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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yep, that way they can be like the other error-free phones that have never had hardware issues like ... mmm ... ...
    As I wrote that post, I tried to turn on the screen. Nothing. A few seconds later, Palm boot screen. For no reason at all. Phone came back on, new voice mail. No missed call alert or anything. So bite me. I have about a year left on my contract, at which point I will forget WebOS ever existed and Office Space this phone. I am sorry but the god-awful Motorola Q with Windows Mobile 5 that I had before, was more reliable than this phone.
    Last edited by sputnik767; 05/10/2010 at 02:18 PM.
  2. #22  
    If I had not known about the very real issues with this phone before buying it (Thanks PreCentral!) I would have returned it within a week. I have the phone for WebOS, not because it is a superior piece of equipment. I cannot blame sales reps for not pushing the Pre or Pre+ but bashing a product should never be done and shows poor sales ability IMO.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    As I wrote that post, I tried to turn on the screen. Nothing. A few seconds later, Palm boot screen. For no reason at all. Phone came back on, new voice mail. No missed call alert or anything. So bite me. I have about a year left on my contract, at which point I will forget WebOS ever existed and Office Space this phone. I am sorry but the god-awful Motorola Q with Windows Mobile 5 that I had before, was more reliable than this phone.
    So bite me??? Really? Wow, you have a phone that's having problems, and because of that, you solicit strangers on the internet to bite you?

    Why? What does one have to do with the other. Were it me, I'd return the phone for one that doesn't reset, and give up on the biting issue, but that's just me.

    You do what works for you, but I'll pass on your request.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Annnd I disagree with that. Excessive returns aren't necessarily about losing the sale, but tying directly into customer satisfaction. Why would a rep want to sell a device that even people who like - even LOVE - it sometimes have to get 3+ returns to get a fully functional one? I've seen plenty of them on this board alone.

    Now that's an anecdotal situation, so this wouldn't apply to every rep that sells a pre or Pixi. But it's certainly true for some, and I cannot blame them for pushing people away from it IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
    No disagreement on that at all, if the issue really is hardware issues. Where I was disagreeing was the statement that "if stores see a high percentage of returns, then yes, the sales people lose money". That's a straw man. Return of a device doesn't cost the salesman anything, unless they customer drops the plan completey. You've switched your argument from "the sales poeple lose money" to "returns aren't necessarily about losing the sale", that was the portion I was disagreeing with.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    As I wrote that post, I tried to turn on the screen. Nothing. A few seconds later, Palm boot screen. For no reason at all. Phone came back on, new voice mail. No missed call alert or anything. So bite me. I have about a year left on my contract, at which point I will forget WebOS ever existed and Office Space this phone. I am sorry but the god-awful Motorola Q with Windows Mobile 5 that I had before, was more reliable than this phone.
    Seriously? You returned your phone because it did that once? Mine has done that, but only after running custom kernals. Stock kernal does not dot hat.

    And just so you understand, you will not get a missed call alert unless the phone was fully booted when the call came in. The network doesn't keep track of missed calls, the phone does.
  6. #26  
    If every pre or even a small majority of pres sold were returned the game would already be over. If one person in ten are unhappy there is a good chance you'll only hear from the unhappy one.
    Regarding sales people, if someone walks into a store and asks to see a pre and the salesman says "I'm not going to sell you one because it is junk" the salesman should be fired. I've had too many salesmen try to push me and tell me why I don't want something I already know I do want. Don't stand for it!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No disagreement on that at all, if the issue really is hardware issues. Where I was disagreeing was the statement that "if stores see a high percentage of returns, then yes, the sales people lose money". That's a straw man. Return of a device doesn't cost the salesman anything, unless they customer drops the plan completey. You've switched your argument from "the sales poeple lose money" to "returns aren't necessarily about losing the sale", that was the portion I was disagreeing with.
    Actually, I apologize. I was agreeing with someone else who made the point about "salespeople losing money", and in the context you cite above, I agree with you.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Seriously? You returned your phone because it did that once? Mine has done that, but only after running custom kernals. Stock kernal does not dot hat.

    And just so you understand, you will not get a missed call alert unless the phone was fully booted when the call came in. The network doesn't keep track of missed calls, the phone does.
    One, I didn't return my phone. Still on my original one. This issue has nothing to do with bad hardware and everything to do with poorly written and buggy software.

    Two, this is far from the first time I've experienced random reset from turning on my phone, and far from the first time that my phone missed a call. Usually this is what results in a random reset to begin with, as happened in this case. It's almost like some background services stop running, which results in missed calls and texts, and eventually results in a reset. I checked my voicemail time, the call came long before my phone reset.

    Three, I have not had any of these issues before WebOS version 1.4. I have tried doctoring to remove any custom kernels or patches, and these issues happen with no patches or custom kernels installed.

    I would swap my phone, but I firmly believe that this is a software issue, considering how many people have the same problems as me, and therefore, getting someone's scratched-up refurb is not going to solve anything.

    My phone has multitudes of other issues that I'm not going to list here. Point is, there is a very good reason why Palm was just bought out. Releasing an unfinished phone and still having serious problems a year later, is not a good way to attract customers. I'm not surprised that Verizon salespeople are not recommending it. I personally could not recommend this phone to anybody.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So bite me??? Really? Wow, you have a phone that's having problems, and because of that, you solicit strangers on the internet to bite you?

    Why? What does one have to do with the other. Were it me, I'd return the phone for one that doesn't reset, and give up on the biting issue, but that's just me.

    You do what works for you, but I'll pass on your request.
    Do you always take everything literally? Bite me is a common expression indicating my displeasure and disagreement with your original post. It was not a solicitation of any kind, and let's not pretend that you didn't know that.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Do you always take everything literally? Bite me is a common expression indicating my displeasure and disagreement with your original post. It was not a solicitation of any kind, and let's not pretend that you didn't know that.
    Of course I understood what you meant. I figured you'd gather the hint when you acted foolishly and I returned the favor. Guess you're not quite as sharp as I thought.

    Your personal experiences with the phone notwithstanding, my point was that many phones have hardware issues, and software issues. The Pre isn't unique in that respect. Let's not pretend you didn't know that.

    That said, exactly what in my post did you disagree with? It was really pretty short and simple, and I don't think there was much to bring you displeasure...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    ...
    Two, this is far from the first time I've experienced random reset from turning on my phone, and far from the first time that my phone missed a call. Usually this is what results in a random reset to begin with, as happened in this case. It's almost like some background services stop running, which results in missed calls and texts, and eventually results in a reset. I checked my voicemail time, the call came long before my phone reset.

    Three, I have not had any of these issues before WebOS version 1.4. I have tried doctoring to remove any custom kernels or patches, and these issues happen with no patches or custom kernels installed.

    I would swap my phone, but I firmly believe that this is a software issue, considering how many people have the same problems as me, and therefore, getting someone's scratched-up refurb is not going to solve anything.

    My phone has multitudes of other issues that I'm not going to list here. Point is, there is a very good reason why Palm was just bought out. Releasing an unfinished phone and still having serious problems a year later, is not a good way to attract customers. I'm not surprised that Verizon salespeople are not recommending it. I personally could not recommend this phone to anybody.
    Sadly -- and even though I do my best to be a WebOS supporter -- I have many of these same problems. I've doctored my phone and left it stock for a week. I've patched the ever-lovin' crap out of it. Same level of reliability either way and it makes me nuts! (Hmmm...maybe I should swap hardware. It sure *feels* like a software problem but that's the one thing I haven't tried yet.)

    Don't get me wrong. In the love/hate relationship I have with my Pre it's is mostly puppy-eyed love. When the phone isn't rebooting the functions kick ***. My uber-geek coworker with his brand new Nexus One on AT&T drools over the Pre's Outlook Global Address Book lookup and contact integration. It's an OS with fantastic potential as well as current leading-edge functionality.

    ...when it isn't rebooting...

    So as much as I love it I find that I would have a hard time recommending it. Hopefully that will change with future updates. Or a new Pre.

    A bit off topic, I know. But if my experience is typical then I can understand reps not being enthusiastic about pushing the product.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    4th replacement? if the phone is a truly superior like you said, it shouldn't have this much issue with the quality.
    The OS is superior. Leaps and bounds superior. So far ahead it's not even IN THE SAME CLASS superior.


    The hardware? Not so much.

    Although I STILL have my "launch" Pre. (Bought 1 week after launch on Sprint.) It's still in great shape, despite dropping 5 feet onto a concrete floor within 2 months of ownership.

    Personally, I think the "bad hardware" is really more of a "user abuse" issue than anything else. People treat their smartphones like they are titanium-coated dumbphones. Why is it such a surprise when they break?
  13. #33  
    The only Verizon store in my area is a small kiosk. The salesperson didn't know much. I ended up buying my wife's Palm Pre Plus from Verizon's website.
  14. n240sxle91's Avatar
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    #34  
    I just wanted to add my experience with Verizon and the Palm Pre Plus. I'm currently on AT&T, but my fiancÚ is on Verizon. It was time for her to get a new phone, and she wanted a Smartphone. After doing a lot of research and looking at Android and Windows Mobile phones (I currently use WM), we decided that the Palm was probably her best bet.

    So, we walk into the Verizon store all ready to buy the Palm Pre. Just like others here, the salesman we talked to didn't want to sell us the Palm Pre. He said he got a lot of returns and had too many problems with it, so he tried to sell us an Android. He also said to check out phonescoop and look at the reviews there. He said we'd see how bad it was after reading about it. So, we went home and read about it. Turns out the Palm Pre gets a 4.2 out of 5. Now, in my book a 4.2 out of 5 is nowhere NEAR a bad phone.

    I could be wrong, but I think there is something else going on here. I could understand some stores having salespeople who don't like the Palm Pre. However, having this many salespeople basically saying verbatim how the phone sucks seems odd to me. Could it be that Verizon salespeople don't get as much commission for the Palm Pre as they do for the expensive Android phones?

    One last thing... the store tried telling us the phone was $49.99, and she'd have to pay a $25 upgrade fee. We ended up ordering online for $29.99, free shipping, and no upgrade fee.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Of course I understood what you meant. I figured you'd gather the hint when you acted foolishly and I returned the favor. Guess you're not quite as sharp as I thought.

    Your personal experiences with the phone notwithstanding, my point was that many phones have hardware issues, and software issues. The Pre isn't unique in that respect. Let's not pretend you didn't know that.

    That said, exactly what in my post did you disagree with? It was really pretty short and simple, and I don't think there was much to bring you displeasure...
    Let's not get into my level of intellect in this thread. Feel free to make another thread about that if you want to debate it. I have a pretty good feeling I'll hold my own against you. Your post implied that all phones have issues. That's partially true, but is a pretty pathetic excuse for defending a phone that has such serious issues, that it is barely capable of functioning as a phone. Considering that it is my only means of always-on communication, I expect it to at the very least be a reliable phone. Your original post served no purpose other than to try to make me look stupid, which is why I replied in the way that I did.
  16. #36  
    I went to my local Verizon store to look at the Pre Plus. All they had out was the dummy phone. When I asked the sales rep (who turned out to be the manager), he whipped out his Pre and gave me a great demo. Showed me what he liked better than the Android phones. Another of the reps chimed in that his boss got the Pre and he got a droid and was very jealous.

    I was pleasantly surprised. Last time I went into a Verizon store, I got a blank stare and "what is a webos?" Now, I have to wonder will it be the same thing at AT&T. They'll be selling me an iPhone over my dead body.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by jchabuc View Post
    Sadly -- and even though I do my best to be a WebOS supporter -- I have many of these same problems. I've doctored my phone and left it stock for a week. I've patched the ever-lovin' crap out of it. Same level of reliability either way and it makes me nuts! (Hmmm...maybe I should swap hardware. It sure *feels* like a software problem but that's the one thing I haven't tried yet.)

    Don't get me wrong. In the love/hate relationship I have with my Pre it's is mostly puppy-eyed love. When the phone isn't rebooting the functions kick ***. My uber-geek coworker with his brand new Nexus One on AT&T drools over the Pre's Outlook Global Address Book lookup and contact integration. It's an OS with fantastic potential as well as current leading-edge functionality.

    ...when it isn't rebooting...

    So as much as I love it I find that I would have a hard time recommending it. Hopefully that will change with future updates. Or a new Pre.

    A bit off topic, I know. But if my experience is typical then I can understand reps not being enthusiastic about pushing the product.
    Have you contacted Palm about the issue? There are checks they can do to try to solve the issue.

    Here's the problem with something like this - you (and at least one other user) are having this issue. However, I dont', and I suspect most other folks don't (or you'd hear a lot more complaining about resets than what you do). It's very difficult to nail down the exact causes of a sporadic problem that a limited number of users are having.

    Don't get me wrong, there's nothing at all wrong with saying "I don't have this problem with XYZ device, so I'm going to get rid of the Pre and use that", as long as you're satisfied with the XYZ device.

    However, if you'd prefer to use the Pre, you really only have three options.
    1. Wait and hope they fix it.
    2. Live with it.
    3. Call Palm and see if they can help you, or note it so they can fix it.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
    Let's not get into my level of intellect in this thread. Feel free to make another thread about that if you want to debate it. I have a pretty good feeling I'll hold my own against you. Your post implied that all phones have issues. That's partially true, but is a pretty pathetic excuse for defending a phone that has such serious issues, that it is barely capable of functioning as a phone. Considering that it is my only means of always-on communication, I expect it to at the very least be a reliable phone. Your original post served no purpose other than to try to make me look stupid, which is why I replied in the way that I did.
    Ahhh, now I understand. Sorry, you misunderstood my post. It was not meant to imply that all other phones have issues. It was meant to imply that many phones have issues. Nor was it meant to try to make you look stupid. I wouldn't think of trying to help you with that.

    No phone is "error-free". However, you seem to be having a problem. Fortunately (for me), I don't have that problem. If I did, I would report it to my carrier, then to Palm. If they couldn't work it out. I would return the phone.

    However, this would not cost the sales rep a dime in commission, unless I cancelled my plan.

    I stand by what I've said before. Those that are claiming Verizon reps are pushing against the Pre in order to "save their commission" are presenting a straw man. You did as well. I don't doubt you're frustrated, but inviting others to "bite you" because you don't like what they say isn't going to make your phone suddenly work.
  19. #39  
    In an effort to diffuse feelings of frustration between folks misunderstanding each other on this thread, I just wanted to point out the purpose of MY posts are typically to make ME look stupid, without help from anyone else...just so you know

    I guess I just don't want to put anybody out, so I take care of my image projection all by myself!

    And speaking of projection, how about a pico projector on the next webOS device? (assuming we can get some sort of Powerpoint viewer from somebody...) Sorry, I digress (my intent), but have a nicer day everybody!
  20. #40  
    My situation was walking in fully knowing I wanted the pre plus but letting the salesman make a few reccommendations. I was shown the Moto Droid first which is not for me. Then the Droid Eris which not for me. Then I was told to wait for the Droid Incredible which is not for me. After his Android rant and seeing I was not interested we started looking at Blackberries which is what I am used to from previous phones but again was not interested. What came next kinda shocked me he skipped palm and went straight to an env touch and said it could also do internet.
    I was a little surprised we walked right by the palm display.
    Apple.........The New Skynet
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