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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    It's not just the advertising for the specific device, Palm has no brand value outside of 30-40 somethings who remember having a palm pilot. The company got lazy and coasted and now it's an unknown outside of the USA and by nerds like us.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's not just the advertising for the specific device, Palm has no brand value outside of 30-40 somethings who remember having a palm pilot. The company got lazy and coasted and now it's an unknown outside of the USA and by nerds like us.
    This pretty much sums it up. It's all marketing and the results of poor Palm marketing/ad in the past (especially in Europe) is now catching up to them. Of course, proper marketing/ad costs lots of money and now Palm is in a position where they must be very careful where that money goes. If they're smart, and I think they are, they will invest in getting their current inventory out the door (which they are), supporting/updating/maturing their current software (which they are), addressing any build quality issues (seems like they have), light advertising/sales training focused on their current advantages (i.e. multitasking) and eventually releasing new hardware in the not-so-distant future.

    Hope they have enough $$ to do all of that!
  3. cgk
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by vortmax View Post
    This pretty much sums it up. It's all marketing and the results of poor Palm marketing/ad in the past (especially in Europe) is now catching up to them. Of course, proper marketing/ad costs lots of money and now Palm is in a position where they must be very careful where that money goes. If they're smart, and I think they are, they will invest in getting their current inventory out the door (which they are), supporting/updating/maturing their current software (which they are), addressing any build quality issues (seems like they have), light advertising/sales training focused on their current advantages (i.e. multitasking) and eventually releasing new hardware in the not-so-distant future.

    Hope they have enough $$ to do all of that!
    The other problem is that it was priced at the same point as the iphone, a terrible mistake. No average consumer who was willing to go on the premium price plans is going to the "palm what?" phone over the iphone, not in the UK at least.
  4. #24  
    I'm not surprised sales are low for O2.

    It has hardly any presence on the website. Was pleased to see a good display in my local showroom but in another nearby one...all there were, were two empty touchstones on display.

    It's all iPhone iPhone *yawn*

    (even though it is such a good deal they are offering with the Pre)
  5. #25  
    Like mikah912 wrote, the essence of what I said is the Pre is perceived as being outdated. And Palm has been slow and ineffective in developments. Never mind the the actual improvements. It's the perception that matters.

    One hears of new Android devices everyday. There are announcements on WM devices and even Symbian devices too. I don't know how many new Blackberry devices that were announced in the past one year.

    But with Palm it's the same old thing. Never mind the Pixi and the "+" variants. Clearly the advertising and marketing effort has failed. Another thing, the Pre is never perceived as a mainstream phone (like Blackberry, for example), it's a one-off, exotic, iffy device with weird features. An experimental project, if you will. Palm's constant flirting with bankruptcy is no help.

    Palm did start off the launch with a great phone, and did emphasize that the Pre was a mainstream, business phone. But there is a gap between what Palm wanted to communicate and the market perception. I know of at least one Palm fan here who waited (and waited) and longed for the Pre and it's exciting features. He was forced to give up and move on to Blackberry because his business couldn't wait and his patience ran out.
    Game over!
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    #26  
    Im with GreenHex on this, for a European the Pre is old news.

    I love mine and think its great but you have to consider we heard about the Pre back in jan -09. Waited for 6 months until it just launched in the US. Waited a few months more but no launch in august.

    When it finally got released in mid october it was just to 3 or 4 countries out of the 27 in Europe.

    Still to this date it can't be bought here in Sweden, a country that adapts new tech instantly. Instead the Android sailed up as iPhone contender and sell like hot cakes.

    The Pre and weOS in particular is awesome but let's face it, the international launch seems like a big time failure.

    Palm have missed the boat with the Pre but perhaps it was never intended for a bigger market. Hopefully its just a springboard to get webOS up and going and the next gen device will be up to the job?

    Lets hope they can stay afloat until the next boat passes.
    Last edited by Andreas; 04/28/2010 at 05:12 AM.
  7. dr3wster's Avatar
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    #27  
    You've all made some awesome points, so I'm just going to try add a few to each ...


    Quote Originally Posted by SqyArc View Post
    Palm doesn't have to conquer the market in order to survive and thrive. The longer WebOS is around and the more devices run it, the more people will start to use it.
    The sooner Palm realises that even though it is filled with ex-Apple Execs it is NOT Apple, and doesn't have the deep pockets that Apple does, AND doesn't need to try out-do Apple, the better it will do. IMO the company as a whole can be more focused...

    Trying to be an iphone killer, just isn't going to work ... the iphone and Apple brands are far too well-developed, and owning the iphone is considered the "cool" thing to do.. All Palm can do, is be different, and hope that there is some portion of the market that is not entirely satisfied with the current market offerings...

    From memory, Palm's current target market consists of those not satisfied with either the iPhone or the Blackberry... a market which I do believe exists.. unfortunately, in its present form the Pre doesn't quick satisfy this niche market..

    It doesn't allow users worldwide to purchase apps / music with ease out of the box, nor does it do e-mail nearly as well as the Blackberry...


    Quote Originally Posted by SqyArc View Post
    These things take time I guess.
    I agree completely ... the downside is Palm may not have a lot of time left. Elevation says they are looking at a 10 yr investment, but we all know that a company can only lose money for so long before cutting its ties. Still, 2010 is a year of great promise.. The release of long-awaited Camera/MIC APIs should spur app development, and the promise by CEO Ruby of "fast and furious" development of a "strong pipeline" of products sounds super promising. Remember, Apple was in a similar position before Ruby helped Steve Jobs bring to market products such as the ipod and imac, which helped turn things around.. Have hope people!




    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's not just the advertising for the specific device, Palm has no brand value outside of 30-40 somethings who remember having a palm pilot. The company got lazy and coasted and now it's an unknown outside of the USA and by nerds like us.
    Spot on... except for the coasting bit. If you ever get the chance, have a read of the biography of the company entitled "Piloting Palm" (do a Google Search).. fascinating read. Goes into great depths about how Palm was born and how it bombed out.

    IN SHORT, the problem was not coasting, but a combination of two things:
    1. Corporate Politics associated with numerous changes in ownerships (USR > 3Com etc)
    2. Jeff Hawkins made a slight hiccup before coming back in style with the first ever smartphone - the legendary Treo (the minor hiccup was that as competitors from the Pocket PC/Windows Mobile camp were adding new features such as MP3 playback, color screens, etc he firmly believed simplicity would rein true ... this set-back R&D a bit)...




    Quote Originally Posted by Berath View Post
    I'm not surprised sales are low for O2.

    It has hardly any presence on the website. Was pleased to see a good display in my local showroom but in another nearby one...all there were, were two empty touchstones on display.

    It's all iPhone iPhone *yawn*

    (even though it is such a good deal they are offering with the Pre)
    Sad, but true. I've tried so hard to sell people on the idea of getting a Palm Pre instead of a iphone, but even though I show them all the cool features (Synergy etc), the iPhone brand is just far too strong... gotta differentiate somehow!!



    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    Like mikah912 wrote, the essence of what I said is the Pre is perceived as being outdated. And Palm has been slow and ineffective in developments. Never mind the the actual improvements. It's the perception that matters.

    One hears of new Android devices everyday. There are announcements on WM devices and even Symbian devices too. I don't know how many new Blackberry devices that were announced in the past one year.

    But with Palm it's the same old thing. Never mind the Pixi and the "+" variants. Clearly the advertising and marketing effort has failed. Another thing, the Pre is never perceived as a mainstream phone (like Blackberry, for example), it's a one-off, exotic, iffy device with weird features. An experimental project, if you will. Palm's constant flirting with bankruptcy is no help.

    Palm did start off the launch with a great phone, and did emphasize that the Pre was a mainstream, business phone. But there is a gap between what Palm wanted to communicate and the market perception. I know of at least one Palm fan here who waited (and waited) and longed for the Pre and it's exciting features. He was forced to give up and move on to Blackberry because his business couldn't wait and his patience ran out.

    @Greenhex.. I definitely see your points and agree to a certain degree.. The fact that a company is close to bankruptcy / being sold, is enough to put a lot of customers off ... esp. from a warranty standpoint.

    Please remember that Palm is only tiny and has very limited resources... the steady stream of WinMo and Android devices comes from the fact that both platforms are being licensed by a number of hardware device manufacturers, whereas OSes such as webOS, iPhone OS and Blackberry OS are not licensed out currently... so its inevitable that we will always be hearing about WinMo and Android devices..




    Anyways, in sum, yes, we all do want Palm to succeed, because we know what the innovative crew is capable of, and can't really bear the thought of such a forward-looking company being closed down. This is exactly why we're all discussing such issues in depth and sniping at each other's comments.. even though it's not a personal attack.. i know i'm gon cop some!

    A lot of Palm's recent failures does, unfortunately come down to marketing decisions (eg. Ads, timing of releases, carrier / app store strategies etc.) ... fortunately, Palm has made some steps to rectify these blunders.. let's hope the new products bring things completely unseen before (not just higher specs than whatever other phone is currently in the marketplace).. let's also hope that Palm uses its limited resources wisely..

    Thanks you guys for being so passionate about the company to care to even post!
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