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  1.    #1  
    So, several weeks ago, before the simplified process came out, I overclocked to 800Mhz, and was loving my Pre. Upside: really fast, and great battery life. Downside: If I applied too many heat generating processes (i.e., GPS while car charging or GPS, BT while car charging) I would get the temperature warnings. I think I also got a warning or two, while charging in the car when it was hot outside.

    Then the Superkernel and complimentary CPU Scaling app came out and I implemented that. Now, I can't seem to find the right balance.

    What setting, scaled or set, have you, the discerning Pre using public, had good luck with? Or, have you gotten in the habit of applying certain settings for certain processes? If so, what are the settings and what are you using them for?

    I am looking for a single setting that offers both speed, and long battery life without overheating, for most of my everyday use.

    Then, perhaps one or two other settings for when I do something that might heat the device up too much.

    Also, perhaps someone can explain to me, why, when the Pre first came out, and was locked at 500Mhz, that was blamed, in part, for the poor battery life. So, CPU Scaling was initiated. Now, that 800Mhz is possible, Fixed 800Mhz seems to be the new holy grail, and CPU Scaling (125-800Mhz) is blamed for poor battery life and overheating? But, NOW, it is understood (believed?) that the device accomplishes all its tasks faster, so it can spend more time in idle, thus conserving power and reducing heat.

    1) Where was this "idle" when the Pre showed up locked at 500Mhz?

    2) Why does it benefit the device at 800Mhz in a way it didn't seem to at 500Mhz?

    3) When the device is fixed at 800Mhz, does this mean whatever it is doing is at that speed? So, fast jobs, like a quick lookup or email, don't use much power, but, talking on the phone for an hour, listening to MP3's for an hour or two, or watching a video, or even reading an e-book, will burn through power because the processor is doing everything at 800Mhz?

    4) When using the CPU Scaling app, if you are in the lower/normal speed range for scaled or set speeds (min 125 max 600), and you select the option to turn off scaling, it automatically sets the processor level at 500Mhz with a max speed of 600Mhz and and a minimum speed of 125Mhz (effectively, applying 125-600Mhz scaling -right?). If you go into Uber speeds and then turn off scaling, it sets the processor at 800Mhz, with a max of 800Mhz and a Min of 125 (effectively implementing 125-800Mhz scaling).

    In both cases, the stats show processor usage levels that move about the various frequencies. What does this mean? Is there a degree of processor scaling that is inherent, even with the CPU Scaling/Setting turned off?

    It would help me to understand this.

    Thanks!
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    I am looking for a single setting that offers both speed, and long battery life without overheating, for most of my everyday use.

    Then, perhaps one or two other settings for when I do something that might heat the device up too much.
    The next major version of the Govnah application will have profiles that you can switch between easily. So you could set up one profile with the 'powersave' governor, and another profile with the 'performance' or 'ondemand' governor, and switch between them. We also have future plans for collaborating with the Mode Switcher application so that switching between Govnah profiles can be done automatically based on various triggers.

    Note that the next version of the Uber-Kernel will also have a 'screenstate' governor, which runs the device at your selected maximum speed when the screen is on, and at your selected minimum speed when the screen is off.

    3) When the device is fixed at 800Mhz, does this mean whatever it is doing is at that speed? So, fast jobs, like a quick lookup or email, don't use much power, but, talking on the phone for an hour, listening to MP3's for an hour or two, or watching a video, or even reading an e-book, will burn through power because the processor is doing everything at 800Mhz?
    That is correct. While the CPU is doing things, it will be running at 800MHz.

    When the CPU is idle, then the cpuidle power-down states should come into play. These are handled by the cpuidle part of the kernel, not the cpufreq governors that are controlled by the various CPU scaling applications.

    I don't have good answers for your other questions, unfortunately. I don't believe the behaviour of the various governors and the interactions with webOS are well enough understood to make sweeping generalisations yet.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  3. bennish's Avatar
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    #3  
    cool thanks rod - so does that mean idle powersaving would be active with just the kernel but without having a scaling app? or is it one and the same
  4.    #4  
    Rod,

    Thanks! You were very helpful! I'll look forward to the next version!

    Lee
    Last edited by pelikan3; 04/30/2010 at 01:03 PM.
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  5. #5  
    I've really been enjoying 250-720, good battery life and great performance. I've had a few random luna restarts though, but that could be unrelated.
  6. Rizzen's Avatar
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    #6  
    I'm thinking about Overclocking my pre and your post helped, thanks man.
  7. #7  
    Short of the profiles coming in Govnah, you can use CPUScaler to manually set your CPU speed to prevent overheating when doing a combination of things (Sprint Navigation/GPS, charging, streaming music, mobile hotspot). Dropping back to 500 mhz will allow you to do all those things in parallel with manageable operating temps. When you really push the Pre to its limits constant 800 mhz is not a good thing.

    EDIT: I'm not sure how even "throttling based on need" will address this as running that many things simultaneous is gonig to want as much CPU as possible, and running them at 800 mhz won't make them run better.
    Last edited by Mordbane; 04/30/2010 at 10:30 AM. Reason: After thought and clarification
  8. #8  
    I have the same pronlem with Luna Restarts and I'm scaling 250 to 720mhz.
  9. #9  
    Im diggin unix's compcache kernel. along with a few matches mamouton (sp?) created. phone works like a dream
  10. ujsc's Avatar
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    #10  
    Compcache has caused issues is several users (needed to totally reconfigure phone to fix) as it is very experimental. Use 500 to 800 setting on ultimate with Super Prekernel as 125 and 250 MHz setting freeze Pre and Pre Plus phones. Use super PreKernel as the govanah Uber thing doesn't work as well.
  11. thornev's Avatar
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    #11  
    So here's a question... Do any of these kernels do anything more than set the scaling, governor, threshold, sampling rate, et cetera to different numbers to improve performance, battery life, etc? I'm comfortable with setting those values myself if there's no other reason to have the kernels.

    My biggest concern is OTA, update-safe kernels on my phone so I don't have to uninstall/reinstall every time there is an OTA update. I think I read that UberKernel is OTA update safe, but I don't have the patience to look through hundreds of posts to find the info.

    By the way, ease of install is not a reason for me to use another kernel because I can write a shell script that will do everything I want.

    I'm on Verizon and the 1.4.1.1 update is installing as I type. thorne

    UPDATE - 1.4.1.1 install done, went into PreWare and most of my patches have updates. Thanks to all the developers for creating those updates ! Looks like 50% of my patches are by Jason Robitaille... thanks, Jason !

    HINT for other updaters... some patches require that you FIRST uninstall the older versions before installing the newer versions. I just found that out the hard way that installing the new version first and then uninstalling the older ones can cause the new patches not to work.
    Last edited by thornev; 04/30/2010 at 03:19 PM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ujsc View Post
    Compcache has caused issues is several users (needed to totally reconfigure phone to fix) as it is very experimental. Use 500 to 800 setting on ultimate with Super Prekernel as 125 and 250 MHz setting freeze Pre and Pre Plus phones. Use super PreKernel as the govanah Uber thing doesn't work as well.
    what did it do to ur phone that you needed to "totally reconfigure" it?
  13. delta7's Avatar
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    #13  
    I just installed the superkernel but my phone is stock from the day I got it, don't know which kernel to install to be safe, what should I go for?
  14. #14  
    any of em.... they've all be thoroughly tested. 800 is fun, 720 is just as good
  15. #15  
    I'm using 500-800mhz setting on my Pre. I have experimented with the 250-800mhz setting and got random luna restarts. I think in my opinion 500-800mhz is the sweet spot. My battery life I wish was better but my Pre is sooo much better with the kernal patches.
  16. #16  
    The next major version of the Govnah application will have profiles that you can switch between easily. So you could set up one profile with the 'powersave' governor, and another profile with the 'performance' or 'ondemand' governor, and switch between them. We also have future plans for collaborating with the Mode Switcher application so that switching between Govnah profiles can be done automatically based on various triggers.
    Excellent!

    Once this is done, then presumably custom profiles will be possible, too?
    For example, perhaps a 'tempsafe' profile that would reduce the speed based on the CPU temperature. E.g., 800MHz up to 40C, 720 to 45C, etc, etc.

    Thanx!

    EDIT:
    Obviously that would take some custom programming as well, to use the temperature as trigger points in addition to the others (screen on/off, load, etc).
    Last edited by pslag1; 04/30/2010 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Addition
  17. ujsc's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by brennan7 View Post
    what did it do to ur phone that you needed to "totally reconfigure" it?
    Ask All the people with issues that I read about. I am not that bid to pu anythibg potentially that dangerous on my phone especially since the author states he doesn't make ipk packaging well which we all know is important. Too risk for me sorry.
  18. ujsc's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by delta7 View Post
    I just installed the superkernel but my phone is stock from the day I got it, don't know which kernel to install to be safe, what should I go for?
    I use 720 now just to be safer long term and I only use proven kernels but that's just me
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ujsc View Post
    Ask All the people with issues that I read about. I am not that bid to pu anythibg potentially that dangerous on my phone especially since the author states he doesn't make ipk packaging well which we all know is important. Too risk for me sorry.
    So did you even try it? Or just not do it because of the warnings?


    I've had it installed for a little over a day now, with some other patches to help with TMC errors and i have not had a single issue
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ujsc View Post
    Compcache has caused issues is several users (needed to totally reconfigure phone to fix) as it is very experimental. Use 500 to 800 setting on ultimate with Super Prekernel as 125 and 250 MHz setting freeze Pre and Pre Plus phones. Use super PreKernel as the govanah Uber thing doesn't work as well.
    It's good that you have identified that the Compcache kernel is a bleeding edge experimental kernel and is not recommended for anyone just looking for a simple overclocking solution. That will become suitable for general users when the 'screenstate' governor from the experimental compcache kernel is incorporated into the Uber-Kernel stable release.

    Note that you can configure both the SuperPreKernel and Uber-Kernel to exactly the same governor and CPU scaling parameters, and you will get exactly the same result on an individual device if you do. See http://forums.precentral.net/showpost.php?p=2412077 for the ways that SuperPreKernel and Uber-Kernel are identical when it comes to overclocking performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ujsc View Post
    Ask All the people with issues that I read about. I am not that bid to pu anythibg potentially that dangerous on my phone especially since the author states he doesn't make ipk packaging well which we all know is important. Too risk for me sorry.
    Again, it is very good that you have identified your acceptable level of risk, and acted appropriately. Bleeding-end overclocking experimentation is not recommended for anyone who is not willing to be an alpha tester. Such risk-averse users should continue to use stable kernel releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by ujsc View Post
    I use 720 now just to be safer long term and I only use proven kernels but that's just me
    You might note that there is no internal VDD1 rail voltage difference between running at 600MHz and 720MHz, so it is the case that running at 720MHz is likely to result in less of a reduction of device lifetime compared to running at 800MHz (which is a 0.07v increment above 720MHz).

    I also recommend that anyone who is not involved in alpha testing new overclocking kernel features (such as the 'screenstate' governor which adjusts the speed of your device based on whether the screen is on or not) stick to proven kernels.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals

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