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  1. VKitty's Avatar
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       #1  
    I was talking with a few friends of mine, and we were discussing Multitasking. I told them I am getting a Palm Pre Plus because it does the best at multitasking. They preceded to show me links that the Palm Pre[Plus] is not the only phone that does true multitasking.

    They went on to say they the Droid and Incredible both can have 3rd party apps simultaneously run in the background, as well as the iPhone 4.0

    iPhone 4.0 OS Adds Multitasking and More


    Is this true?

    I thought only the Palm Pre[Plus] was the only phone that does true multitasking.
  2. Kedar's Avatar
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    #2  
    Android multitasks.
    Iphone OS 4.0 (not even released yet) will half-multitask, sorta...

    However, WebOS does multitasking efficiently. The cards, gestures, swipes, etc. All that takes into account the fact that you can do two things at once.
    Android and BB does it... just not as elegantly as the card metaphor.
  3. VKitty's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedar View Post
    Iphone OS 4.0 (not even released yet) will half-multitask, sorta...
    How will the iPhone 4.0 sotra multitask?

    I heard they will be able to run any 3rd party they just need to make use of the background library.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vkitty View Post
    How will the iPhone 4.0 sotra multitask?

    I heard they will be able to run any 3rd party they just need to make use of the background library.
    The iPhone has a series of API's that will enable different (7) forms of multitasking. Apple went this route as a way of lowering the demands on both the processor and the battery.

    I won't list them all but here are a few of the different systems, each with an example;

    1) Application put into the background is 'state frozen'. This would be useful for say a game application. For instance if the phone rings while you were playing one of the racing games, the game itself would suspend into the background, freezing it's current state. You would then answer the phone call, after the phone call is finished you would then be able to go back to the game which would carry on right from where you left it. In the case of a game you don't need to have ANY of its processes running when you're not actually playing it....therefore this method is optimal in this situation.

    2) Application put into the background leaves a small process running but retires all other processes associated with that application. For instance if you were listening to a 'net radio', you could activate the radio, select the station and then put the net radio app into the background so that you could work on another app or place a phone call, or surf the web...etc. The app in this case would keep a small 'sandboxed' process running that would keep the stream that you selected playing...your music would continue while you did other tasks. In this case the single small process is much less energy intensive than the whole app staying alive, and the effect is the same. Bringing the 'net radio' back into the foreground would just re-enable the app from it's 'frozen state' while maintaining the running process that allows you to hear your selected station.

    3) Application put into the background leaves a passive 'listening process' up that looks for a notification signal. This passive process consumes very little power as it is only waiting for a signal from the cloud that indicates that something for that app has a state change. For instance when a new email has arrived the email app would display a number indicating how many unread emails are waiting.

    There are four other API's that offer programers a variety of ways to tailor their application so that it can run in the background as efficiently as possible.

    Hope that this helps answer your question.
  5. VKitty's Avatar
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       #5  
    So, if the dev uses the load while in the background lib, then they could have true multitasking like WebOs?
  6. #6  
    You and your friends should read this article that Gizmodo recently completed on multitasking. They looked at how multitasking is accomplished on each phone and how they differ.

    Giz Explains: How Multitasking Works on a Phone - iPhone - Gizmodo

    Its a really good read.

    While Android does multitasking, its is so much different than webOS. Its not intuitive for the user. Its not just there. Same for Apple's version. As Giz said, with webOS multitasking its just there. That is the big difference. You don't have to work to get to it. You aren't limited to your last seven home screens or apps.

    And while Apple's first party apps already multitask, anyone that has used a iPhone and then webOS knows that what Apple calls multitask is worlds apart from what webOS does. Again, with webOS its just there and that makes it so much more inituitive for the user.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  7. #7  
    As the resident iPhone user, I would like to weigh in on the multitasking question.

    First, I have always believed that multitasking was a thin thread to hang your competitive advantage on. It is a word that has only come into public consciousness very recently. It is not like multitasking is on the checklist of potential shoppers. Most would not even know what you are talking about.

    It comes down to what two things a person wants to do with their phone at the same time. If a person wants to listen to music while checking their email or reading this post, they can do so without thinking about it. That's multitasking. If, while reading this article, they decide they want to clip out this sentence and email it to a friend, they can copy/paste, and send, all without stopping their music. That's multitasking. If they are playing a game and get a call, they can take the call, curse out the telemarketer, and in most cases, return to the game where they left off. That's multitasking.

    If a CDMA WebOS user gets a call about a movie while on 3G, they cannot switch to a movie app and look up the information without first ending the call. That's multitasking?

    As I said, it depends on what it is you want to do. There is no significant outcry of voices complaining about the lack of "multitasking" on the iPhone OS. The reason, at least in part, is that iPhone users can multitask the things they most want to do. Of course there are exceptions which are being addressed.

    Don't get fooled by the strawman named "real" multitasking. Try and think of any real-world situation that you are likely to encounter and ask if that will be possible with iPhone 4.0. If the answer is yes, then that is "real" multitasking. Apple is doing it in a way that saves resources so that performance does not suffer and the battery life does not take a hit. That may not be "real" multitasking, but it is "smart" multitasking.

    The bigger question is, does any of this matter beyond tech discussion boards out in the wide world of "real" people. I think not. If it did, people would not be buying iPhones as fast as Apple can make them. People would be insisting on phones that do "real" multitasking and that play Flash. No such market demand has been detected. This is only a buzzword because iPhone competitors are frantically trying to come up with ways their platforms are different and better. Multitasking is the best some can do. Too bad it is not something the buying public seems to care much about. WebOS may develop some "real" differentiators eventually. Till then Palm fans will continue to tell themselves why Apple's announced solutions are neither "real" or "multitasking."

    Good luck with that.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    If a CDMA WebOS user gets a call about a movie while on 3G, they cannot switch to a movie app and look up the information without first ending the call. That's multitasking?
    That's a CDMA limitation and ya know it. If iPhone ever came to CDMA, it'd have the same issue.


    Honestly, webOS does multitasking in the most visually pleasing/user convenient way.

    Android and (I believe) BlackBerry can multitask. Apple is releasing a special multitasking API, which I think is where the whole "sorta multitasking" idea comes from. Developers will have to purposefully code their apps to multitask, whereas on webOS, Android, etc., none of that is necessary as the OS was designed to multitask, with no special developer attention needed.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    That's a CDMA limitation and ya know it. If iPhone ever came to CDMA, it'd have the same issue.
    Absolutely! I make no bones about that. My point was that the average person would not know that, nor would they care, nor should they. It is all a valid part of the multitasking issue. That limitation may not be Palm's fault, but it is their problem, and that of their customers. As I said, I don't see any evidence that multitasking is a real consumer issue. It is just a one upsmanship issue for tech geeks like us.

    As for the elegant implementation of WebOS, that comes right out of the iPhone Safari browser with very little modification. It is in no way original. It is a logical next step from what Apple implemented. Palm decided to make that one feature of Safari the template for its entire OS. In doing so, they sort of stole the most elegant implementation. We mostly have Apple to thank for the look and feel of the WebOS card structure. But, hey, I can easily admit that the WebOS implementation of multitasking looks far nicer than what Apple will be doing. But that does not make it any more real or better.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    But, hey, I can easily admit that the WebOS implementation of multitasking looks far nicer than what Apple will be doing. But that does not make it any more real or better.
    So it is better looking
    it is more intuitive
    no developer modifications need to be made to make their app multitask
    all apps can multitask

    and yet it isn't better? What does Apple have in its implementation that would make you think it is not a closed case?
    Joe Dirt: Well, I see you got those snakes and sparklers. But where's the good stuff man?
    Kicking Wing: Good stuff? This is the good stuff, snakes and sparklers.
    Joe Dirt: Are you nuts dude? You need stuff that'll explode. Go *boom*!
    Kicking Wing: Why is that good?
    Joe Dirt: Well, huh, might as, might as well ask why is a tree good? Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good?
  11. #11  
    Hello,remember I started a thread about this already...we not starting it all over again. If so please go to the thread and proceed. lmao!
  12. #12  
    No drain on resources like performance or battery life. Of course, we will have to see if that pans out.
  13. kalex's Avatar
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    #13  
    Steve said its magical, then it means its magical and great and best one over them all

    BTW comments about iphone's battery performance with multitasking are misleading. I used an iphone before and battery performance is far from perfect even without mutlitasking enabled. so when people say that apple's multitasking is better on battery life, its not really true. Iphone can drain its battery as fast as Palm Pre can. it all depends on what u are using it for and where you are located.

    Iphone came out way before WebOS did, so why didn't apple use the card system on the iphones? hmm they must have let one get away
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalex View Post
    Steve said its magical, then it means its magical and great and best one over them all

    BTW comments about iphone's battery performance with multitasking are misleading. I used an iphone before and battery performance is far from perfect even without mutlitasking enabled. so when people say that apple's multitasking is better on battery life, its not really true. Iphone can drain its battery as fast as Palm Pre can. it all depends on what u are using it for and where you are located.

    Iphone came out way before WebOS did, so why didn't apple use the card system on the iphones? hmm they must have let one get away
    Amen..Goodnight!
  15. #15  
    If Apple's implementation in Safari was magical and revolutionary that must mean that Palm's implementation is beyond magical and revolutionary.

    And while the normal user may not walk into the store wondering about multitasking the elegant and intuitive implementation in webOS allows you to just do it without wondering about it. You can't say the same thing for Apple's or Android's implementations.

    And while CDMA may have limitations, the webOS phones to be released on AT&T in the next couple of weeks will not have those limitations.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  16. #16  
    I'll just say that multi-tasking is a true advantage of webOS that's simply difficult to explain properly; you actually have to use it to understand why it's such a great feature. Heck, I thought I wouldn't care about it much, but as I keep using the Pre, I keep wishing more of my devices worked like it does.

    I guess the best I can say about it is that the people dismissing that feature and how it works on the Pre lack foresight. I mean, sure, someone can make up as many reasons as they want as to why its multi-tasking implementation is overkill, unnecessary on a phone, whatever, but the reality is that would be no different than the rather infamous moment when some computer guys decided that no one would ever need more than 640k of RAM. We all know how that went...
  17. #17  
    It's true that esoteric discussions about "multitasking" aren't what webOS fans should be talking about. Rather, we should simply show what's great about how webOS handles multiple applications--the card metaphor is so much more familiar to anyone who's used a computer. And, while the iPhone OS is a subset of OS X and is thus inherently inefficient (thus, the limitations), webOS was built from the ground up as a mobile OS. As far as I can tell, the only thing holding webOS back from having the best performance to go along with the best user experience is RAM (easily solved as RAM prices fall) and enabling the GPU.

    Palm is already well on the way to using technologies like CSS transforms to utilize the GPU in the GUI, along with more efficient background systems (e.g., javascript services to replace Java, and other stuff I don't really understand). And with the Pre+, they've already taken a step toward fixing the memory problem. As it is, webOS does just fine with memory except for running 3D games, but as far as I know even that's not nearly the issue in the Pre+ as it is the original Pre.

    I look at it this way: webOS gives users the option of how we want to use our device. We can do things the iPhone way by just running a single app at a time, or we can run as many apps as we like and perhaps suffer a little performance degradation along the way. The "Too Many Cards" issue is really only a problem because webOS currently doesn't seem to release memory efficiently. If I could simply close a card and then open another, the message would be nothing but an indication that I've hit the available limits.

    However, what's important here is that Palm gives us, the users, the ability to choose how we use our smartphone--unlike Apple, which makes these decisions for us. Certainly, Palm could severely limit the utility of webOS by imposing the kinds of limitations that Apple has historically imposed. Or, they can do as they are--working to overcome the technical issues raised by multitasking while in the meantime giving us a superior if not perfect experience. Personally, I'd opt for Palm's approach any day.

    Really, the biggest issue I think Palm has to solve is battery life. And, that should take care of itself with a new design that provides a larger battery, and new components that have much better efficiencies. And even now, I think that my Pre's battery life is pretty darn good for a device that makes me so productive.
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  18. spare's Avatar
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    #18  
    Vkitty and dandbj,

    Check out PalmSpot videos to see why full multitasking matters. Like before you got your iphone, you had no idea how useful the iphone is until you started seeing it's potential. It's the same with multitasking.

    If nothing else, check out these two videos that show multitasking most everyone would want:





  19. kalex's Avatar
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    #19  
    Wow. nice video. very refreshing to see it side by side. iFail

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