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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    Ok, you're explaining it a bit better but the anger and resentment that VZW had the temerity to charge you for a "free" service isn't based in fact.

    You're trying to split hairs here but I'd suggest you go attack VZW for their policies rather than trying to explain to me the intricacies of GPS. I'm aware of Sprint's and VZW's pricing plans as I had navigation on VZW and have it on Sprint. Call it whatever you want; if you want free GPS design and build a receiver and software capable of mapping your location. Would you feel better if VZW just charged $10/month and buried it in the monthly rate?

    As for the ability to use GPS for free, again, they can charge whatever they want and they're not charging for GPS but even if they were its irrelevant. You have the option to not pay for it. And good luck proving they are guilty of criminal greed. They provide the handset and offer other value added services or features for a price. You're just angry they lock down their phones so much. Hence, thats why I left VZW.
    Problem is: Verizon is not locking down ALL their phones. They are only locking down GPS on Pre Plus. GPS works just fine on Droid. Even on Verizon's product pages, if you look at "capabilities" section of Palm Pre Plus and Droid you would see a clear distinction. Verizon is letting Droid go with Google Maps w/Navigation while they try to sell VZ Nav to Pre Plus users. There isn't even a slight mention of Google Maps (with or without navigation) on Pre Plus product page.

    I can kind of see why they are doing this. They are giving away Pre Plus for $0-49 and giving away free mobile hotspot on it for a lifetime. So naturally they want people to signup to VZ Nav on Pre Pluses to make up for their loss. It really all comes down to simple mathematics.

    The way they go about doing that however is what bothers me. Even their tech support and sales people at their corporate stores can't acknowledge that GPS is crippled/locked down on Pre Pluses. Verizon leads everyone to believe that GPS would work fine on Pre Plus without a subscription to VZ Nav. What that causes is several Pre Pluses being returned to stores (many times brand new ones) for GPS not working. And since Verizon employees are not aware of the fact (or failing to acknowledge) that GPS is crippled on Pre Plus they accept returns cheerfully. That's harming Palm!

    As a consumer I have the freedom to switch networks at will. What Verizon is doing doesn't harm me. It harms Palm and that's really the gist of why I'm so ticked off.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by cgokcea View Post
    They are only locking down GPS on Pre Plus.
    Before we really cast VZW to the wolves for "locking down GPS on the Pre Plus", we truly do not know if it not working well is because of something VZW did (or rather, requested Palm to do), or if it is a faulty manufacturing process or chip.

    The only carrier that has the Pre Plus, for now, is VZW and that is where we see the plethora of problems. Sure, some Sprint Pres have had similar issues, but not seemingly to the extent that Pre Plus' have have the issue.

    I see absolutely no business gain for VZW to lock down GPS on the Pre Plus. Sure they want to sell their navigator product, but there currently is no competition in the marketplace on VZW phones for that. I don't see why they would want their users to suffer the pains of not being able to use all the GPS enabled applications out there.
  3. #43  
    The phone is advertised and marketed as having GPS.
  4. #44  
    Did they market it as having "FREE GPS"? Because we know nothing with Verizon comes free.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  5. #45  
    Palm markets it as having GPS. One of the big selling points for the device.

    I don't get too worked up when my phone can't do some things for me (e.g. take professional quality photos), but I don't know of many phones that do take professional quality photos. However, GPS is almost a basic function of smartphones these days. I see friends who have GPS that works flawlessly on both the Droid (w/o VZ Navigator) and the iPhone. Why can't Palm do the same?
  6. #46  
    I supposed I'm just old fashioned, but when a company markets a product, I expect that it will do everything they say it does. If you bought a brand new car and got on the road only to find out it didn't have a functioning stereo, would that be a big deal? After all, with MP3 players and all that these days, your car doesn't REALLY need a radio. Of course you'd be upset and you'd have that car back at the dealer as soon as you found out the radio didn't work, requesting that it be repaired/replaced.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Before we really cast VZW to the wolves for "locking down GPS on the Pre Plus", we truly do not know if it not working well is because of something VZW did (or rather, requested Palm to do), or if it is a faulty manufacturing process or chip.

    The only carrier that has the Pre Plus, for now, is VZW and that is where we see the plethora of problems. Sure, some Sprint Pres have had similar issues, but not seemingly to the extent that Pre Plus' have have the issue.

    I see absolutely no business gain for VZW to lock down GPS on the Pre Plus. Sure they want to sell their navigator product, but there currently is no competition in the marketplace on VZW phones for that. I don't see why they would want their users to suffer the pains of not being able to use all the GPS enabled applications out there.
    i can tell you that GPS apps (google, mapping tool, nicegpssuperior, gpsdashbrd) only access the GPS for me on the Pre + with VZ Navi open. VZW recently offered 30days for free access to VZ nav...of course now i get a feeling for why.....they've lost tons of vz nav cash to android devices by letting them use google maps et al....
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    i can tell you that GPS apps (google, mapping tool, nicegpssuperior, gpsdashbrd) only access the GPS for me on the Pre + with VZ Navi open. VZW recently offered 30days for free access to VZ nav...of course now i get a feeling for why.....they've lost tons of vz nav cash to android devices by letting them use google maps et al....
    I keep reading that users have this happen, but I've never seen it 0 and I've never opened the VZ Navigator app.

    The only thing unusual about my Pre from a GPS standpoint is that I have the patch that actually hids the VZ Navigator icon so my kids don't open it and inadvertently get that service added to my bill.

    Can buy a really awesome Garmin GPS for much less than what VZ wants to charge for the life of the contract and still have money left over.

    Have you tried hiding the VZ navigator app? Is it possible that I would have the same issue if I had ever opened/activated my VZ Navigator? I also have location services default to off (to save battery) so when I open up Google Maps or other location-based apps, I get a prompt whether I want to allow it to access the GPS radio. That is what actually turns the GPS radio on. You might want to try that...

    I just can't believe that this could be such a pervasive issue with no input from Palm or the homebrew guys.

    You might also want to send a private message to hard beatz on this forum, and he works for Palm support. Also visit the palm.com support forum to see if anyone has answered/asked the question...

    I don't want to use the phone for my GPS, but I like Google Latitude, Yelp, etc so I want my location to be accurate.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Have you tried hiding the VZ navigator app? Is it possible that I would have the same issue if I had ever opened/activated my VZ Navigator? I also have location services default to off (to save battery) so when I open up Google Maps or other location-based apps, I get a prompt whether I want to allow it to access the GPS radio. That is what actually turns the GPS radio on. You might want to try that...
    i used vz navi old my old LG dare so i was inclined to try it for free (30 days). it's not worth $10/m thats for sure....

    i have my location settings like this: auto locate-on locate me using-GPS (not google services) geotag photos-off i also installed one of the device menu remixes that has the GPS toggle. I may try auto locate-off, if that fails then i'll try hiding vznavi..after my free 30 days of course.,.

    it just seems that there is certainly an internal struggle for my pre to operate gps apps w/o vz navi loaded.
  10. #50  
    I was almost late to an interview this morning when my Sprint Nav GPS signal did not want to locate my destination. Shame on me for leaving something so important in the hands of an iffy device app.
  11. #51  
    so....turned off auto location and gps in device menu...shut down... Turned on gpsdashboard...allowed acces...BAM!.... Then opened google maps...BAM! Working perfectly! Haha...looks like I can cancel vznav!!

    edit- I did have to turn on GPS on device menu first...but autolocate is off...i think that's where the issue lies...
    Last edited by jhodnettejr; 04/30/2010 at 06:36 PM.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    so....turned off auto location and gps in device menu...shut down... Turned on gpsdashboard...allowed acces...BAM!.... Then opened google maps...BAM! Working perfectly! Haha...looks like I can cancel vznav!!

    edit- I did have to turn on GPS on device menu first...but autolocate is off...i think that's where the issue lies...
    I cconfirm. This seems to have worked, but I am not getting my hopes up. So many times I think I finally fixed it just to have it stop working later.
  13. vreihen's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrNolan View Post
    I was almost late to an interview this morning when my Sprint Nav GPS signal did not want to locate my destination. Shame on me for leaving something so important in the hands of an iffy device app.
    On 4/15, I was on a business trip to the Fenway area of Boston. Sprint Navigation froze up my phone. After several minutes of waiting in pre-rush hour traffic for the phone to reboot, Sprint Navigation then threw an error that it couldn't connect to their server. Fortunately, I saw how it was trying to direct me onto I-90 before it locked up, so I did a bit of dead reckoning and managed to find an on-ramp. Ask me why I now have Navit with huge map files installed on both my work Sprint Pre and my personal Pre Plus.

    Regarding a standalone GPS unit, some people (not me) work or live in bad neighborhoods. If they left one mounted on the windshield of their parked car, dollars to donuts it would be gone before they returned. It gets old real quick to have to take down the GPS mount, hide it, and carry the unit wherever you go.

    My personal experience with standalone GPS units is that they suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch ball. I have to buy my wife a new one every 6 months for her job, because the old ones flake out and refuse to boot up properly. Oh, the joys of Windows Mobile embedded into cheezy, consumer-grade hardware! I have a Magellan and a Navigon unit sitting in a drawer that will only boot up and function properly maybe 33% of the time, and that's not an acceptable SLA in my books from a device that you're counting on to get you some place.

    They seem to sense when you need them most, and then crap out at that exact moment. When I was on a cross-country trip last year, our GPS-du-jour at the time froze up as we were passing through Chicago. The manufacturer put a nice, 4-hour battery in that unit...and no reset switch. Rather than wait 4 hours to find out if running the battery down would reset it, I flung it out the window against a concrete Jersey barrier on I-94 and drove the rest of the way home to New York (state) without a map. One less POS to clutter up the flaky GPS drawer!

    Long story short, if I have to carry a cell phone anyway, it might as well kill two birds with one stone and serve as a backup GPS unit as well. With the track record that I have had with standalone GPS devices, you can't have enough backup units at your fingertips. Personally, I'm banking on Navit on both of my Pre's from now on.....
  14. #54  
    buy a garmin next time
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    so....turned off auto location and gps in device menu...shut down... Turned on gpsdashboard...allowed acces...BAM!.... Then opened google maps...BAM! Working perfectly! Haha...looks like I can cancel vznav!!

    edit- I did have to turn on GPS on device menu first...but autolocate is off...i think that's where the issue lies...
    glad this worked for you... did not work for me....
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    1) Well, let's take a simple answer -- not everyone has that couple year old $150 Garmin in their car, nor do they want to buy one when the fancy new phone they just got claimed it will work like a Garmin.

    2) Your Garmin works great in YOUR car, but what happens when you are with a buddy who doesn't have a Garmin and you need to know how to get somewhere?

    3) Your Garmin works great in your CAR, but what happens when you are on the golf course and want to know how far it is to carry the lake and not hit the bunker behind the green? GolfPinFinder rocks!!!

    4) Tagging pictures with GPS coordinates opens up all sorts of possibilities with photo album software.

    5) You're right, Google Services works great when you need a "general location" (like a zip code for weather, etc.), but when you need more detailed location for things like Geocaching, just know you are in a town is not going to help you find that cache!

    6) I rent a lot of cars (part of my job), and sorry to say buy many have speedometers that are way off -- so, I use GPS Dashboard to know exactly how fast I am going via GPS.

    7) GeoStrings -- location based reminders! Always forget the Tuesday is "Wing Tuesdays" at BWW? Set a reminder so that when you are near BWW and it is a Tuesday that your phone reminds you of this promotion.

    8) Ever find that perfect fishing hole out in the middle of the lake and want to find your way back? "Go To Tool" is an excellent way of setting and sharing GPS locations. It isn't all about driving you know!!

    9) Family Locator service (Sprint), want to know where your 16 year old son is at 11:30pm when he was supposed to be home at 10 pm? Send out a location request and know right where he his. (Of course my son does not have a Pre ;-), but his phone works with GPS too, and if he does get a Pre he will still be able to use this).

    10) Of course, because its cool!! So many GPS devices are expensive (Car devices, golf satellite things, hiking tools, etc.), why not take advantage of the one that comes with your phone!!!

    Oh well, if you like it you will use it, if you don't, know that it is always there when you need to call 911.

    I have Sprint service and my GPS has been outstanding since day 1, I really feel bad for VZW people who have yet to see decent GPS at all. I only hope this latest release fixes those issues for them so they get as excited as I am!!!
    Ditto! Fortunately, my GPS on Sprint works well, and has worked well from day one. I use it for all kinds of apps. I love it when I am trying to find a place close to where I am, when I am out of town, finding cupons for restarants that are close, Sprint Nav with traffic, the list goes on. The GPS is one of the reasons I got the Pre!!!
  17. japark's Avatar
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    #57  
    Google service is fine when it works. But Google without GPS thinks I am in Oxford, Miss. instead of Jackson, TN.

    GPS is good when you don't have a dedicated Garmin, etc. or when you don't have your Garmin handy and you have a free application like Sprint Navigation. I also have several applications which require GPS and are rather handy. For example, I have an app called FitTrack which can tell me how far I have walked/run during exercise and my average speed.
  18. #58  
    I have a Garmin and see no use in having a hand held GPS myself. Not saying it would not be for someone else though.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhodnettejr View Post
    so....turned off auto location and gps in device menu...shut down... Turned on gpsdashboard...allowed acces...BAM!.... Then opened google maps...BAM! Working perfectly! Haha...looks like I can cancel vznav!!

    edit- I did have to turn on GPS on device menu first...but autolocate is off...i think that's where the issue lies...
    oh s@@@@ it does work! pin points my location! but will do drive test, thats where my pre is going nuts.

    i have purchased full app for 1.99 if anyone wonders if this will fix it i will let you know. i just hope verizon is not going to lock it again.
  20. mordy07's Avatar
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    #60  
    Although the GPS isn't the most consistent thing in the world, it's worked for me 90% of the time (on VZW). I've never used the VZ navigator, mostly because Google maps has worked well for what I need so far. I've also used many other GPS-using apps such as minimap, Smart Runner, GPS dashboard, Trapster, GolfPinFinder, and a variety of weather and information apps. Some apps definitely seem to need more time than others to acquire a signal, but it usually ends up working.

    I wouldn't be too happy if it didn't work, especially if it cut out when I really needed it (new city, new golf course, whatever). But like I said, thankfully mine has worked relatively well so far.
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