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  1.    #1  
    http://www.precentral.net/harbinger-...ive-stake-palm

    What I find ironically interesting about this story is that it can/will be used to support whatever view a particular individual has about Palm as a company.

    See, they are failing, that's why Harbinger bought into them.

    See, they are succeeding, that's why Harbinger bought into them.

    And I'm sure we will see plenty of both.
  2. #2  
    Okay, then let's go ahead and get the game started...

    At this point, from everything we've been hearing, if I were forced at gunpoint to put money down on something, I'd bet that this is a pure play against the possibility of an acquisition. And, I'd bet that the acquisition is coming very, very soon. As in, yet this week or next week at the latest.

    Otherwise, I don't see how this makes sense. There are way too many uncertainties to put money down like this.

    Now, that doesn't mean that they don't have other ideas in mind if Palm doesn't sell. Such as, potentially buying Palm and taking it private. The fact that they're building out an LTE network in the US is fascinating, and I could see them wanting to leverage this with a device somehow. Maybe. But I do like the idea of Palm going private--they would have oh so much more flexibility in how they do things, and could take a much longer view.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  3. #3  
    They didn't just put their money there for nothing, there's obviously some reason they think it's worth the investment. Either they have a deeper reason for investing, or they've run the numbers and realized the investment return is huge if Palm continues to grow webOS.
  4. #4  
    Is this what all the "Palm for Sale" news was all about? I'm guessing it is.

    I would say that Palm just wanted to get some money to reinvest in a better device. That way should the time come for them to really sell the company they can from a position of strength.

    Lets be honest all this news about Palm being sold has not been completely bad. It has put Palm back in the headlines and if you read the articles they all almost agree that the OS is one of the best on the market. So people looking at these articles will say, ok there was some bad management, some faulty hardware, but this is a company with potential. This is a good thing in my opion, not optimal, but good never the less.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Okay, then let's go ahead and get the game started...

    At this point, from everything we've been hearing, if I were forced at gunpoint to put money down on something, I'd bet that this is a pure play against the possibility of an acquisition. And, I'd bet that the acquisition is coming very, very soon. As in, yet this week or next week at the latest.
    ...
    At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Palm, I agree with you, for the most part. Oh wait, that's not really defending Palm, is it?

    Anyway, as much as I'd like to believe it's someone looking at putting a lot of money into Palm long term (which would negate the need for a buyout), I suspect, as you say, it's placing a bet that they're going to be acquired, and that the company will gain a profit from the acquisition.

    I say that with one added on comment - I think they're hedging their bets a little. Instead of just throwing the dice, I do believe they likely looked, and said "If they don't get acquired, this is a company we can do something with", thus the StreetInsider hint about the possibility of Harbinger become activist.

    Currently a proud member of the NSOTFWPF*
    * Neutrally Sitting On The Fence Watching Palm Force
  6. gbp
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post

    Anyway, as much as I'd like to believe it's someone looking at putting a lot of money into Palm long term (which would negate the need for a buyout), I suspect, as you say, it's placing a bet that they're going to be acquired, and that the company will gain a profit from the acquisition.
    Either way (acquisition or comeback slowly) it is good news. Why would a hedge fund pump money into a company if they are not sure about the company's business ?
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Either way (acquisition or comeback slowly) it is good news. Why would a hedge fund pump money into a company if they are not sure about the company's business ?
    Not sure what you mean by "not sure about the company's business". I think they do have some understanding of what Palm does. I don't think though, they are any more "sure" of what's going to happen than any of the other "experts". I could be wrong on either point though.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Why would a hedge fund pump money into a company if they are not sure about the company's business ?
    Based on acquisition predictions and reported value of the patent portfolio?

    Just a guess.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I say that with one added on comment - I think they're hedging their bets a little. Instead of just throwing the dice, I do believe they likely looked, and said "If they don't get acquired, this is a company we can do something with", thus the StreetInsider hint about the possibility of Harbinger become activist.
    Right. What throws a little monkey wrench into the idea that they're just trying to make a quick profit (in addition to the fact that it would be a highly speculative move) is that they're also heavily invested in wireless infrastructure. That seems potentially more than just coincidental to me...
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  10. #10  
    Harbinger OF DOOM Capital????
    THIS IS HOW WE HANDLE BUSINESS
  11. #11  
    they can make a huge chunk of money if there is a modest stock price gain due to any sort of multiple bid to acquire palm. The short term upswing which this hedge fund is know for seems extremely likely with palm stock right now.
  12. #12  
    They are failing, that is why harbinger bought into them

    They clearly are NOT succeeding, who in the world would think that?

    Even Palm would not say they are succeeding at this point.

    Only good news, I am ready for this acquisition.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    They are failing, that is why harbinger bought into them

    They clearly are NOT succeeding, who in the world would think that?

    Even Palm would not say they are succeeding at this point.

    Only good news, I am ready for this acquisition.
    Failing and succeeding are both very relative.
    Failing at what?
    Not succeeding at what?

    • Are they failing to turn a profit?
      Yes, but they didn't expect to turn a profit at this stage.
    • Are they failing to do as well as they expected?
      Yes, but many companies fail to meet expectatioins, and still continue on as a company.
    • Have they succeeded in keeping the company Palm from closing their doors, as was widely predicted and expted almost two years ago?
      Yes, indeed they have succeeded at that.
    • Have they succeeded at introducing a totally new smartphone that is still considered a viable option?
      Without a doubt.


    Success, failure, it's all relative. Personally, I'll consider them to have "failed" as a company, when the name goes away against the company's desire.

    And, I'll repeat what I said at the beginning of this thread:
    What I find ironically interesting about this story is that it can/will be used to support whatever view a particular individual has about Palm as a company.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Failing and succeeding are both very relative.
    Failing at what?
    Not succeeding at what?

    • Are they failing to turn a profit?
      Yes, but they didn't expect to turn a profit at this stage.
    • Are they failing to do as well as they expected?
      Yes, but many companies fail to meet expectatioins, and still continue on as a company.
    • Have they succeeded in keeping the company Palm from closing their doors, as was widely predicted and expted almost two years ago?
      Yes, indeed they have succeeded at that.
    • Have they succeeded at introducing a totally new smartphone that is still considered a viable option?
      Without a doubt.


    Success, failure, it's all relative. Personally, I'll consider them to have "failed" as a company, when the name goes away against the company's desire.

    And, I'll repeat what I said at the beginning of this thread:
    Why do you bother with VickMackey? He does not understand logical reasoning. Trying to speak to him is like ramming your head against a giant brick wall and hoping it doesn't break open.

    The only way you will get him to agree with you is if you say, you are right Vick, Palm is the worst company to have seen the light of day and the webOS should be used as the poster boy for worst phone ever made.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Failing and succeeding are both very relative.
    Failing at what?
    Not succeeding at what?

    • Are they failing to turn a profit?
      Yes, but they didn't expect to turn a profit at this stage.
    • Are they failing to do as well as they expected?
      Yes, but many companies fail to meet expectatioins, and still continue on as a company.
    • Have they succeeded in keeping the company Palm from closing their doors, as was widely predicted and expted almost two years ago?
      Yes, indeed they have succeeded at that.
    • Have they succeeded at introducing a totally new smartphone that is still considered a viable option?
      Without a doubt.


    Success, failure, it's all relative. Personally, I'll consider them to have "failed" as a company, when the name goes away against the company's desire.

    And, I'll repeat what I said at the beginning of this thread:
    It's real simple, they have failed to meet the expectations of:
    1 consumers
    2 shareholders
    3 tech community
    4 developer community


    They have failed to make any progress in
    1 marketshare
    2 mindshare
    3 Stock price is almost what it was before the announcement of the Pre

    How else would you define failure?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Why do you bother with VickMackey? He does not understand logical reasoning. Trying to speak to him is like ramming your head against a giant brick wall and hoping it doesn't break open.

    The only way you will get him to agree with you is if you say, you are right Vick, Palm is the worst company to have seen the light of day and the webOS should be used as the poster boy for worst phone ever made.
    where did i ever say Palm is the worst company?

    Keeping this on topic, the thread is about the relative success/failure of Palm.

    It is my opinion that they have failed.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Why do you bother with VickMackey? He does not understand logical reasoning. Trying to speak to him is like ramming your head against a giant brick wall and hoping it doesn't break open.

    The only way you will get him to agree with you is if you say, you are right Vick, Palm is the worst company to have seen the light of day and the webOS should be used as the poster boy for worst phone ever made.
    Actually, I think the whole "failed/succeeded" topic is a good one, no matter who it might be with. I almost started a thread about this the other yesterday, but got distracted with other things.

    The path Palm's taken is interesting though, and I find the attempt to label them "fail/success" interesting.

    Did Palm "fail" when US Robotics (a modem company) bought them? Did they "fail" when 3Com then bought US Robotics, and became the owner (did both US Robitics and Palm "fail" at that point)? Did they "fail" when they were forced to introduce a totally new product, vastly different from what they had before?

    I hold to my belief that no company "fails" until they disappear, against their will.

    Of course, all of this is conjecture and "personal belief" on everyone's part. When asking if Palm has "failed", the only completely factual answer at this point would be "not yet".
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    where did i ever say Palm is the worst company?

    Keeping this on topic, the thread is about the relative success/failure of Palm.

    It is my opinion that they have failed.
    Actually, if we want to keep it on topic, the topic is Harbinger's purchase of almost 10% of Palm's stock (I know, I started the thread).

    Turning it to (again) expressing your opinion that Palm has failed is off-topic of the thread.

    Unless, of course, you're contention is that Harbinger is buying into the company because they've failed.

    Interesting notion. What would be their motive in that?
  19. #19  
    I dumped my Palm stock some time ago, I considered purchasing more shares because i know rumors/whispers/talk of a buyout drives the price of the stock up, that is why Harbinger bought. When you are "looking" for a buyer, or looking to sell yourself, it means you need help. You have "failed" to accomplish your goals on your own.
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, if we want to keep it on topic, the topic is Harbinger's purchase of almost 10% of Palm's stock (I know, I started the thread).

    Turning it to (again) expressing your opinion that Palm has failed is off-topic of the thread.

    Unless, of course, you're contention is that Harbinger is buying into the company because they've failed.

    Interesting notion. What would be their motive in that?
    Palm's patent portfolio, of course.

    It seems that Palm would operate in the black if that portfolio were really so solid and really enforceable.

    <offtopic_rant mode="on">Just remember, someone actually did file a patent on the use of a laser pointer to entertain a cat (don't know if it was granted). And Smuckers (I think) tried to patent a crustless PB&J sandwich. Thankfully, it was denied. I've even seen patents listed on some pom-poms that were passed out at work for some function.</offtopic_rant>
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