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  1. #21  
    I am a Verizon customer and understand the complaint.
    However, from the terms you agreed to:

    "You and Verizon Wireless both agree to limit claims against each other for damages or other monetary relief to direct damages. This limitation and waiver will apply regardless of the theory of liability. That means neither of us will try to get any indirect, special, consequential, treble or punitive damages from the other. This limitation and waiver also applies if you bring a claim against one of our suppliers, to the extent we would be required to indemnify the supplier for the claim"
  2. #22  
    Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of or limitations on implied warranties, so the above exclusions and limitations may not apply to you.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by blueray View Post
    I don't get you people. So you think it's ok for companies to walk all over you?
    No. I believe in capitalism. If people actually care about this, and it's not just a fringe minority of whiney nut-jobs, then people will stop doing business with Verizon and they will start to change their practices.

    I stopped doing business with Microsoft years ago, and while they still hold the largest market share, they've been hemorrhaging market share to Mac and Linux for several years. They'll continue to do so until they fail (even if it takes another 20 years) or until they improve things.

    There is also a practical matter of scale here. To win a law suit, you must prove damages. Sure, every once in a while some ***** get's millions of dollars for spilling hot coffee on herself, but we all know those stories because they are rare and noteworthy. How much damage could you prove in this case?

    $10/person?
  4. #24  
    If your provider is lying and messing up his service - why not go to the competition?

    That message (loss of income) is well understood by companies. Actually it's the only language they really reliably understand.

    If you sue - even if you're wining - you're still making monthly payments to a company you think screwed you over.

    Instead of doing a class action suit. Why not write a form letter and get people organized to mail that to Verizon - telling them that unless the feature (in this case GPS) get fixed within reasonable period (give them a few weeks) - everybody sending that letter is going to cancel their contracts and avoid Verizon in the future.
    Much easier. Doesn't need lawyers or courts. And with sufficient numbers of participants very effective.

    They will ignore a couple grumpy customers quitting.
    A couple hundred will be less easy to ignore. And a couple thousand would start to really hurt.
    Last edited by tholap; 05/27/2010 at 06:38 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    If your provider is lying and messing up his service - why not go to the competition?

    That message (loss of income) is well understood by companies. Actually it's the only language they really reliably understand.

    If you sue - even if you're wining - you're still making monthly payments to a company you think screwed you over.

    Instead of doing a class action suit. Why not write a form letter and get people organized to mail that to Verizon - telling them that unless the feature (in this case GPS) get fixed within reasonable period (give them a few weeks) - everybody sending that letter is going to cancel their contracts and avoid Verizon in the future.
    Much easier. Doesn't need layers or courts. And with sufficient numbers of participants very effective.

    They will ignore a couple grumpy customers quitting.
    A couple hundred will be less easy to ignore. And a couple thousand would start to really hurt.
    +1
  6. #26  
    i like many if not most people have GPS that works fine on my pre+

    it is my feeling that this is a bunch of bork and that either people are expecting way too much from the GPS on a phone -- or they have bad units -- not some huge coorperate conspiracy -- come on verizon is better then that -- if they were really going to disable GPS they they would have done it right and none would be working. they have proved it in the past -- this is a bug pure and simple -- a software or hardware anomoly -- sorry for your bad luck -- exchange your phone -- get some realistic expectations or move on
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rob Chilcott

    Twitter @robchilcott
    pre2
    " I am only a stupid electrician after all"

    My house is a webOS house
    My pre 2, Touchpad 32g
    Wife Pixi, touchpad 32gb
    Daughter -- my old pre+
    of course my 16 year old son has and droid incredible but i think i remeber finding him on the porch
  7. #27  
    I have been reading these GPS threads for sometime now and while I'm not on Verizon anymore (swapped two brand new Pre Pluses on Verizon and even verizon people at the corporate store couldn't get GPS to work) I'm curious why certain people (not gonna name them, they are obvious) are so crazy about defending Verizon. So your GPS supposively works when according to precentral's poll most people's don't. Why can't you just respect that fact and those people's efforts to get answers and heck maybe even sue Verizon and shush? They are the ones with problems. You are not and Verizon does not need anyone's defense. (except they may need a good defense attorney if this class action suit really goes through)

    FYI: after I dropped Verizon I went back to Sprint and my GPS locks flawless everytime. hardware difference is bs. only thing different is a button, some extra ram and storage. everything else is friggin identical. oh except webos crippled by Verizon.
  8.    #28  
    Please read my threads thoroughly. I am not looking for money in this lawsuit. I am looking for a working GPS. The money can go directly to the lawyers for all I care. I am standing for my rights when I purchased a phone that said it had a working GPS with no tied services.

    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    If your provider is lying and messing up his service - why not go to the competition?

    That message (loss of income) is well understood by companies. Actually it's the only language they really reliably understand.

    If you sue - even if you're wining - you're still making monthly payments to a company you think screwed you over.

    Instead of doing a class action suit. Why not write a form letter and get people organized to mail that to Verizon - telling them that unless the feature (in this case GPS) get fixed within reasonable period (give them a few weeks) - everybody sending that letter is going to cancel their contracts and avoid Verizon in the future.
    Much easier. Doesn't need layers or courts. And with sufficient numbers of participants very effective.

    They will ignore a couple grumpy customers quitting.
    A couple hundred will be less easy to ignore. And a couple thousand would start to really hurt.
    I'd love to go to the competition, but how do I break my contract with Verizon who isn't giving me the service I paid for and will charge me extra because I stood up and left? I've also tried rallying people together to complain to verizon on their message boards, but only about a dozen people actually took action. Everyone else is just sitting back doing nothing... and that's why Verizon will continue to do what they're doing. Because people could care less how much they steal from them. This is the reason for a lawsuit in this situation. If not enough people are doing something, then it takes a few good people to get the right people involved. If Verizon TRULY is crippling the phones, that's illegal and they can suffer monetary damages. When lawyers are involved, they listen. When a dozen people complain and everyone else sits back and waits for nothing to happen, we all suffer.

    @veedub65: You're right $10 isn't alot for 1 person, but for hundreds of thousands of subscribers, it is. And to top it, it's not just $10, it's $10 A MONTH. That's a bit different. For a typical 2 year subscriber, that's $240 per person (more than what I paid for the phone). Multiply that by 100,000 people and you get $24 Million dollars. (and I'm sure Verizon will sell more than 100,000 units) That's not chump change pal. As I said in my other post, if it was just $10, I probably would have bit my tongue, paid for the VZ Nav software one time, and moved on - but a monthly charge just to use something I paid for? That's illegal.
    Last edited by blueray; 05/04/2010 at 07:11 AM.
  9. #29  
    DID you not have 30 days to determine if the phone was for you? Did you not have 30 days to exchange it for a different phone? Was your GPS working correctly for those 30 days? You had plenty of opportunities to remedy your situation in the first 30 days. You chose not to. Now you are whining how you got screwed and want a class action lawsuit. No one forced you to keep that phone. If you could not figure out in the 30 day grace period that the phone was right for you, then you should really not own a phone. It's way too complicated for you to handle. Don't give us the story you were "tricked" into believing something. After day 2, you still believe their tricks? After day 28 you still believed their tricks? Come on. Common sense obviously is not part of your daily life.
  10. #30  
    While I'm not sure a lawsuit is the best course of action, I'm also a little surprised at the amount of backlash and "just take it" people are posting here. I don't really use my GPS but it definitely does not work correctly on my phone. For me that's an annoyance more than a major issue but I can understand how for other people it would be a huge problem. And there definitely seems to be something funny going on between the interaction of the GPS, Google Maps and VZ Nav. Who is to blame? I'm not sure but it certainly is not the customer's fault that it's not working right.

    And it's not crazy for the customer to expect it to work right and to take steps to make that happen. The "30 day" thing doesn't automatically absolve Verizon or Palm of any blame here. Just because someone might have determined that the non-functional GPS wasn't enough of a reason to return the phone doesn't mean they have no right to expect or want it to be fixed. I would agree that trying to contact Verizon en masse is probably a better idea than a lawsuit but I'm not going to jump down someone's throat for trying to do something to get it working. The bottom line is Palm and Verizon need to get this figured out.
  11. #31  
    Significant damages??

    $10.00/Mo(Vz Navigator Fee) x 24 Mos (Contract Period) = $240.00
    $240.00 x 500,000 (estimated # of Subscribers forced to use navigator to get service they thought they were getting free) = $12000000

    Significant??

    More importantly - if Vz runs the number, maybe they'll fix the problem (or get palm to fix the problem, if necessary)

    Saying "oh well, what the hell" won't convince them that its a problem needing a solution
  12. #32  
    For those that think this is so ridiculous, you must've forgotten the suit brought against Verizon back in 05 for crippling bluetooth on the V710. (Side note: I LOVED that phone and thankfully my Alltel version was not crippled. *I miss Alltel*)
    In love with my launch day Pre Plus! Here are my impressions thus far.
  13. #33  
    BTW, 30 day return period = $35.00 restocking fee!

    $35.00 x 500,000 = $17500000
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by IBM4VT View Post
    While I'm not sure a lawsuit is the best course of action, I'm also a little surprised at the amount of backlash and "just take it" people are posting here. I don't really use my GPS but it definitely does not work correctly on my phone. For me that's an annoyance more than a major issue but I can understand how for other people it would be a huge problem. And there definitely seems to be something funny going on between the interaction of the GPS, Google Maps and VZ Nav. Who is to blame? I'm not sure but it certainly is not the customer's fault that it's not working right.

    And it's not crazy for the customer to expect it to work right and to take steps to make that happen. The "30 day" thing doesn't automatically absolve Verizon or Palm of any blame here. Just because someone might have determined that the non-functional GPS wasn't enough of a reason to return the phone doesn't mean they have no right to expect or want it to be fixed. I would agree that trying to contact Verizon en masse is probably a better idea than a lawsuit but I'm not going to jump down someone's throat for trying to do something to get it working. The bottom line is Palm and Verizon need to get this figured out.
    If I actaully thought that Verizon was behind some sort of scheme, I'd be all for it. But those that have been doing serious testing to isolate the problem don't seem to have solid results that point to Verizon. In my testing, it seems to be somewhat of an issue with Google.

    I'd like to see a homebrew developer create a simple app that gets the location from the GPS radio without using any services from Google or VZ Navigator. If that's possible and reliable, that would demonstrate that the hardware works.

    Then create an app that does the same thing and then autolaunches google maps.

    You get my point. Let's figure out what is going on, and then ensure that they responsible party(s) be held accountable to fix it...

    just sayin'
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by wxman2003 View Post
    DID you not have 30 days to determine if the phone was for you? Did you not have 30 days to exchange it for a different phone? Was your GPS working correctly for those 30 days? You had plenty of opportunities to remedy your situation in the first 30 days. You chose not to. Now you are whining how you got screwed and want a class action lawsuit. No one forced you to keep that phone. If you could not figure out in the 30 day grace period that the phone was right for you, then you should really not own a phone. It's way too complicated for you to handle. Don't give us the story you were "tricked" into believing something. After day 2, you still believe their tricks? After day 28 you still believed their tricks? Come on. Common sense obviously is not part of your daily life.

    Yes and when I asked them to replace it I was told that it's a software bug along with the keyboard double type and the rebooting...that the new update would fix it.

    30 days later the update wasn't out. yes i could have left the pre behind and paid the 35 restock fee for each phone... which would have been almost as much as I paid for the phone in the first place. just to find out i would have wanted the phone back at a later time. I have played with the blackberries and droids of Verizon. I didn't like them

    I agree with the OP. If he wants something to work that Verizon says will work before buying it he has every right to make the request

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    If I actaully thought that Verizon was behind some sort of scheme, I'd be all for it. But those that have been doing serious testing to isolate the problem don't seem to have solid results that point to Verizon. In my testing, it seems to be somewhat of an issue with Google.

    I'd like to see a homebrew developer create a simple app that gets the location from the GPS radio without using any services from Google or VZ Navigator. If that's possible and reliable, that would demonstrate that the hardware works.

    Then create an app that does the same thing and then autolaunches google maps.

    You get my point. Let's figure out what is going on, and then ensure that they responsible party(s) be held accountable to fix it...

    just sayin'
    I'm not even talking about Google Maps. I'm using other 3rd party GPS apps things like NiceGPS Superior and even it's failing
    Last edited by Major Payne; 05/04/2010 at 09:45 AM.
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by cgokcea View Post
    I have been reading these GPS threads for sometime now and while I'm not on Verizon anymore (swapped two brand new Pre Pluses on Verizon and even verizon people at the corporate store couldn't get GPS to work) I'm curious why certain people (not gonna name them, they are obvious) are so crazy about defending Verizon. So your GPS supposively works when according to precentral's poll most people's don't. Why can't you just respect that fact and those people's efforts to get answers and heck maybe even sue Verizon and shush? They are the ones with problems. You are not and Verizon does not need anyone's defense. (except they may need a good defense attorney if this class action suit really goes through)

    FYI: after I dropped Verizon I went back to Sprint and my GPS locks flawless everytime. hardware difference is bs. only thing different is a button, some extra ram and storage. everything else is friggin identical. oh except webos crippled by Verizon.
    I have a feeling you are pointing at me with this post. Maybe not as i don't feel that i am a verizon defender only that to me and the people that i deal with face to face do not exibit the problems that you and the other people in this thread are so vocal about -- the numbers don't add up to me there are maybe less then a hundred vocal people writing about this issue and to me that is a very small number of people when you look at the numbers of these phones in peoples hands -- i bought a V710 the day it came out and remember the numbers of people that were complaining about the BT being crippled -- the big difference there was that EVERY SINGLE V710 WORKED IN THE SAME WAY and to the best of my knowledge with the BB that was suffering from crippled GPS there too every single phone exibited the same symptoms where as here there are only a few or some or 1/2 who knows the numbers but some work and some don't -- if this was something done by palm or verizon or google then all phones would exibit the same behavior would they not - - rather then something else -- maybe a hardware issue? or something in the stacks? -- what i am saying is not that your Pre + is not misfunctiioning rather that i personally feel that you are barking up the wrong tree saying that it is an intentional problem. you are wasting your and other peoples time here when to me logic points else where. and to say that on every single sprint or GSM companies pre the GPS works flawlessly is misinformation as well as there are numerous threads about sprint GPS being flawed long before the PRE + ever even made it to verizon - it is good to let verizon know that they have a problem with the phone but a silly waste of time to propogate these conspiracy theories

    just MHO
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rob Chilcott

    Twitter @robchilcott
    pre2
    " I am only a stupid electrician after all"

    My house is a webOS house
    My pre 2, Touchpad 32g
    Wife Pixi, touchpad 32gb
    Daughter -- my old pre+
    of course my 16 year old son has and droid incredible but i think i remeber finding him on the porch
  17. #37  
    Kudos to jhodnettejr. He is doing some great work to identify where the problem is rather than just whining about Verizon.

    Has everyone tried these recommendations? I think everyone needs to do this and report back to the appropriate GPS thread with their results:

    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    i've been heavily researching and tweaking around this issue. please advise how you have "location services" setup.
    1- turn off "auto-locate"
    2- click prefs -> then "locate me using" -check GPS (NOT google services)

    it's imperative that auto-locate AND locate me using are set as above. VZW Pre+s have a bug that prevents gps apps from choosing between google services and the GPS chipset. i believe that VZnavi has the "fix" for that bug, that's why it properly chooses aGPS (triangulation via cell towers) or actual GPS satellite fix (this can take several minutes if you've either toggled the gps off since it has to reaccuire more than one satelitte signal to get accurate.)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Kudos to jhodnettejr. He is doing some great work to identify where the problem is rather than just whining about Verizon.

    Has everyone tried these recommendations? I think everyone needs to do this and report back to the appropriate GPS thread with their results:
    Been there done that got the shirt. takes me 1-2 mins to get a lock and then reports me about half a mile away. with a large circle around it in googlemaps
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  19. #39  
    Too many lawsuits these days.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    Been there done that got the shirt. takes me 1-2 mins to get a lock and then reports me about half a mile away. with a large circle around it in googlemaps
    Have you selected "GPS Only" as the choice for "locate me"?

    I can't see what is written on your t-shirt, so I'm looking for the specifics of "done that". Thanks!
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