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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    I'm already a Ple Plus owner, so the launch at AT&T only affects me in terms of Palm's future. Now, if the launch at AT&T is successful enough and they get the device in enough new hands, could that lead to increased app development, which could in turn lead to more Pre Plus devices being sold, etc?
    Agreed! I think it's a good thing for us. It would surely spur increased development and prolonged webOS lifespan. I'm for it.
  2. #22  
    actually there last chance will be when they release new hardware on Big Yellow.. And they already dropped the ball with the 4g because I feel that alone would have helped alot.. Being the firdt 4g phone available in america, now htc and that wack android will receive all the spotlight..
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I don't see it happening..selling better than previous US launches that is. Sprint offered free navigation and cheaper monthly plans. Verizon offered hotspot app and now has made it free in addition to aggressively cutting the price.

    AT&T has done...well...nothing. A yellow pages app? And will charge for their version of sprint nav. Plus they're planning on charging 149 initially.

    Smartphone competition is more than just the iphone, which by itself is pretty significant considering the time of year. But Nexus is available. Samsung Galaxy S is thought to be coming soon but still not confirmed by AT&T.
    Since the Galaxy S has been approved by the FCC for AT&T's 3G bands, and AT&T is the ONLY domestic carrier using those particular GSM radio bands, it's a lock. But who really cares about them getting Xperia X10, Galaxy or whatever. They have iPhone 4G for just $50 more than the Palm Pre Plus. It will be promoted more on TV and in stores, and it will be far more available.

    I cannot imagine AT&T has ordered a huge quantity of WebOS devices after seeing what happened with Verizon.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Since the Galaxy S has been approved by the FCC for AT&T's 3G bands, and AT&T is the ONLY domestic carrier using those particular GSM radio bands, it's a lock. But who really cares about them getting Xperia X10, Galaxy or whatever. They have iPhone 4G for just $50 more than the Palm Pre Plus. It will be promoted more on TV and in stores, and it will be far more available.

    I cannot imagine AT&T has ordered a huge quantity of WebOS devices after seeing what happened with Verizon.
    Isn't it iPhone OS 4.0?
  5. gbp
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeep View Post
    Not everybody want games. I want productive apps from big developers or kind of big developers.
    Sure I want productivity apps, but its not about both of us, majority of iPhone users are big on games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Pricing will drive this competition with consumers. The iPhone is already firmly entrenched in most consumer's heads. The Pre will have to overcome that.

    For the techies, the recent news that AT&T is in 3rd place when it comes to total data traffic (behind Verizon and Sprint) should make them think twice before committing to AT&T's substandard network.
    Totally agree with iPhone's image. Pre will have tough time to overcome that. My observation is most iPhone owners are not techies. They use iPhone for making calls / listening to music / email / browsing web / Google maps / Youtube / APPs in that order. Most of them are due for contract renewal (I know least 50 people). Either they want another iPhone sans data package for their partner or just want to upgrade. If ATT allows Pre to be sold without the data package restriction there are enough takers (though I doubt ATT will do that). ATT has substandard network only in NYC and SFC, there are plenty of non techie iPhone users living out side of these two places.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I don't see it happening..selling better than previous US launches that is. Sprint offered free navigation and cheaper monthly plans. Verizon offered hotspot app and now has made it free in addition to aggressively cutting the price.

    AT&T has done...well...nothing. A yellow pages app? And will charge for their version of sprint nav. Plus they're planning on charging 149 initially.

    Smartphone competition is more than just the iphone, which by itself is pretty significant considering the time of year. But Nexus is available. Samsung Galaxy S is thought to be coming soon but still not confirmed by AT&T.
    ATT might not sell like Sprint did during the launch time, but it will sell better than Verizon for the simple reason that majority of the ATT customers are existing smartphone users (thanks to iPhone) who knows about the Pre. These folks know more about the Pre than a Verizon customer who wants an iPhone but told to buy Droid by Verizon sales people.

    The key is in the data package price. Palm should work with ATT in either reducing the data package price or give that mobile hotspot option. Sure it will hurt PALM in the bottom line revenue, but they can move few more handsets and clear the inventory.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by calvintlamb View Post
    Isn't it iPhone OS 4.0?
    It is, although iPhone hasn't actually named whatever handset they are releasing in June yet. Just a placeholder name on my part.
  7. gbp
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    #27  
    OTOH,
    If Palm can make a tablet with similar form factor like iPad, include flash, SD card slot, front facing camera and release it on Verizon network, it will be a success. Least it will make some money to get them out of the hole they are in. They just need to stop eating food ,stop sleeping and just work on the tablet for releasing it by next quarter
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    #28  
    Here is what I expect to happen.

    Palm and ATT will announce the official release date of the Pre Plus. Hours maybe even minutes later, there will be an iPhone 4 "leak." The leak will be heard by the sales people and potential customers and a large number of people will get on the wait train either because it was suggested by the sales people or they are curious to see what's around the bend. The train will keep it's passengers through a slow but steady leakage of iPhone 4 rumors. The Pre plus may catch some new smartphone users but I think the general iPhone population is locked in through app purchases and the promise of hope and change with the new 4.0 OS.

    Sorry for the doom and gloom but the iPhone rumors start getting leaked this time of the year and only grow steadily larger as the announce day approaches. I think the app lock in will be the biggest thing in the end since people will need to repurchase the apps they've come to rely on.
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
  9. #29  
    ATT is not going to drop the data package requirement for any of their smartphones nor will they drop the price. They want that extra revenue. And again, in the beginning they're not going to give anything away. I would guess that they've ordered a smaller amount of phones when compared to Verizon so they won't necessarily be having a fire sale.

    People who are going to buy the next Iphone iteration have already made up in their mind that they're going to do so. Those are not the customers that will potentially chose a new smartphone (webOS or Android).

    With a lack of advertising you're looking for customers that want a new phone but not sure what they want. These are the same customers that couldn't care less about what the specs are b/c they don't know the specs. Specs be damned. They walk into the store, play around with phones and decide which one to get. That is the customer that Palm will have to win.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  10. gbp
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post

    Windows 7-based tablets and Android tablets are going to have a hard-enough time competing. A webOS tablet launched 6 months from now would be as DOA as the Joo Joo is right now.
    +1,
    The only way they can leapfrog other tablets is by increasing memory to 32 gig, add SD slot, camera, FLASH.
  11. gbp
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Honis View Post

    I think the app lock in will be the biggest thing in the end since people will need to repurchase the apps they've come to rely on.
    You have a valid point there. But most folks have Free apps.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    +1,
    The only way they can leapfrog other tablets is by increasing memory to 32 gig, add SD slot, camera, FLASH.
    More specs would make no difference. 3200GB, 5 SD slots, and Flash, Silverlight, and Quicktime compatibility wouldn't change the equation.

    WebOS couldn't possibly offer the same caliber of experience as the iPad, and it definitely couldn't offer the app quality. And before I get jumped on by the "Well, go get an iPhone, you stinking traitor!" brigade, let me qualify that.

    The leading apps made for the iPad have a level of flash and polish that isn't present anywhere on smartphone-sized screens right now, even with iPhone. They also have some pretty big names behind them, and they wouldn't bother with an up-rezz'd version for a WebOS tablet if Palm paid them to. These "killer apps", moreso than any Apple marketing magic or hype, is what is driving iPad sales, and they are defining the iPad experience along with Apple's super smooth system UI.

    The 800mhz patch - much as I love it and will not go without it - shows that even ramping WebOS up to that speed will not make it anywhere near as smooth or responsive as the iPad or iPhone OS. The very framework of the OS has to be reworked and linked to the GPU for this to happen.

    Then, there's the fact that WebOS doesn't even have a comparable app catalog to competitors at the smartphone level, so even if you up-rezz'd what was already there...still no dice. What would the commercials show?

    But I've been reading these rumor reports of Chinese companies considering buying Palm just to stick WebOS on basic generic smartphones for entry-level users and other equipment, and that would be ideal for the current state of the OS. But a tablet to be sold in the current domestic market? No chance in hell of succeeding.
  13. gbp
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    More specs would make no difference. 3200GB, 5 SD slots, and Flash, Silverlight, and Quicktime compatibility wouldn't change the equation.

    WebOS couldn't possibly offer the same caliber of experience as the iPad, and it definitely couldn't offer the app quality. And before I get jumped on by the "Well, go get an iPhone, you stinking traitor!" brigade, let me qualify that.

    The leading apps made for the iPad have a level of flash and polish that isn't present anywhere on smartphone-sized screens right now, even with iPhone. They also have some pretty big names behind them, and they wouldn't bother with an up-rezz'd version for a WebOS tablet if Palm paid them to. These "killer apps", moreso than any Apple marketing magic or hype, is what is driving iPad sales, and they are defining the iPad experience along with Apple's super smooth system UI.

    The 800mhz patch - much as I love it and will not go without it - shows that even ramping WebOS up to that speed will not make it anywhere near as smooth or responsive as the iPad or iPhone OS. The very framework of the OS has to be reworked and linked to the GPU for this to happen.

    Then, there's the fact that WebOS doesn't even have a comparable app catalog to competitors at the smartphone level, so even if you up-rezz'd what was already there...still no dice. What would the commercials show?

    But I've been reading these rumor reports of Chinese companies considering buying Palm just to stick WebOS on basic generic smartphones for entry-level users and other equipment, and that would be ideal for the current state of the OS. But a tablet to be sold in the current domestic market? No chance in hell of succeeding.
    I beg to differ. Current situation is bad for palm. It is so bad that they do not have both money and time to jump ahead of the competition. Vendors with killer apps will come to WebOS if it sells well. OTOH , WebOS sells well if it has killer apps. That's the classic chicken and egg scenario. Palm need not make an iPad killer. All they need to do is make a decent tablet that is more responsive (i.e. glass), powerful and with solid hardware so that it will not be returned by customers. What is the best tablet out there other than the iPad ? There is none.

    Its about money/time. WebOS can compete with iPhone OS. Not sure you get the picture , palm has only 1000 employees, they just need money to hire more engineers for making a tablet/future devices/...
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    You have a valid point there. But most folks have Free apps.
    I'd like to see a survey showing how many people actually use free apps. I know people will download because "OMG FREE MUST HAVE" so I'd like to know if they are actually being used. I think Comics, Pandora (I pay the subscription), and the other radio apps are the only official 3rd party free apps I use with any regularity.

    (I'm not asking you to produce #s to support your rebuttal, which is also a valid point imo, it just triggered my curiosity).
    I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
    Device history: *free feature Phone*x3 -> LG Rumor -> Palm Pre -> HTC Arrive (3days) -> Samsung Nexus S 4G (28 days) -> Samsung Galaxy S II Sprint Epic 4G Touch -> Palm Pre -> Pre 3
  15. gbp
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Honis View Post
    I'd like to see a survey showing how many people actually use free apps. I know people will download because "OMG FREE MUST HAVE" so I'd like to know if they are actually being used. I think Comics, Pandora (I pay the subscription), and the other radio apps are the only official 3rd party free apps I use with any regularity.

    (I'm not asking you to produce #s to support your rebuttal, which is also a valid point imo, it just triggered my curiosity).
    Click on the official app catalog , then click total downloads. You will see the top 5 are all free. I would love to see the Apple store stats for comparison.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    You have a valid point there. But most folks have Free apps.
    You can add me to this list.

    When I had my Android phone I had only free apps.
    With my Palm Pre+ I look for free apps. If I can't find it I use a mobile webpage. No paid apps so far with everything I want.

    Games.... I have a xbox 360..
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    #37  
    I look at it another way: How the heck is Palm going to sell bunches of phones at ATT if the price is the same as the old iPhone, the price of the data plan is the same as the iPhone, the salespeople ALL have the iPhone and know ALL of it's features, etc.? And, just so you know, I am an ATT customer with a 2-year-old Palm Centro, and have been DYING for Palm to come to ATT.

    I went in to see the ATT Pre today, and the salesperson couldn't keep from referring to his iPhone, and suggesting that maybe I'd really be interested in this instead! It's going to be the same everywhere, unless Palm pays these kids an extra $$$ for every one they sell.
    tim
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    #38  
    My prediction? AT&T will get cold feet (even colder than they are now) at the last minute and will only sell the WebOS devices on their website or through B2B channels...maybe in a handful of "top performing" stores but nothing at all in the way of a major push.
    What could also happen would be AT&T relegating the Palm devices to a certain store (indirect sellers or Best Buy or Radio Shack). Remember the Treo Pro situation? That was launched as an unlocked GSM device in 2008 and was "certified" for use on AT&T's network. AT&T never offered it as a subsidized/branded device though a few months after launch Best Buy started offering Treo Pros for AT&T (unbranded) with subsidies & the usual 2yr contracts. So presumably BB was subsidizing the the handsets, not AT&T. I could definitely see a similar situation (though with a bit more support from AT&T) happening here with the Pre & Pixi Plus for AT&T. I expect that was part of the halo effect around the Pre unveiling at CES '09 and BB wanted to keep *something* with Palm's name on it in their stores so the Pre's arrival wouldn't be a total surprise.

    AT&T has always been a pretty lukewarm partner for Palm. Not as apathetic as Verizon, but still pretty disinterested, especially after the Treo 680 launch and the arrival of the iPhone. I certainly don't expect that to change anytime soon.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    I went in to see the ATT Pre today, and the salesperson couldn't keep from referring to his iPhone, and suggesting that maybe I'd really be interested in this instead! It's going to be the same everywhere, unless Palm pays these kids an extra $$$ for every one they sell.
    Since when did AT&T have the pre???
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by evanoliver View Post
    Since when did AT&T have the pre???
    Demo/eval Pre Plus units started shipping out to AT&T corporate stores several weeks ago for training purposes:

    AT&T getting 'practice' Pre Pluses tomorrow? -- Engadget
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
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