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  1. dandar's Avatar
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       #1  
    Could the crippled GPS possibly put us in danger in case of emergency? Say you don't exactly know where you are or you're hurt and can't tell them, if the phone shows your location a mile away you're screwed.

    Can anyone shed some light on this issue?
  2. ght
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    #2  
    This very thought has occurred to me, but I keep forgetting to post. It is definitely a serious concern for me.
  3. #3  
    mine isn't crippled. It's accurate to a few feet. Are you outside for a few minutes? I've had several replaceme rs for other problems, gps has been perfect on all of them. I don't think it is crippled. Myust be more complicated than just 'bad old verizon'...
  4. ght
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    #4  
    OK. We've all heard enough about how your gps is working just fine. We're not dumb. We know how gps works. It's just not functioning properly on our phones.

    Please refrain from posting your BS on any more of these threads. Get a life.
  5. #5  
    mine works fine too, you all must be doing something wrong
  6. #6  
    GHT: Dude, the point is that you need to provide more info and do some troubleshooting if you actually want to find a solution - and before you start flaming. And please read this entire post before you flame it. You might learn something, and you might get closer to a solution.

    "It's not working, it must be Verizon crippling it because they are a mean old phone company" isn't going to be of much help.

    So answer a few basic questions. Start with: Why did you start another thread when there are several already here? Then move on to: Did you go outside for at least 5 minutes with the gps radio on? Did you stop and restart google maps after you were out there for at least 5 minutes?

    Then try a few of the other free location-based apps (i.e. send my location) to send your coordinates to yourself as a text message. tap the link in the txt and see if that position comes up in google maps as being where you are.

    Ya see?

    The reason I am telling you mine works is because that is a clue that it is possible for it to work, and probably not some blanket "crippling" from VZ. They can't cripple it for e911 by law, and if you leave it on for other services, it is using the same coordinates, just like every phone made since it became a legal requirement.

    Your goal here shouldn't be to whine, it should be to figure out what is different between "not working" for you and "working" for those of us that have it working. If you actually want assistance solving this, post your detailed findings back here. If nothing gets you close to your location, tell us how close you are. When I am inside, it gets me to within a mile because it triangulates from adjacent cell towers, and that's the best you can get from that method. I know where the cell towers are around my house, so I can actually tell from that which one my phone is connected to for calls. When I go outside and restart google maps and google latitude, it takes a few minutes (as it does with the gps in my car) and then it is accurate.

    If absolutely none of that works, try using a friend's blackberry which runs the same version of google maps. Try to find one that is running on verizon for side-to-side comparison. Report back what happens.

    If that doesn't work, maybe we need a list of any patches, overclocking, themes, etc. I can't imagine any of those would cause a problem, but ya never know.

    At some point, you wind up going to a Verizon company store and have them bring their demo unit outside. Wait 5 minutes for both (with GPS radio on) and then compare what you get in google maps and google latitude, as well as the free LBS apps. It's possible that your particular handset is defective. At that moment the rep standing next to you in the parking lot will see that and arrange a replacement for you back inside.

    If you don't want to make any effort to figure it out, then I suggest strongly that you return the phone to Verizon and choose something you can be confident in. You can do that as soon as you have spent 5 minutes of quality time in the parking lot of your local Verizon store to show him there is a problem.

    Sorry if that's BS. I have a life and I thought I'd spend a bit of my life and experience trying to help you. If you don't want my help, look around and the other threads on this and see if they are any more helpful than my request for info.

    What I just typed above is basically what anyone on this forum, VZ tech support, Palm, etc is going to take you through.

    My kids used to watch sesame street, and they played a game called "one of these things is not like the other" and that is exactly what good troubleshooting does. If that's too old a reference, then maybe you will remember Blue's Clues. Similar concept.

    So, we know it is possible for the GPS to work because I've had several working (including my current device) and now you have to narrow down what is different between mine and yours, and if there are circumstances where you get an accurate location. I am happy to help if you'd like, and you are welcome to skip past my posts if you prefer someone else's thoughts.

    You can also PM me if you'd like. I'm easy, and I will help when asked - but I can't help content-free whining such as the OP.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/02/2010 at 11:23 AM.
  7. sweaner's Avatar
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    #7  
    Should all that really be necessary?
  8. #8  
    Also, let's be clear on what the e911 GPS functionality does. It tells the phone system which emergency call center to route your phone to. It doesn't send your address or anything like Google Latitude or FourSquare does. If you are in your car and in another area code (or in an overlay area code where there is more than one area code possible in the same zip codes - which is most major cities) then it needs to send the call to the e911 center where you are, not where your phone number implies.

    For example: If you live in Denver, your phone might be assigned a 303 area code, which covers a huge part of the state. If you are in Denver and you call e911, you will be routed to the Denver metro emergency call center.

    However, if you happen to be on vacation and are driving through Colorado Springs, the call would be routed to the emergency call center for area code 719.

    The ability to triangulate between cell towers helps the phone system figure out a rough idea of your location so it can route the call, not so someone can parachute to within 15 feet of where you make the call.

    The point is that you don't have to worry about being safe, even if your gps radio is somehow completely off, or if you are riding in the pack of a fedex truck where your phone can't get a gps signal.

    You are safe, and your 911 call will get to the right place to help you.

    Now that we all know we are safe, we can perhaps focus on gathering enough info to determine what problems there might be with a particular phone, or the particular way it is being used.

    K?
  9. ght
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    #9  
    Uh, yeah. Maybe YOU should read the thread, and you would see that I did not start it.

    It just appears to me that all you ever have to contribute to this problem is "Mine works fine. The rest of you are just dumb."

    I've never blamed the issue on Verizon, Palm (hardware or software), or Google Maps since I have no idea which is at fault. I doubt Google Maps, as every app or function trying to use gps fails to get a lock. Trapster, nicegps, sendmylocation, and ##477# - none can get a lock outside under a clear sky even after 10 minutes. The only thing I have noticed that I haven't seen posted elsewhere is that prior to the 1.4.1.1 update, starting VZnav would instantly fix my gps issues. After the update, that trick no longer works.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweaner View Post
    Should all that really be necessary?
    It depends. In a perfect world, it shouldn't be necessary because everything should "just work". Apple makes a ton of money by delivering on that better than most. I certainly get frustrated when things don't work the way I expect (even if I do it wrong), and last forever.

    But in the REAL world, where things aren't so perfect (and Steve Jobs doesn't have control of my wallet) you have to decide what the OP's goal is. If he wants to figure out How it works, IF it works, and/or how to MAKE IT work? Then yes, unless you can magically explain why mine works and his doesn't.

    If the goal is to whine, there is an app for that. It's called FML.com and you can get it in the App Catalog. From there you can post content-free whining to fml.com from the Pre, and then head over to the VZ store to exchange it for something else. Or ask the VZ store to "fix" it, at which point they will start the troubleshooting steps listed above.

    If you want to leave it with them, I'm sure they will do all of what I suggested and then give you a call when they've determined what is going on. My guess is user error, but it could be something with a particular person's handset.

    Or, you can assume that Verizon really did "cripple" the GPS and they somehow missed mine (and the last one I had, and the Pre belonging to hatchettjack that he posted above.) Take your pick. Assume magic, assume evil phone company, trade, or whine. Take your pick once you have established your goal.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/02/2010 at 11:50 AM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by GHT View Post
    Uh, yeah. Maybe YOU should read the thread, and you would see that I did not start it.

    It just appears to me that all you ever have to contribute to this problem is "Mine works fine. The rest of you are just dumb."

    I've never blamed the issue on Verizon, Palm (hardware or software), or Google Maps since I have no idea which is at fault. I doubt Google Maps, as every app or function trying to use gps fails to get a lock. Trapster, nicegps, sendmylocation, and ##477# - none can get a lock outside under a clear sky even after 10 minutes. The only thing I have noticed that I haven't seen posted elsewhere is that prior to the 1.4.1.1 update, starting VZnav would instantly fix my gps issues. After the update, that trick no longer works.
    OK, now you need to re-read my post. I mentioned the OP's post, not yours. OP=Original Poster, which isn't you. And the OP (Original Poster) specifically made the statement that the GPS is "crippled." I don't believe it is. If it was, he would have to explain how Verizon managed to only "cripple" some phones and missed mine. It was the OP (Original Poster) that accused Verizon.

    Your point about VZ Navigator is good information, and possibly a clue. I have never launched my VZ navigator app (I have the patch that hides it). Maybe there is a connection. Maybe others can chime in here to add that little data point to the discussion. Maybe the OP (Original Poster) can tell us whether he has ever launched his VZ navigator. You might also revert to a stock Pre and try it again. Try battery pull, etc. Is it a pain, yep. Is there an alternative, yep - get the FML.com app.

    If you can't get a GPS lock on a stock Pre without VZ Navigator, I would recommend a visit to the local VZ store - and don't leave until you have one that does.

    Either way, it takes some methodology to identify an issue. Either way, we try to help one another in these forums, not flame someone who magically got a phone that Verizon missed when they were crippling phones at the factory in China.

    And if you think that all my posts in these forums have been unhelpful, that's a shame. Feel free to ignore my posts when you come across them.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/02/2010 at 12:12 PM.
  12. ght
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    #12  
    Have any Sprint users had gps issues? I will be very interested in how the Pre Plus performs on Sprint. That should be a clue on hardware vs software. My personal opinion is that some hardware issue is preventing the software from waking the gps chip.
  13. dandar's Avatar
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    OK, now you need to re-read my post. I mentioned the OP's post, not yours. OP=Original Poster, which isn't you. And the OP (Original Poster) specifically made the statement that the GPS is "crippled." I don't believe it is.
    It seems it's only your opinion that GPS on the Pre Plus is just fine. I'll support my opinion with the following:

    Palm Pre Plus GPS Might Be a Little Janky - palm pre plus - Gizmodo

    Palm Pre Plus plagued by problems with the GPS? Boy Genius Report

    webOS 1.4.1.1 update may have fixed two major Pre Plus problems | Smartphones and Cell Phones | ZDNet.com

    Palm Pre Plus MMS and GPS issues crop up, webOS update can't come soon enough -- Engadget Mobile

    Palm Pre Plus suffering from GPS issues?

    I can provide more links but I think my point is made. There is enough people with problems (I turn on google maps and it shows me a mile from where I am) that would preclude it being a user error. If your phone is fine, just state it and be happy that you have a good one. The rest of us can't rely on google maps (thankfully I have GPS in my car's radio).

    Having said that, the problem seems to be limited to google's method of location services. Once I turned it off and set the phone to rely on GPS only it's accurate to within 20 feet. Not great, but I will take 20 feet over a mile.

    Now regarding e911, straight from FCC.gov :
    "Under Phase II, the FCC requires wireless carriers, within six months of a valid request by a PSAP, to begin providing information that is more precise to PSAPs, specifically, the latitude and longitude of the caller. This information must meet FCC accuracy standards, generally to within 50 to 300 meters, depending on the type of technology used. "

    Now some cell phone operators are being late with this technology so only some locations in US have it, but by 2012 it's supposed to be available nationwide. So please show some civility and stop shooting from the hip.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandar View Post
    It seems it's only your opinion that GPS on the Pre Plus is just fine. I'll support my opinion with the following:

    Palm Pre Plus GPS Might Be a Little Janky - palm pre plus - Gizmodo

    Palm Pre Plus plagued by problems with the GPS? Boy Genius Report

    webOS 1.4.1.1 update may have fixed two major Pre Plus problems | Smartphones and Cell Phones | ZDNet.com

    Palm Pre Plus MMS and GPS issues crop up, webOS update can't come soon enough -- Engadget Mobile

    Palm Pre Plus suffering from GPS issues?

    I can provide more links but I think my point is made. There is enough people with problems (I turn on google maps and it shows me a mile from where I am) that would preclude it being a user error. If your phone is fine, just state it and be happy that you have a good one. The rest of us can't rely on google maps (thankfully I have GPS in my car's radio).

    Having said that, the problem seems to be limited to google's method of location services. Once I turned it off and set the phone to rely on GPS only it's accurate to within 20 feet. Not great, but I will take 20 feet over a mile.

    Now regarding e911, straight from FCC.gov :
    "Under Phase II, the FCC requires wireless carriers, within six months of a valid request by a PSAP, to begin providing information that is more precise to PSAPs, specifically, the latitude and longitude of the caller. This information must meet FCC accuracy standards, generally to within 50 to 300 meters, depending on the type of technology used. "

    Now some cell phone operators are being late with this technology so only some locations in US have it, but by 2012 it's supposed to be available nationwide. So please show some civility and stop shooting from the hip. Sometimes it's better to be quiet and have people think you're smart than to (in this instance) start typing and remove all doubt.

    I didn't say no one has problems. I suggest that some of them may be the phone, and some of them may be the user. And I asked pithy questions to gather information so the person asking for help might solve his problem, regardless of the source. It was nice of you to post those links to prove something to me that I already acknowledged. SOME PEOPLE DON"T HAVE AN ACCURATE LOCATION ON THEIR PRE FROM WITHIN GOOGLE MAPS. Thanks for making SURE that I know that now... Much easier than actually reading my posts.

    Of course I know some people have a problem. That's why there are several threads on PreCentral about that topic. But if the people with the issue don't include basic information like "I tried it outside" and "I had the GPS Radio on" and "I have/haven't ever started the VZ Nav app" then how will anyone ever solve the problem?

    You are correct that the e911 standards are changing, and that's good for everyone. But 300 meters isn't pinpint accuracy as you'd exect with google maps. So the point remains. When someone says "it doesn't work" they need to define what "doesn't work means". For e911, 300 meters is "working", for someone using google maps outside, 3 meters is a reasonable expectation. My point was to focus the OP on what defines "working" for his phone, and separate out the e911 issue by assuring him that he is safe even if his GPS isn't working. I further suggested that there is something more than just "a GPS being crippled by Verizon" that would expain why some have it working, and some don't. I didn't say "mine works, so na na na boo hoo".

    I said that mine works, as do others, so that's a data point in understanding what the problem is, and somewhat proving that VZ didn't "cripple" the GPS as the OP suggested.

    I learned something from you about telling it to rely only on the GPS and not the tower. That's good. People with the issue should try that. It would be cool if you'd post a sentence or two about how they might do that, and if that is the default. Maybe mine have worked because I never messed with the default. Dunno.

    You can't read my posts and suggest that I was telling the OP he was stupid because his doesn't work. I cant stress this enough, and I've repeated it in every post above. The fact that mine works proves that Verizon isn't crippling the GPS as the OP suggested. The fact that there was zero information in the post (and that's been true in the other threads that this thread duplicates) indicates that some basic info needs to be gathered before jumping to conclusions and blaming any carrier.

    If you read my posts, you will see good engineering process and a methodical approach to trouble shooting. I have quite a bit of experience in this regard. You will find my questions to be surprisingly similar to what customer support would ask if you called VZ to ask for help with the GPS accuracy in Google maps.

    Repeat after me: "Cantaffordit hasn't just said *mine works and that's all that matters* in this thread or any other. However, he has provided a couple of data points (some Pre+ phones work), asked a few clarifying questions (did you try it outside?), and made some helpful suggestions on how to gather more info (try other LBS apps, compare to the unit at the VZ store)."

    Keep repeating that as you read my posts to help you feel better.

    I have to say that the tone around PreCentral has really declined as of late. This has always been a tight community that helps one another and respects members of any technical level. Based on this and other threads, that seems to be changing - and not in a good way.

    I hope your posts will be helpful going forward, and not just an opportunity to tell me how stupid I am. I may be a lot of things (including helpful) but I am not stupid. You clearly aren't stupid, either. However, you might want to check your attitude. It seems as though someone put something bad in your cheerios this morning.
  15. #15  
    I thought my GPS in google maps was a little off as well. I went outside and loaded google maps on my new Pre Plus of 6 days and within 3 minutes It triangulated while i watched it and it was withing 5 feet of my actual position. You have to give it time to triangulate.
  16. #16  
    To the OP: In appreciation for all the links to problems with the GPS, here is a list of links here on PreCentral where you could have looked for help rather than starting a new thread to declare that Verizon crippled the GPS. This doesn't include other forums such as Palm.com, nor does it include the official/sticky threads that aggregate lists of issues. There are MANY of those links where you could possibly have found answers - if you had bothered to search.

    However, here are some that have GPS problems identified in the title:
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...s-problem.html
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...libration.html
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...about-gps.html
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...n-gps-fix.html
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...s-problem.html
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ps-issues.html

    Or, you can just clog up this forum by starting new and redundant threads to declare that your carrier has conspired to cripple some phones, while letting others work properly just to keep their customers guessing.

    Read the threads I've listed above. You might find some info. Visit the forums ad Palm.com and you will also find threads over there. On the Palm site you can do a live chat with a Palm support rep to get real-time help at no cost. I've had good success there when I've had a question.

    You can also call VZ customer support and ask for them to escalate this to a smartphone specialist and speak to someone that really knows a lot about the Pre+. If you talk to VZ, be sure to mention that you think they crippled the GPS, and see what their response is...

    Then just lay awake at night trying to figure out why Verizon sends me phones with a working GPS because apparently I am special.

    Or grow up, get some manners, learn to search the forums, and try to avoid content-free whining with declarations that are just not true.

    Either would work for me.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickBellantoni View Post
    I thought my GPS in google maps was a little off as well. I went outside and loaded google maps on my new Pre Plus of 6 days and within 3 minutes It triangulated while i watched it and it was withing 5 feet of my actual position. You have to give it time to triangulate.
    According to the OP, that just makes you snooty and arrogant. The fact that yours works just makes you rude and unhelpful, and unwelcome in his club for people that think Verizon conspires to cripple things so their customers will be angry and return their phones and switch to the competition.

    In the OP's world, the GPS doesn't work because it is crippled. As they say on Myth Busters... he "rejects your reality and substitutes his own."

    Note to the OP: You can head over to the Myth Busters web site and buy a t-shirt with that slogan on it. Wearing it might make you feel good.
  18. Gunnole's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    According to the OP, that just makes you snooty and arrogant. The fact that yours works just makes you rude and unhelpful, and unwelcome in his club for people that think Verizon conspires to cripple things so their customers will be angry and return their phones and switch to the competition.

    In the OP's world, the GPS doesn't work because it is crippled. As they say on Myth Busters... he "rejects your reality and substitutes his own."

    Note to the OP: You can head over to the Myth Busters web site and buy a t-shirt with that slogan on it. Wearing it might make you feel good.
    I don't think it's the capability of your GPS that makes you sound snooty, arrogant, rude, and unhelpful; but rather the snootiness, rudeness, arrogance, and unhelpfulness tone in your responses to the OP.

    Just for the record, I disagree with the OP as well - I don't think Verizon is intentionally crippling GPS - but there is clearly enough VZW Pre+ owners who have GPS that doesn't work at all or only works sporadically. Denying that or belittling the users with problems won't get you very far.

    Mine fluctuates between working great and not working at all. Rebooting sometimes helps. I use GolfPinFinder when I play golf (which is always outdoors in great weather) and it will almost always start working from a) the very beginning or b) within 2 HOURS of starting my round of golf. I've never made it past 9 holes without it eventually starting to work.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNole View Post
    I don't think it's the capability of your GPS that makes you sound snooty, arrogant, rude, and unhelpful; but rather the snootiness, rudeness, arrogance, and unhelpfulness tone in your responses to the OP.

    Just for the record, I disagree with the OP as well - I don't think Verizon is intentionally crippling GPS - but there is clearly enough VZW Pre+ owners who have GPS that doesn't work at all or only works sporadically. Denying that or belittling the users with problems won't get you very far.

    Mine fluctuates between working great and not working at all. Rebooting sometimes helps. I use GolfPinFinder when I play golf (which is always outdoors in great weather) and it will almost always start working from a) the very beginning or b) within 2 HOURS of starting my round of golf. I've never made it past 9 holes without it eventually starting to work.
    Good points. I saw in another thread that the trick is to turn off Auto-Locate so that the app has to ask your permission to use the GPS each time you launch it. I always have used my phone with Auto-locate off just to save battery. It might be worth trying that if you aren't already running it that way. It's possible that having the application "wake up" the gps radio each time might solve the issue. I'd be curious if that works for you (or anyone else).

    Sorry for being snooty. It just didn't sit well when a noob tells me to get a life just because I tried to help... I'll behave now.

  20. #20  
    I'm pretty sure that emergency services use Cell Phone Triangulation to actually figure out your location in the event of an emergency...I could be wrong though.
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