 7 months old and had no momentum. I wish we could have swapped Sprint with Verizon at the launch; I think it would have seen a much different sales result.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So much of the complaints here boil down to "I'm not mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones. I'm mad because they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones."
    ...
    I'm curious, which of the complaints on here lead you to beleive that? Because from what I've seen, it's just the opposite. People looking to buy a Palm Pre, and were either almost forced, or simply lied to, to get them to buy something else. Here are the examples (in this thread):

    Quote Originally Posted by scottw911 View Post
    ...He would "not sell them that junk" because the salespeople are tired of losing their commission when people return the phones to the store...
    Quote Originally Posted by evanderlongoria View Post
    ... i kept walking over to the pre, they kept trying to make me play with a droid or incredible. they told me that the pre was no good and i was better off going with the chocolate touch if i wanted a phone like the pre...
    Quote Originally Posted by n240sxle91 View Post
    ...the salesman we talked to didn't want to sell us the Palm Pre. He said he got a lot of returns and had too many problems with it, so he tried to sell us an Android. He also said to check out phonescoop and look at the reviews there. He said we'd see how bad it was after reading about it. So, we went home and read about it. Turns out the Palm Pre gets a 4.2 out of 5. Now, in my book a 4.2 out of 5 is nowhere NEAR a bad phone.....
    Quote Originally Posted by SlvrSRT8 View Post
    My situation was walking in fully knowing I wanted the pre plus ...What came next kinda shocked me he skipped palm and went straight to an env touch and said it could also do internet.
    I was a little surprised we walked right by the palm display.
    So which of the posts in this thread have lead you to the conclusion that the folks are complaining that "they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones"??

    Seriously, I think you've reached a conclusion and are ignoring any information contrary to that conclusion.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Um, no. Read my post. They pushed my friend away from the only phone that could deliver what he told them was his most important factor in buying a smartphone!
    It seems that particular salesperson pushes anybody away from the Palm Pre Plus and toward Droid at all costs for whatever reason.

    Probably does the same for any competitor. Why? Business. He's not going to let honesty stand in the way any moreso than most salespeople.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm curious, which of the complaints on here lead you to beleive that? Because from what I've seen, it's just the opposite. People looking to buy a Palm Pre, and were either almost forced, or simply lied to, to get them to buy something else. Here are the examples (in this thread):

    So which of the posts in this thread have lead you to the conclusion that the folks are complaining that "they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones"??

    Seriously, I think you've reached a conclusion and are ignoring any information contrary to that conclusion.
    I'm not ignoring information to the contrary. When I said "so many of the complaints HERE....", I meant this board. Not this particular thread. I've weighed in similarly on many of other Verizon sales complaint threads (and there have been a lot of them). Much of this thread has just been you and Sputnik bickering.

    I think there is a general tendency here to cheer sales reps who come on talking about how many Pre converts they made and a general hatred toward Verizon pushing the Droid. The latter part never made sense to me because Verizon has a vested interest in that brand over every other phone they carry. Do they really think all or even most low level retail salespeople will patiently and dutifully listen to a customer's needs then weigh them between a Droid, Imagio, Blackberry or Pre Plus? Or will they have a prefab sales routine favoring the Droid, then try to quickly mold the customer's needs around it?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm not ignoring information to the contrary. When I said "so many of the complaints HERE....", I meant this board. Not this particular thread. I've weighed in similarly on many of other Verizon sales complaint threads (and there have been a lot of them). Much of this thread has just been you and Sputnik bickering.
    Again, you are ignoring what you choose to ignore. Much more of this thread have been specific examples of Verizon employees pushing people away from the Pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I think there is a general tendency here to cheer sales reps who come on talking about how many Pre converts they made and a general hatred toward Verizon pushing the Droid. The latter part never made sense to me because Verizon has a vested interest in that brand over every other phone they carry. Do they really think all or even most low level retail salespeople will patiently and dutifully listen to a customer's needs then weigh them between a Droid, Imagio, Blackberry or Pre Plus? Or will they have a prefab sales routine favoring the Droid, then try to quickly mold the customer's needs around it?
    I don't think many "low level retail salespeople will patiently and dutifylly listen to a customer's needs then wight them between a Droid, Imagio, Blackberry, or Pre Plus". However, your implication that "they have a prefab sales routine favoring the Droid, then try to quickly mold the customer's needs around it" seems to fly in the face of your earlier assertion that folks are complaining that "they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones"??

    The complaint isn't that they're not pushing the Pre. The complaint does seem to be that they're "mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones".

    That's my point.

    BTW, I also don't think "low level retail salespeople" push the Droid because it makes business sense for Verizon either. I think they push it because it's what they happen to use, and tech/geek salespeople tend to love what they have, and hate everything else.
  13. #53  
    I forgot to mention I am in no way calling my salesman a dirtbag as thread title states.
    He was actually quite nice and answered the few questions I had. I was just surprised the pre plus was never mentioned.
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  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Again, you are ignoring what you choose to ignore. Much more of this thread have been specific examples of Verizon employees pushing people away from the Pre.
    I'm not only not ignoring it, but I am referencing that in when this pushing is done in favor of the Pre Plus, it is cheered on these forums. When the pushing is done in favor of Droid, it is spat upon. Since the behavior is the same - with the exception of certain examples where reps are either outright lying or woefully misinformed regarding either of the handsets - that (the pushing toward one handset above all others) must not be the problem. The result is the "problem". That is my point.

    I don't think many "low level retail salespeople will patiently and dutifylly listen to a customer's needs then wight them between a Droid, Imagio, Blackberry, or Pre Plus". However, your implication that "they have a prefab sales routine favoring the Droid, then try to quickly mold the customer's needs around it" seems to fly in the face of your earlier assertion that folks are complaining that "they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones"??
    Don't see the conflict here. They obviously have a heavy bias toward Droid, the house brand. Being that the company's very identity is tied to it while the Pre Plus is just some device they agreed to carry, this should come as no surprise. This oddly seems like news to people here, hence thread after thread bemoaning this situation.

    The complaint isn't that they're not pushing the Pre. The complaint does seem to be that they're "mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones".

    That's my point.
    But that's like complaining that sunny days are hot. At one time, the Blackberry Storm was a similar priority, and the same reps pushed it. These same reps will push something else as the smartphone marketplace evolves in the future. Hopefully, HP/Palm will make another device worthy of being pushed the same way AND finds a carrier that knows how to push it and wants to make that their priority. That's my hope anyway. But it's incumbent on the manufacturer to make a Hero device worthy of this sort of push.

    BTW, I also don't think "low level retail salespeople" push the Droid because it makes business sense for Verizon either. I think they push it because it's what they happen to use, and tech/geek salespeople tend to love what they have, and hate everything else.
    But did Verizon just happen to hire a salesforce that would come to love Android or did they set super favorable conditions to reps learning and selling this device because - in many ways - they bet the company on this brand? I think the latter came first.
  15. #55  
    lol Verizon is funny. GO PALM PRE WOOT WOOT!!!!

    Oh and I believe this is true, since it kinda makes sense. If both Verizon and Sprint are CDMA, and Sprint roams off of Verizon at no additional cost (have to have unl. data) then wouldn't that make Sprint's receiption one of the best? Or am I just an ***** that loves swiss rolls
  16. #56  
    "Originally Posted by hparsons
    Sorry, I disagree. Reps tend to sell what they are comfortable with, and reps are generally more comfortable with the phone they use. The lazier the rep, the more likely that is to be true. "

    Mr. parsons maybe I missed this somewhere along this thread after sitting here for about 45 mins following it but sometimes the rep is not the only lazy person here,the customer as well is just as lazy when it comes to electronics.....for example as much as ive followed "precentral" and other sites along with this I have gathered quite a bit of knowledge for what palm has created. It's been said over and over this is a "new operating system" and the Pre is the first hardware to try it on. The knowledge the representatives have is nill unless they read up on forums like these else they fall back to word of mouth or what they see go in and out of the stores. Some reps look at this as part of there job that pays them so much and hour and move on . Some really love what they do and will research what they have there hands on or what they use themselves so in turn is fed back to the customer with there experience or knowledge second hand.
    Back to the example.... I tend to hobby on building PC's for co workers and such. in the majority of the PC builds ive done ... the customer is too lazy to go into detail of what they want in there system.......They just want the latest and greatest even though they haven't a clue what it does! This is where I see the "Lazy Customer" theory come alive. Not everyone has the patience or knowledge to understand what they want when it comes to a "mobile smarthphone". they see the flashiness of the "Droid" and they jump hoops to get one just because it's "whats happening" . Palm Failed to market the supreme OS that the Pre has but I see why they have done this. The Company focused on Proving the system before the hardware was ready(hence the updates that come continously). Also timing of pushing the hardware to become available to when the competiton was making there available products I think was key(the iphone3Gs).So as to the Customer... they see it ... they want it ...and some are too impatient or even lazy and just will get whats there.I know this isnt the case with everyone before everyone starts to jump and say "Bite me" so calm down
    Dont forget ...the customer(consumer) sometimes and I'd say a good percent of the time just wants something and fast.....and forget about how superior an Operating System is and how it can manage their life so becomes lazy and gets what is flashing with big lights and signs at them and purchase it
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm not only not ignoring it, but I am referencing that in when this pushing is done in favor of the Pre Plus, it is cheered on these forums. When the pushing is done in favor of Droid, it is spat upon. Since the behavior is the same - with the exception of certain examples where reps are either outright lying or woefully misinformed regarding either of the handsets - that (the pushing toward one handset above all others) must not be the problem. The result is the "problem". That is my point.
    Except I don't see anyone complaining that the Droid is being "pushed", except when the salesperson is lying. That's my point. I haven't read every thread about Verizon, but you've not provided examples of what you're talking about. I've certainly not seen it in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Don't see the conflict here. They obviously have a heavy bias toward Droid, the house brand. Being that the company's very identity is tied to it while the Pre Plus is just some device they agreed to carry, this should come as no surprise. This oddly seems like news to people here, hence thread after thread bemoaning this situation.
    Again, what I'm seeing in this thread has nothing to do with people "bemoaning" the situation you're describing. It does have to with the Verizon salepeople (in the examples mentioned, including the OP) talking about salespeople "refusing" to sell the Pre, or out and out lying about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But that's like complaining that sunny days are hot. At one time, the Blackberry Storm was a similar priority, and the same reps pushed it. These same reps will push something else as the smartphone marketplace evolves in the future.
    You missed my point. I'm not complaining that the sun his hot. I am disputing this:
    So much of the complaints here boil down to "I'm not mad at Verizon 'dirtbags' for pushing the Droid to the exclusion of all other phones. I'm mad because they're not pushing the Pre Plus to the exclusion of Droid and all other phones."
    You've clarified the "here" part, but I haven't seen that theme on this forum in general. Maybe you have some examples?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But did Verizon just happen to hire a salesforce that would come to love Android or did they set super favorable conditions to reps learning and selling this device because - in many ways - they bet the company on this brand? I think the latter came first.
    Nope, I don't agree with that at all. My experience with tech salespeople has been pretty consistent. The young ones tend to push what they like to the exclusion of everything else. The more experienced ones, those that make a living at it long term, tend to sell people what they want, and only "push" when asked to, or when there are significant money motivators to do so.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by T4H_KiserSose View Post
    "Originally Posted by hparsons
    Sorry, I disagree. Reps tend to sell what they are comfortable with, and reps are generally more comfortable with the phone they use. The lazier the rep, the more likely that is to be true. "

    Mr. parsons maybe I missed this somewhere along this thread after sitting here for about 45 mins following it but sometimes the rep is not the only lazy person here,the customer as well is just as lazy when it comes to electronics...
    Not much in your post that I would disagree with. We want an expensive, powerful phone. We want it cheap. We want the contract to do a lot. We want that cheap as well. The carriers have to cut somewhere to cover their costs, and I'd say the place they cut the most is in salaries (and expectations) for the salespeople.

    Nothing wrong with that, from either side. That means that I, as the consumer, have to know what I'm looking for when I walk in. If I don't, then I'm going to get stuck with what the underpaid, overworked salesperson convinces me to get.

    On the other hand though, there is no justification for the rude, insluting, and dishonest behavior that is exemplified in the anectdotal stories we're seeing here.
  19. #59  
    I couldnt agree more on that last sentence.I think from now on next time I educate and promote someone on the pre I will ask them to give me feedback on how it went with purchasing (or discouraged from purchasing the pre) the device I suggest and follow up with that particular store on how they did.After all the current sprint plan has me well covered for minutes usage hehe
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Except I don't see anyone complaining that the Droid is being "pushed", except when the salesperson is lying. That's my point. I haven't read every thread about Verizon, but you've not provided examples of what you're talking about. I've certainly not seen it in this thread.
    Uh, in the very first post in this thread there is NO accusation of lying, but there is frustration at a salesperson steering people away from the Pre. That one's kinda hard to miss, no?

    Again, what I'm seeing in this thread has nothing to do with people "bemoaning" the situation you're describing. It does have to with the Verizon salepeople (in the examples mentioned, including the OP) talking about salespeople "refusing" to sell the Pre, or out and out lying about it.
    Yeah, "refusing" should be put in quotes because I seriously doubt these reps would not sell the Pre if it was in stock and the customer insisted. Clearly, they weren't insistent enough to blow by a salesperson with a clear bias, and they left. But this is nothing new and hardly unique to Verizon. I tried to buy a Peavey Vypyr amp to practice on at Sam Ash recently, and the salespeople also trashed it and complained about how junky it was. I knew what I wanted, was persistent, and walked out with one. I've had car salespeople do the same. I've had HDTV salespeople do the same. It's the nature of the game. But my OPINION is that people here are only really peeved about it because it's slighting their fave, when in actuality, it's slighting everything that's not a Droid. Very few people look at it that way, because if they did, they'd realize that it's just business. Verizon reps didn't "suddenly" develop a vendetta against every phone outside the Droid brand en masse.

    Nope, I don't agree with that at all. My experience with tech salespeople has been pretty consistent. The young ones tend to push what they like to the exclusion of everything else. The more experienced ones, those that make a living at it long term, tend to sell people what they want, and only "push" when asked to, or when there are significant money motivators to do so.
    Eh, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Anyway...good afternoon discussion.
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