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  1. #41  
    I did a little more testing with the gps vz nav goggle and google services.

    with fresh boot with google services off it takes google and other 3rd party apps about 2+ mins to grab a spot on lock. While it takes vz nav about 30secs or less to get a lock.

    When I turn on google services I get a lock faster but it's off about a mile. And is never accurate until vz nav is booted up.
  2. #42  
    again....i had vz navigator fail to wake the gps. I took a 3rd party app to get it going. But then all gps apps were spot on.
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    #43  
    Not sure if VZW is blocking the GPS on the Pre Plus... here's my recent experience:

    I live in NYC (with many tall buildings). GPS never worked, and I never cared to figure out why. This past weekend I went to LA, and lo-and-behold, GPS in Google Maps worked flawlessly. It pinpointed my location within 20 seconds, and we were zipping through the mean streets of LA and freeways using my Google Maps. Now that I'm back in NYC, I cannot obtain a pin point in Google Maps.

    I don't pay for VZ Nav, never opened the app, nor use any patches.

    So my guess is, at least for my Pre Plus is that the GPS is weak and requires a really open area to get a signal. Tall buildings and trees will make it difficult for my Pre Plus to obtain and hold a signal.
    2G iPhone -> BB 8530 -> Pre Plus
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-usp45 View Post
    May be you have exceptionally good phone. By the way on my Pre+ Verizon Nav finds me when the phone is not on the dashboard, but on the holster on my belt. Settings are GPS only (no google location services). But if I try Google Maps alone- I can wait 5 min and get no GPS signals found...
    that's my point. Did my phone escape the vz anti-gps police at the factory? Will they realize that their plot had a flaw and show up at my house to break my phone?

    I'm not saying it's ok that things aren't working to your expectations. The phone should work. But lets get off the con.spiracy theory, please.
  5. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    that's my point. Did my phone escape the vz anti-gps police at the factory? Will they realize that their plot had a flaw and show up at my house to break my phone?

    I'm not saying it's ok that things aren't working to your expectations. The phone should work. But lets get off the con.spiracy theory, please.
    yes, apparently, your phones did escape it.

    http://www.precentral.net/3rd-party-...-pre-pixi-plus
  6. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonie luv View Post
    yes, apparently, your phones did escape it.

    http://www.precentral.net/3rd-party-...-pre-pixi-plus
    REALLY? The? shot each unit on the assembly line with a laser, and just missed a few? Tell me how that makes sense in the real world of manufacturing hi tech devices in a chinese factory.

    Or, it's more complex and relates to google location services, where aGPS is deployed (some towers have it, some don't), etc etc.

    All that article says is that aGPS from VZ towers might be restricted. I have mine set to GPS only so I am testing satellite locating services, and isolating that from any location-based interaction with cell towers. That means I am not using the service they are referring to.

    And it explain why Google Maps on my at&t blackberry curve doesn't work any differently/better than my Pre+.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/06/2010 at 12:12 PM.
  7.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    REALLY? The? shot each unit on the assembly line with a laser, and just missed a few? Tell me how that makes sense in the real world of manufacturing hi tech devices in a chinese factory.

    Or, it's more complex and relates to google location services, where aGPS is deployed (some towers have it, some don't), etc etc.

    All that article says is that aGPS from VZ towers might be restricted. I have mine set to GPS only so I am testing satellite locating services, and isolating that from any location-based interaction with cell towers. That means I am not using the service they are referring to.

    And it explain why Google Maps on my at&t blackberry curve doesn't work any differently/better than my Pre+.
    Attribute it to whatever you want, but only 10% of people in this poll get a reliable GPS fix. It clearly works for a very select few. For 90% of VZ Pre Plus users, GPS is a bust. I know you don't care about the other 90% because yours works...if mine worked, I wouldn't care either. But don't dismiss the claims of 90% of users simply because yours does work.

    http://www.precentral.net/verizon-pr...gps-after-1411
  8. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by LateNiteWithJme View Post
    I'm not a VZ customer, but from reading everyone's findings on the matter I do believe they ARE blocking GPS. They want your money and will nickel and dime you for anything they can. That's why I'm a loyal Sprint customer (for 10 years).
    This is why I am a loyal sptint user too. I got tired of the nickel and diming VZW and cingular were doing and went to sprint and never looked back. I have never been this satisfied with a carrier as I have with sprint and their phone selection may not be as trendy as some other carriers, but its great for me.
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  9. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    REALLY? The? shot each unit on the assembly line with a laser, and just missed a few? Tell me how that makes sense in the real world of manufacturing hi tech devices in a chinese factory.

    Or, it's more complex and relates to google location services, where aGPS is deployed (some towers have it, some don't), etc etc.

    All that article says is that aGPS from VZ towers might be restricted. I have mine set to GPS only so I am testing satellite locating services, and isolating that from any location-based interaction with cell towers. That means I am not using the service they are referring to.

    And it explain why Google Maps on my at&t blackberry curve doesn't work any differently/better than my Pre+.
    relax guy. you come into every thread proclaiming how the gps on your phone works. no one cares because no one elses does. and do you know why? because verizon is restricting it, something you have been fighting tooth and nail against in every damn thread.

    can i get you some crow?
  10. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonie luv View Post
    relax guy. you come into every thread proclaiming how the gps on your phone works. no one cares because no one elses does. and do you know why? because verizon is restricting it, something you have been fighting tooth and nail against in every damn thread.


    can i get you some crow?
    Clearly you haven't read my posts. Not having access to aGPS may or may not make a difference. I understand that some on every carrier (even sprint) seem to have issues. The point is to come up with a reason that actually makes sense. If mine works and yours doesn't, then you have to explain that. I think it relates more to where I live and travel. If that turns out to be true, it will be easier to work around it or hold someone accountable to fix it.

    If the explanation is that my handset (and others who report it working) escaped from the factory, then you aren't thinking rationally. It also doesn't line up with recent side-by-side I did between my at&t BB Curve and my Pre+. Neither was good enough to give up my Garmin, but they both locked and tracked with about the same speed and accuracy. Good enough to figure out what part of town I was in, and eventually track me down the highway.

    If this was a Verizon conspiracy, you wouldn't hear the Sprint and Bell users saying they have problems, and you would see a huge difference in Google Maps on other carriers (besides the obvious difference on the MotoDroid).

    There are several serious threads here where people are trying to figure out how this stuff works so this can be explained by something other than a conspiracy theory. That's the only way we can identify the offending vendor and hold them accountable.

    The conspiracy stuff is just exhausting. And the post I replied to said that today's article "proved" the conspiracy theory. It did no such thing. Unless you can create repeatable and verifiable behavior. The questions I raise simply point out the cases that don't work for the theory that it's just verizon trying to chase away customers and motivate people to return phones...

    I'm very relaxed.
  11. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Attribute it to whatever you want, but only 10% of people in this poll get a reliable GPS fix. It clearly works for a very select few. For 90% of VZ Pre Plus users, GPS is a bust. I know you don't care about the other 90% because yours works...if mine worked, I wouldn't care either. But don't dismiss the claims of 90% of users simply because yours does work.

    http://www.precentral.net/verizon-pr...gps-after-1411
    Actually, I care enough that I am interested in getting to the bottom of the issue. I experienced it briefly the other day. I am watching work in other (whining-free) threads where people are doing actual work to understand what is going on, how to work around it, and how to fix it.

    You will recall that I use a dedicated GPS anyway. But my loyalty to Palm is such that I want every Pre/Pixi owner to be happy and convincing their friends to convert to WebOS. The sudden lemming-like appeal may be creating a crisis where one didn't exist.

    I want to help in getting to the bottom of this. I have spent a fair amout of time testing the phones/blackberry handsets at my house - driving around town, etc. If someone wants to send me their Pre, I will run extensive tests next to mine. If I can find another Pre owner nearby, I will ask them to show me theirs and make comparisons.

    Others that know Linux are doing great work at the OS level to understand vz nav and other aspects of this issue.

    That's not a "don't care" thing, that's a "let's help each other by contributing time and knowledge" which is more productive that stirring up a conspiracy theory. In the end, it could be that the conspiracy theory is totally correct. Once we have the actual facts to back it up, it will be much more likely that we can hold the conspirators accountable.
  12. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Clearly you haven't read my posts. Not having access to aGPS may or may not make a difference. I understand that some on every carrier (even sprint) seem to have issues. The point is to come up with a reason that actually makes sense. If mine works and yours doesn't, then you have to explain that. I think it relates more to where I live and travel. If that turns out to be true, it will be easier to work around it or hold someone accountable to fix it.

    If the explanation is that my handset (and others who report it working) escaped from the factory, then you aren't thinking rationally. It also doesn't line up with recent side-by-side I did between my at&t BB Curve and my Pre+. Neither was good enough to give up my Garmin, but they both locked and tracked with about the same speed and accuracy. Good enough to figure out what part of town I was in, and eventually track me down the highway.

    If this was a Verizon conspiracy, you wouldn't hear the Sprint and Bell users saying they have problems, and you would see a huge difference in Google Maps on other carriers (besides the obvious difference on the MotoDroid).

    There are several serious threads here where people are trying to figure out how this stuff works so this can be explained by something other than a conspiracy theory. That's the only way we can identify the offending vendor and hold them accountable.

    The conspiracy stuff is just exhausting. And the post I replied to said that today's article "proved" the conspiracy theory. It did no such thing. Unless you can create repeatable and verifiable behavior. The questions I raise simply point out the cases that don't work for the theory that it's just verizon trying to chase away customers and motivate people to return phones...

    I'm very relaxed.
    wow... i was being sarcastic about the 'escaping' the factory thing.

    and i have read your posts. i agree with you, it's not a 'conspiracy'. too strong a word. but i do believe verizon holds the key to unlock gps on the pre plus, and that article backs it up. frankly the only thing getting more tiresome than the conspiracy theories is you bumping every thread about how it's NOT a conspiracy and that's it, final, done, period.
  13. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonie luv View Post
    wow... i was being sarcastic about the 'escaping' the factory thing.

    and i have read your posts. i agree with you, it's not a 'conspiracy'. too strong a word. but i do believe verizon holds the key to unlock gps on the pre plus, and that article backs it up. frankly the only thing getting more tiresome than the conspiracy theories is you bumping every thread about how it's NOT a conspiracy and that's it, final, done, period.
    I read the article and I don't understand how people are still on the forum saying that it isn't a V issue. It's not about conspiracy theories. Dieter said it perfectly in his article on P|C when he said that it's V's aGPS, therefore they can deny access for 3rd party apps if they choose to do so. I don't see what is so hard for some to understand. V is blocking third party GPS access to their aGPS technology on webOS phones and they're doing it through VZNav. Palm basically said that in their statement. Here is a good article on V's past practice regarding GPS on certain phones: http://www.intomobile.com/2008/12/18...next-year.html

    So the webOS phones on V really only have two ways to access GPS. And if you're getting a lock it's most likely you're doing so b/c the satellites are able to find you pretty easily, but with no access to V's aGPS a Pre Plus owner's mileage on V will vary. But one thing for sure is that if you do have accurate GPS on V, you aren't getting through aGPS.
    Last edited by playboy; 05/06/2010 at 03:12 PM.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  14. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    I read the article and I don't understand how people are still on the forum saying that it isn't a V issue. It's not about conspiracy theories. Dieter said it perfectly in his article on P|C when he said that it's V's aGPS, therefore they can deny access for 3rd party apps if they choose to do so. I don't see what is so hard for some to understand. V is blocking third party GPS access to their aGPS technology on webOS phones and they're doing it through VZNav. Palm basically said that in their statement. Here is a good article on V's past practice regarding GPS on certain phones: Verizon Wireless Promises Unlocked GPS Receivers Next Year!

    So the webOS phones on V really only have two ways to access GPS. And if you're getting a lock it's most likely you're doing so b/c the satellites are able to find you pretty easily, but with no access to V's aGPS a Pre Plus owner's mileage on V will vary. But one thing for sure is that if you do have accurate GPS on V, you aren't getting through aGPS.
    I think you are heading in the right direction. The cool thing about WebOS is that it is Linux, and the homebrew/linux people can always figure out how to copy any key, whether held by Verizon, Palm, etc.

    In another thread there is speculation that the issue is "waking up" the radio and that opening multiple GPS applications seems to speed it up.

    I just tried that, and it seemed to work. Then my phone re-booted itself. After the reboot, the lock was instant, but showing me about a block away. It's never shown me over there before.

    I am convinced part of this is due to not being able to get info to the phone that adjusts for satellite drift (which is what I think aGPS does)...
  15. #56  
    Could it be that GPS applications need to be fixed to use straight gps instead of A-gps. I seem to remember when the first BB Storm came out for Verizon the Gps was truly unlocked but Google Maps never got a Gps signal from it. Until a week or two of bothering Google they updated their maps programs to use GPS and it working fine. It was happily ever after.

    Actually just found this, they fixed it months later:
    http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/200...lackberry.html

    This is where I was following the fix for google maps: http://www.google.com/support/forum/...l=en&start=240
    Last edited by imonvzw; 05/06/2010 at 04:10 PM.
  16. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    ...
    Also, notice the posts from IHC above. Good progress in identifying bugs, not consistent with "crippling". I've talked to many at Palm and VZ escalation that don't agree with your statement.

    IMHO.
    I've noticed a pretty consistent theme on the responses you've given. Now that this has been verified, who were thosee source at Palm and VZ? Are they still not agreeing with the statement?
  17. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I've noticed a pretty consistent theme on the responses you've given. Now that this has been verified, who were thosee source at Palm and VZ? Are they still not agreeing with the statement?
    Not providing access to aGPS is a far cry from a "crippled" GPS. Let's stay tuned while the non-whiners investigate. WebOS is an open platform, and they will be able to figure out how things work. If they come back and declare that it's a big conspiracy, I will be first in line to hold VZ accountable. But, until we have actual (and repeatable) data, the conspiracy stuff just scares uninformed users and probably chases them away from a fantastic phone.

    a GPS is essential to my job. That's why I have a garmin. I travel with blackberry and iphone users all the time. They don't get anything better then I do out of google maps. The point is to keep digging, and stop whining.
  18. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by imonvzw View Post
    Could it be that GPS applications need to be fixed to use straight gps instead of A-gps. I seem to remember when the first BB Storm came out for Verizon the Gps was truly unlocked but Google Maps never got a Gps signal from it. Until a week or two of bothering Google they updated their maps programs to use GPS and it working fine. It was happily ever after.

    Actually just found this, they fixed it months later:
    Official Google Mobile Blog: Google Maps on Verizon's BlackBerry Storm now uses GPS for My Location

    This is where I was following the fix for google maps: Google Maps GPS on BlackBerry Storm - Google Mobile Help
    What seems to be emerging is that without aGPS it might take longer or be impacted by signal fragmentation, etc. That could affect accuracy in certain conditions. I have aGPS on my at&t blackberry, and it isn't really any better than my Pre. Investigation in another thread has some linux talented people are really digging to figure out the specifics. Stay tuned.
  19.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Actually, I care enough that I am interested in getting to the bottom of the issue. I experienced it briefly the other day. I am watching work in other (whining-free) threads where people are doing actual work to understand what is going on, how to work around it, and how to fix it.

    You will recall that I use a dedicated GPS anyway. But my loyalty to Palm is such that I want every Pre/Pixi owner to be happy and convincing their friends to convert to WebOS. The sudden lemming-like appeal may be creating a crisis where one didn't exist.

    I want to help in getting to the bottom of this. I have spent a fair amout of time testing the phones/blackberry handsets at my house - driving around town, etc. If someone wants to send me their Pre, I will run extensive tests next to mine. If I can find another Pre owner nearby, I will ask them to show me theirs and make comparisons.

    Others that know Linux are doing great work at the OS level to understand vz nav and other aspects of this issue.

    That's not a "don't care" thing, that's a "let's help each other by contributing time and knowledge" which is more productive that stirring up a conspiracy theory. In the end, it could be that the conspiracy theory is totally correct. Once we have the actual facts to back it up, it will be much more likely that we can hold the conspirators accountable.
    I am computer savvy enough to get do what I need to do on computers, but I am nowhere near tech savvy enough to figure out on my own why the Pre Plus has lousy GPS. In that sense, I take a pretty basic approach: where there's smoke, there's fire. Whether Verizon's interference with GPS is intentional or not, you simply cannot explain away the mountain of evidence that shows opening VZ Navigator helps get a GPS lock. Whether it's intentional or not, VZ needs to be responsible and ethical and fix it.
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