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  1.    #1  
    As I walked into work this morning I had Google maps and GPS Dashboard open. Neither one found me after letting them both run for about 7 minutes. I left them both open and opened VZ Navigator. I switched back to GPS Dashboard and it found me within a couple of seconds. Switched to Google Maps and got the same result. Interestingly, neither one updated my location after initially finding me. So, I went back to VZ Navigator, closed it and re-opened it. Upon switching to GPS Dashboard and then Google Maps, both found me within a couple of seconds, but again, neither one updated my location after initially finding me. So, I went to VZ Navigator closed it and opened it a 3rd time. Again, GPS Dashboard and Google Maps both found me within a couple of seconds, but failed to update my location after initially finding me. I repeated this same series of steps, all with the same results. Clearly, there is something with VZ here folks. This is no conspiracy theory, just common sense. How else can you explain the above circumstances? This was after nearly 4 days of my GPS being unable to find me. I used all the other tricks mentioned here in the forum. I had auto locate turned off and only GPS turned on.

    I don't deny that there are a few folks out there on VZ who have good GPS on the Pre Plus, but the vast, overwhelming majority do not.

    This has settled the question in my mind and given me 100% confirmation that VZ is screwing with GPS somehow...intentional or otherwise.
  2. LNWJ's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'm not a VZ customer, but from reading everyone's findings on the matter I do believe they ARE blocking GPS. They want your money and will nickel and dime you for anything they can. That's why I'm a loyal Sprint customer (for 10 years).
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by LateNiteWithJme View Post
    I'm not a VZ customer, but from reading everyone's findings on the matter I do believe they ARE blocking GPS. They want your money and will nickel and dime you for anything they can. That's why I'm a loyal Sprint customer (for 10 years).
    Wish I was still with Sprint I was with them for about the same length of time with no complaints. Last fall, I moved into an area with poor coverage . I hoped that a new phone might overcome that, so I actually purchased a Pre for about 5 hours, but returned it to Best Buy later that same day b/c still no reception. Alas, I switched to Verizon. At the time I thought it was a good move b/c Verizon is consistently ranked highest in customer satisfaction. As of right now, they get an F from me b/c of their devious tactics in blocking GPS. I will be off Verizon asap.
  4. ght
    ght is offline
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    #4  
    There are 3 or 4 threads currently open regarding some true troubleshooting on this subject. The "Verizon is crippling GPS" conspiracy theory is a dead horse. We've all heard it, and if it is true there isn't much that can be done about it. However, I would encourage you to check the other open threads and participate in some active troubleshooting. Some of the observations are enlightening, and may lead to an eventual solution.

    I can tell you last night, my GPS was working perfectly with every GPS-enabled program on my phone, and I never touched VZnavigator. (I have, however, noticed the exact behavior you describe in the past.)

    My current best guess is that there is a cache of GPS information stored somewhere on the phone that only a reboot or starting VZnavigator will clear and allow new GPS info to be available.
  5. #5  
    Why don't you just delete VZ Navigator? Then just use Google Maps?
  6. #6  
    I can't say much (nda) but palm has basically said, that some "service providers" will restrict gps use.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezrabrooks51 View Post
    Why don't you just delete VZ Navigator? Then just use Google Maps?
    He hasn't paid for the GPS service.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post
    I can't say much (nda) but palm has basically said, that some "service providers" will restrict gps use.
    Thanks, but unless you can actually back it up - you are really just stirring up the conspiracy theorists.

    Anyone can make a claim like that and say they are under NDA. I'm not saying you aren't, I'm just saying that it creates worry when you say things like that without verifiable info.

    Also, notice the posts from IHC above. Good progress in identifying bugs, not consistent with "crippling". I've talked to many at Palm and VZ escalation that don't agree with your statement.

    IMHO.
  9. nsanders's Avatar
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    #9  
    REPORT IT!

    I have called VZ tech support and filed a report regarding the GPS issue. They have told me that the more people that report the problem, the more likely that it will get fixed.

    I have spent a lot time on the phone with VZ tech support over the last few weeks. And, one of the techs actually told me that she had a similar problem with her BB. After "enough" people complained, they finally made the GPS accessible without having to use VZ Nav.

    Most of us have realized that there is a problem, but it will never get fixed unless people complain (i.e. file a report with tech support).
    Nicky
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reign25 View Post
    He hasn't paid for the GPS service.
    GPS is supposed to be a free feature of the phone.
  11. #11  
    Longtime VZ customer. Emailed them and threatened to cancel account. They called me and said their Tech confirmed that this is about $$ - they want Navigator subs and have no plans to change this. She gave me 30 day trial - I told her I'll be gone in 31 days if not fixed.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mgbrucex View Post
    Longtime VZ customer. Emailed them and threatened to cancel account. They called me and said their Tech confirmed that this is about $$ - they want Navigator subs and have no plans to change this. She gave me 30 day trial - I told her I'll be gone in 31 days if not fixed.
    Could you post this email and their reply here? (including names of VZ Employees)
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    Could you post this email and their reply here? (including names of VZ Employees)
    Yes, please.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Thanks, but unless you can actually back it up - you are really just stirring up the conspiracy theorists.

    Anyone can make a claim like that and say they are under NDA. I'm not saying you aren't, I'm just saying that it creates worry when you say things like that without verifiable info.

    Also, notice the posts from IHC above. Good progress in identifying bugs, not consistent with "crippling". I've talked to many at Palm and VZ escalation that don't agree with your statement.

    IMHO.
    read this http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1673&Itemid=20
  15. tekkshaman's Avatar
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    #15  
    Also a longtime Verizon Wireless customer. Quick summary:

    GPS not working on mine or wife's Pre Plus.

    - called VZ support, he couldn't fix, he called Palm directly
    - GPS chipset tested with Palm tech - confirmed working - but slow
    - 2nd level Palm tech - asserted that unless I have VZ Nav subscription I am out of luck - it is a VZ issue they have no solution for and I will not have GPS level accuracy without it. I might get intermittent, but not continuous locks without.
    - Called back verizon and explained - gave case information - and was told I have 3 options:

    1. Switch to another phone (I don't want this - I want this one to work as promised.)
    2. Cancel contract with no penalties.
    3. Get VZ Nav and get a credit for one month, and call every month to get a credit for it. Joy.

    What great options. I have been happy with Verizon coverage - if it wasn't so good I'd leave now. Also most of my close relatives have it. It just works well. I talked to 2nd level support with both companies and also with a VZ supervisor. It boils down to this: they admitted issues and an apparent "lockout" and even asserted that the company has plans to lock GPS out on other phones going forward. Though the tech happened to mention to me "my droid works fine". Honestly I wish we could somehow apply some pressure to get a solution. I think the Verizon people wanted to help - but they said they had no way to automatically compensate me monthly to offset the VZ Nav subscription, assuming this would even really solve the issue. Both Palm and Verizon said it would. I guess I have some thinking to do. I will most likely just live with it - which annoys me in some small fashion.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mgbrucex View Post
    Longtime VZ customer. Emailed them and threatened to cancel account. They called me and said their Tech confirmed that this is about $$ - they want Navigator subs and have no plans to change this. She gave me 30 day trial - I told her I'll be gone in 31 days if not fixed.
    Could you post this email and their reply here? (including names of VZ Employees)
    Might be a bit difficult to post a reply that was in the form of a phone call.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post

    OK, this makes complete sense now. If a carrier such as VZW restricts access to aGPS (from cell towers, not satellites) then it can take a very long time to acquire a true GPS signal and location (from satellites, not cell towers).

    So it seems that VZW will enable aGPS if you purchase VZ Navigator, otherwise you are at the mercy of the satellites.

    For a good description of aGPS see this article: Assisted GPS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Basically what it means is that when aGPS is used your location can be gotten very quickly from cell towers and can provide data to the device to help in getting a true GPS location from the satellites. Without aGPS, your device has to rely soley on receiving information from the satellites. This article states it needs an uninterrupted flow of data from satellites for 40 seconds to determine a location. With aGPS and the data provide by the carrier a lock can be established much more quickly because the device can operate only receiving a fraction of that data from the satellites.

    Also, according to the FCC 911 Mandate, carriers must utilize aGPS to achieve this. So, the meaning might be clear -- call 911 and tell them you need an aGPS lock, thank them and hangup, then open your GPS application (please do not try this...).
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikey47 View Post
    .

    Also, according to the fcc 911 mandate, carriers must utilize agps to achieve this. So, the meaning might be clear -- call 911 and tell them you need an agps lock, thank them and hangup, then open your gps application :d:d:d (please do not try this...).
    bwahahahahahaha
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    OK, this makes complete sense now. If a carrier such as VZW restricts access to aGPS (from cell towers, not satellites) then it can take a very long time to acquire a true GPS signal and location (from satellites, not cell towers).

    So it seems that VZW will enable aGPS if you purchase VZ Navigator, otherwise you are at the mercy of the satellites.

    For a good description of aGPS see this article: Assisted GPS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Basically what it means is that when aGPS is used your location can be gotten very quickly from cell towers and can provide data to the device to help in getting a true GPS location from the satellites. Without aGPS, your device has to rely soley on receiving information from the satellites. This article states it needs an uninterrupted flow of data from satellites for 40 seconds to determine a location. With aGPS and the data provide by the carrier a lock can be established much more quickly because the device can operate only receiving a fraction of that data from the satellites.

    Also, according to the FCC 911 Mandate, carriers must utilize aGPS to achieve this. So, the meaning might be clear -- call 911 and tell them you need an aGPS lock, thank them and hangup, then open your GPS application (please do not try this...).
    Interesting thought, however I don't think this is the case, because if I disable GPS and only enable "Google Services" (google services is aGPS), it always work and quickly (but accuracy is way off). With GPS only enabled, it takes forever, if that. I usually do not get a lock unless VZ Nav is open.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpionSoul View Post
    Might be a bit difficult to post a reply that was in the form of a phone call.
    doh! I saw the email part and missed the call part... good catch!
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