Just curious... what's the big deal about GPS?

[vreihen]

Originally Posted by Cantaffordit

buy a garmin next time

The bottom of my drawer of dead GPS units contains a Garmin GPS-95. It actually survived a fatal plane crash and still worked, but ultimately also crapped out after a few years. Of course, it wasn't consumer-grade, and cost an order of magnitude more than anything they sell in the GPS aisle at Best Buy.

I'm actually going to retrofit the factory navigation option into my wife's current vehicle, because none of the consumer-grade portables that I've seen will stand up to the rigors of daily use for more than a year.....

[jhodnettejr]

Originally Posted by garnetlove

Not everyone has a standalone GPS or wants to purchase one separately for $100+.

It doesn't drain your battery if you use a car charger.
A cheap USB>Car Charger can be had for $3 shipped via Ebay.

I reluctantly pay the 9.99 for VZ Nav to have the functionality for apps and in case I get lost/need directions when I drive occationally.

with minor tweaking you don't have to pay for vz navi anymore...i will say that i do "like" vznav...not $10.m worth tho....

turn off auto locate in location services, turn off the gps radio (hopefully you've added it to the menu) shut-down....then power on, turn on gps and load any of the gps apps mentioned (gpsdashboard, nicegps, mapping tool, trapster) give it a minute and you'll be up and running.

[glynnmi]

Originally Posted by ScorpionSoul

For the record, the GPS on my Pre Plus has never once been able to locate me, neither before nor after updating to 1.4.1.1.

Anyway, I've got apps such as Where and AccuWeather Plus... both work just fine using Google Services.

As for navigation...I've got a Garmin that I paid around $150 for a couple years ago that works perfectly and doesn't drain my phone's battery.

So the question is... what's the big deal about the GPS on the Pre/Pre+? It seems to be one of the biggest complaints about the phone and, maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't get it.

Is there some awesome array of apps out there that we're all missing out on because the GPS doesn't work (or works slowly)??

Well I'm on sprint and the navigator is outstanding. It out performs my in-car GPS in the following ways:

- most updated maps since the maps come form Navteq and are downloaded as needed.

- Traffic Alerts via the web+GPS.

- Web supported GPS lookups. Find restaurant in your area, lookup the reviews and make a reservation all from my phone.

- Mini malls! In-car GPS's have trouble finding stores inside mini malls. The pre takes me to the mall and then follows me out of the car to the front door of the store i'm looking for.

[j59337]

bump

[samecolor]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

GPS on a phone with Google maps is very handy when you are walking around a city.

Agreed. When GPS works right, it actually locks on within seconds. That's right, seconds. Not minutes, no need to scream at it to lock on as we have to with our device!

[Odd-Ball]

Originally Posted by cgokcea

Problem is: Verizon is not locking down ALL their phones. They are only locking down GPS on Pre Plus. GPS works just fine on Droid. Even on Verizon's product pages, if you look at "capabilities" section of Palm Pre Plus and Droid you would see a clear distinction. Verizon is letting Droid go with Google Maps w/Navigation while they try to sell VZ Nav to Pre Plus users. There isn't even a slight mention of Google Maps (with or without navigation) on Pre Plus product page.

I can kind of see why they are doing this. They are giving away Pre Plus for $0-49 and giving away free mobile hotspot on it for a lifetime. So naturally they want people to signup to VZ Nav on Pre Pluses to make up for their loss. It really all comes down to simple mathematics.

The way they go about doing that however is what bothers me. Even their tech support and sales people at their corporate stores can't acknowledge that GPS is crippled/locked down on Pre Pluses. Verizon leads everyone to believe that GPS would work fine on Pre Plus without a subscription to VZ Nav. What that causes is several Pre Pluses being returned to stores (many times brand new ones) for GPS not working. And since Verizon employees are not aware of the fact (or failing to acknowledge) that GPS is crippled on Pre Plus they accept returns cheerfully. That's harming Palm!

As a consumer I have the freedom to switch networks at will. What Verizon is doing doesn't harm me. It harms Palm and that's really the gist of why I'm so ticked off.

I had absolutely no disillusions that VZNav would function free of charge, on my old LG, when I purchased that particular handset. It's people not reading the contract, not reading what costs $ and what doesn't that angers them.

I am in no way defending any corporation but I am merely pointing out the blatantly obvious. If you didn't bother to ask VZ whether the Nav app would cost money who's fault is that?


VZW wouldn't market any handset if they didn't think they could recover their initial costs. They'd be out of business if they did so.

[malpha]

Originally Posted by Odd-Ball

I had absolutely no disillusions that VZNav would function free of charge, on my old LG, when I purchased that particular handset. It's people not reading the contract, not reading what costs $ and what doesn't that angers them.

I am in no way defending any corporation but I am merely pointing out the blatantly obvious. If you didn't bother to ask VZ whether the Nav app would cost money who's fault is that?


VZW wouldn't market any handset if they didn't think they could recover their initial costs. They'd be out of business if they did so.

Uh, there's a difference between knowing VZNav won't work and having the GPS not work for anything else because you don't have VZNav. It shouldn't read VZNav: $10 in that case, it should read: Using the perfectly fine GPS that came with your phone but we crippled: $10.

[Odd-Ball]

Originally Posted by malpha

Uh, there's a difference between knowing VZNav won't work and having the GPS not work for anything else because you don't have VZNav. It shouldn't read VZNav: $10 in that case, it should read: Using the perfectly fine GPS that came with your phone but we crippled: $10.

Again, not really. VZW owns the network that phone utilizes so they can charge whatever they want, or nothing at all.

I'll repeat this one last time: If you choose not to read the contract BEFORE you purchase the phone you really have no argument against VZW.

Watch this PrePlus video and tell me where anything is missing:

PrePlus for Verizon WirelessYouTube - VerizonWireless Palm Pre Plus Commercial


I see the disclaimer below listing the ETF, and a mention of charges too.

Sorry, I don't see the issue.

[creepycat]

Originally Posted by tallarob

Lot's of apps like:
1. Where's My Pre?
2. Golf Pin Finder
3. Accuweather
4. Find My Car
5. Yelp

Many, many more that utilize location services

It's not necessary, but a great convenience. If all the other phones have it, we want ours as well!

i've just discovered geocaching and my daughter is so excited to go find "treasure" that we are going to make a couple caches ourselves and put our signed art and fiction in for others to trade trinkets for.

the other app i just found, and LOVE, is the Smartrunner which uses gps to track your exact exercise route to share with friends and the distance, speed, approx calories burned of your workout and then you can save it and get it from the main website for your doc or trainer or whatever. great to encourage my lazy teen and also track my performance and improvements/goals met, etc.

then the ultimate friend of all americans is Trapster. a "warning" to others of police speed traps, check points, traffic cams, accidents, etc as they happen. its been around multiplatform for a while but you used to have to hand enter the location. now there's tons of menus and a call in # that transcribes your warning and uses your gps location to warn others in the area. and it alarms us when entering a warning posted by someone else. how is THAT for community?

and of course, Sprint Navigation, free turn by turn service is awesome.

[SportingLions]

Originally Posted by ADGrant

GPS on a phone with Google maps is very handy when you are walking around a city.

+1, specially in huge cities.

[malpha]

Originally Posted by Odd-Ball

Again, not really. VZW owns the network that phone utilizes so they can charge whatever they want, or nothing at all.

Um, yes. Really. I'm not sitting here stating that Verizon cannot charge whatever they want - I am merely pointing out that they should be CLEAR about what incurs a charge. Obviously Verizon can charge whatever, which is why I stated they hampered the GPS capabilities that come manufactured into the phone so that they COULD charge for it.

Originally Posted by Odd-Ball

I'll repeat this one last time: If you choose not to read the contract BEFORE you purchase the phone you really have no argument against VZW.

Watch this PrePlus video and tell me where anything is missing:

PrePlus for Verizon WirelessYouTube - VerizonWireless Palm Pre Plus Commercial


I see the disclaimer below listing the ETF, and a mention of charges too.

Sorry, I don't see the issue.

Your argument is a commercial? A commercial? That commercial also doesn't mention the free mobile hotspot, and yet...there it is. Yes, there is A commercial that mentions that, but the point is that a single commercial shouldn't be taken to mention all the features of a phone.

Since you live and die by this contract a better rebuttal would be for you to pull up the section of the contract that states they charge you to use the GPS or that without VZ Navigator, the GPS will not work. As someone who isn't a VZ customer and cannot find the contract, all I can find is a description of the Navigator as an APPLICATION that is listed as separate from the Pre Plus's feature of Assisted and Standlone GPS. But since you apparently have been a VZW customer and have reportedly read the contract, please, point out the relevant section and there won't be any need to argue about it anymore.

[Odd-Ball]

Originally Posted by malpha

Um, yes. Really. I'm not sitting here stating that Verizon cannot charge whatever they want - I am merely pointing out that they should be CLEAR about what incurs a charge. Obviously Verizon can charge whatever, which is why I stated they hampered the GPS capabilities that come manufactured into the phone so that they COULD charge for it.



Your argument is a commercial? A commercial? That commercial also doesn't mention the free mobile hotspot, and yet...there it is. Yes, there is A commercial that mentions that, but the point is that a single commercial shouldn't be taken to mention all the features of a phone.

Since you live and die by this contract a better rebuttal would be for you to pull up the section of the contract that states they charge you to use the GPS or that without VZ Navigator, the GPS will not work. As someone who isn't a VZ customer and cannot find the contract, all I can find is a description of the Navigator as an APPLICATION that is listed as separate from the Pre Plus's feature of Assisted and Standlone GPS. But since you apparently have been a VZW customer and have reportedly read the contract, please, point out the relevant section and there won't be any need to argue about it anymore.

Yeah, the argument was a commercial because i'm not going to head to a VZW store and demonstrate to you they have rates listed for their value added services.

I'm not doing your homework for you. When I had my LG I saw the VZ Nav and said "Hey, I might like this. What does VZW charge for this?" ...and I looked then signed up for it.

You're trying to make up for your own shortcomings (not reading the signs, brochures and the like) by stating something you particularly appreciate should be free.

Are you so naive to think any company would part with precious advert dollars to describe, in detail, the exact nature of charges for one tiny facet of their service and tell you they're crippling a particular feature? Coming from VZW for so many years I knew for quite some time they crippled their handsets. It's the way they do business and now you act is if it's something new. It isn't.

They can cripple anything they like, which sucks of course, but there's nothing you can do about it, short of switching to Sprint.

[GenericMusings]

Originally Posted by vreihen

... It gets old real quick to have to take down the GPS mount, hide it, and carry the unit wherever you go. ...

This is why I use Sprint Nav when I'm at work and don't carry around my Navigon unitasker GPS. I drive a company car around the city (I work for the city, they have offices EVERYWHERE) and it's too much of a pain to set it up, wait for it to boot, then get a lock, pull up the address, and calculate the route each and every time I need to drive somewhere. Sprint Nav is a bit idiosyncratic at times, but it can usually pull up a route 5x faster than my stand alone as well as having the convenience of being able to pick it up and carry it with me with out all the set up/pull down hassle.

[imop45]

You're missing the point. Lets say Verizon charged you extra to use a "Premium phone dialer application." You already have a phone app, but for $10 more you can get a fancier better phone appication.
now, because you don't really care enough to pay that $10 you don't buy it.
And because of that, you can't make any calls longer than 5 mins, and coverage would decrease significantly. Now, VZ never told you that if you don't buy our OPTIONAL premium phone APPLICATION, that voice services would be crippled. Therefore, for a SERVICE to be used, you basically are forced to buy an app.

SERVICES AND APLICATIONS ARE 2 VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

In know way should a "premium" application grant access to normal services, unless specifically told so, which they don't.

same with text messaging. If they tried to sell you a fancy super advanced msg app for $10 and you didn't buy it, they can't decide to send only half your text msgs without notifying you.

Originally Posted by Odd-Ball

Yeah, the argument was a commercial because i'm not going to head to a VZW store and demonstrate to you they have rates listed for their value added services.

I'm not doing your homework for you. When I had my LG I saw the VZ Nav and said "Hey, I might like this. What does VZW charge for this?" ...and I looked then signed up for it.

You're trying to make up for your own shortcomings (not reading the signs, brochures and the like) by stating something you particularly appreciate should be free.

Are you so naive to think any company would part with precious advert dollars to describe, in detail, the exact nature of charges for one tiny facet of their service and tell you they're crippling a particular feature? Coming from VZW for so many years I knew for quite some time they crippled their handsets. It's the way they do business and now you act is if it's something new. It isn't.

They can cripple anything they like, which sucks of course, but there's nothing you can do about it, short of switching to Sprint.

[Cantaffordit]

Originally Posted by ScorpionSoul

For the record, the GPS on my Pre Plus has never once been able to locate me, neither before nor after updating to 1.4.1.1.

Anyway, I've got apps such as Where and AccuWeather Plus... both work just fine using Google Services.

As for navigation...I've got a Garmin that I paid around $150 for a couple years ago that works perfectly and doesn't drain my phone's battery.

So the question is... what's the big deal about the GPS on the Pre/Pre+? It seems to be one of the biggest complaints about the phone and, maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't get it.

Is there some awesome array of apps out there that we're all missing out on because the GPS doesn't work (or works slowly)??

In trying to help another user, I seemed to experience this issue for the first time. However, the "innacuracy" of the GPS wasn't as surprising as the fact that it wasn't innacurate at all - but rather was pointing very accurately to where I had been the previous day... Instead of clogging up this thread, here is where I posted my results. I hope some of you will try the same steps and report back your results. If we can demonstrate to Google (or whoever causes the problem) we will have better odds at getting a fix...

http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2420455

[Odd-Ball]

Originally Posted by imop45

You're missing the point. Lets say Verizon charged you extra to use a "Premium phone dialer application." You already have a phone app, but for $10 more you can get a fancier better phone appication.
now, because you don't really care enough to pay that $10 you don't buy it.
And because of that, you can't make any calls longer than 5 mins, and coverage would decrease significantly. Now, VZ never told you that if you don't buy our OPTIONAL premium phone APPLICATION, that voice services would be crippled. Therefore, for a SERVICE to be used, you basically are forced to buy an app.

SERVICES AND APLICATIONS ARE 2 VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

In know way should a "premium" application grant access to normal services, unless specifically told so, which they don't.

same with text messaging. If they tried to sell you a fancy super advanced msg app for $10 and you didn't buy it, they can't decide to send only half your text msgs without notifying you.

No, i'm not missing the point at all. You're manufacturing an argument to suit your position. And the dialer is a core app, not a value added feature.

Finally, for the umpteenth time; Why does someone purchase a phone or anything with these capabilities, whether implied or otherwise and NOT check to see if they actually work before you sign the contract? Why didn't someone ask if "x" feature works without paying for it..etc? And if a VZW rep did mis-speak hang them with those words and demand to get out of the contract if its that much of a deal breaker to you.

Blaming VZW for the shortcomings of the customers and their failure to perform a complete test is not a valid indictment against VZW. I despise them as a carrier for their nickel and dime crap but I bailed and went to Sprint.

[imop45]

bc the reps do not tell you. I'm not even sure if anyone even will acknowldge this problem.

and yes, it is a core service tat is touted a feature regardless of buying a premium application.

[imop45]

look brotha, assisted and standalone GPS is listed as a feature, and as a separate feature is says VZ navigation(sm) capable. Those are 2 distiguished features, separate from eachother.

and there is no astricks, no footnotes, no fine print, no clauses that mention GPS not working fully without paying extra for a little app.

even the fine print in the commercials do not mention that. CS/Tech support/ CS managers will not acknowledge that it's crippled without buying an optional little app.

this contract clauses that specifically mentions GPS crippling does not exist. Therefore, either it's a purposeful manipulation of software/hardware api's on VZ part, or there is a issue from Palm and Verizon that is accidental. Seeing as those that have paid $10 for an app still have problems, I am going with the later.

you don't are to do research on any of this, but say I am fabricating an argument. I've done research and have presented facts, not opinions.

and yeah some people do stupid things, just like you have, like we all have. Hopefully people have learned about their contracts a little more, even though GPS manipulation by not paying for a little app is not mentioned on any publicly available document coming from verizon (meaning press releases, ontracts, support documents, etc although it could be in private documents like tech support docs (internal) or developer documentation.)

[imop45]

Verizon listing a feature as a selling point when they do not support it is against the FCC. It a feature is broken, then it is their duty to take are of the situation, whether that means fixing it or at least providing some sort of documention.

there is no documentation, that's the problem. Not even in the contract.

do you even know how much extra $ it would take to distrivute a "special" contract just for the Palm Pre Plus?

[malpha]

There's little point in arguing. As someone who claims VZW specifically charges for proper use of the GPS, the burden of proof is on him - not anyone else's homework. In the end, Verizon is required by the FCC to have every handset on its network be GPS-capable, whether that GPS is able to be used for navigational purposes or not, for the express purpose of emergency location. If the Pre Plus is not accurately reporting the location of a phone using the GPS unless the user is paying Verizon an extra fee to do so, Verizon is at fault.