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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I suppose, instead, I could choose to be an ***** to the end. Not so admirable.

    And I'll ask again, what does "official" have to do with defending Palm? I want someone to buy them!!

    Are you really so dense?
    no, i'm not, but you will defend this company and this phone no matter the thread. Palm IS for sale. One way or another, Ownership will change and managenent will change, no matter what you chose to hope or believe.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    no, i'm not, but you will defend this company and this phone no matter the thread. Palm IS for sale. One way or another, Ownership will change and managenent will change, no matter what you chose to hope or believe.
    And I ask again, how does talking about the word "official" equate to being a solider and/or defending Palm, especially when (and I'll say it again), I'm hoping someone buys them?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I suppose, instead, I could choose to be an ***** to the end. Not so admirable.


    I'm not sure you had a choice. It's still entertaining to read some of your posts though..
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't buy that at all. The whole "I've got a better patent than you" is very much a game of bluster and bluff. Palm "owns" the patent to the smartphone. Does anyone really believe that would be succesful aggressively pursuing all of the other smartphone makers out there? Is anyone ready to bet $1,000,000,000 or so on that fact? Or even bet a billion or so on holding that patent being a successful defense to a suit by Apple?

    I don't think so.

    I think whatever company buys them out (if one does) will do so planning on continuing to offer product.
    I'm not sure I agree with you here. Consider that Apple sees Google and Android as enough of a threat that they've gone beyond the "bluster and bluff" stage and actually filed suit. It's entirely possible that they could get an injunction against HTC that would prohibit the importation of their products, which would be devastating to HTC even if it lasted only a few months. And even HTC's ability to appeal wouldn't undo the damage--potential customers and partners (i.e., carriers) would have to think twice about HTC as a smartphone vendor.

    Owning Palm's patents, however, would give HTC lawyers the ammunition they need to work out a cross-licensing agreement or somesuch with Apple. It would be a purely defensive move, and very timely. Otherwise, HTC is in a very precarious position.

    I'm not saying that an HTC will actually buy Palm strictly for this reason--webOS really is a valuable product--but it's not inconceivable that they might do so. I'll also add that it's only HTC that's in this position, and only because they're the leading Android manufacturer at this point. Apple doesn't have the gumption to go after Google directly.

    And that leads to another, and very depressing, possibility: that Google will buy Palm to give them their own ammunition to approach Apple and suggest that they reconsider their suit against HTC. And if Google does this, then I have no doubt that webOS will simply disappear. Maybe some of its elements would show up in Android, but that's it.

    In short, I think we're facing a very fascinating situation that will be studied for years. The smartphone market is a vital part of a larger mobile technology market that is becoming the most important market in modern times. The stakes are huge, and all of the major players--Apple, Google, Microsoft, RIM, Nokia--recognize it.

    It's also ferociously competitive, and the leader so far--Apple--has a great deal to fear from Android. And Google wants to dominate this market because they want to control who sells the ads on the tens of millions--eventually hundreds of millions--of smartphones. I think that it's entirely possible that poor little Palm will end up as a sacrificial pawn in what's a very complex game.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And I ask again, how does talking about the word "official" equate to being a solider and/or defending Palm, especially when (and I'll say it again), I'm hoping someone buys them?
    because instead of contributing constructively to the discussion, you first choose to correct the OP saying it isn't official, well **** who cares if it's official or not? they are broke, they have failed and they are looking for buyers. And like every thread you enter, you call names because you can't get your point across.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, your update does shed some light on the topic at hand (sans the "official" nonsense).

    If Palm is considering licensing WebOS as one of its options, then it would be safe to say that updates will continue as they have been.
    I also find it interesting that while some are ready to embrace the "it's for sale" talk, they seem to totally ignore the rest of what the analysts are saying, such as:

    Analysts say its most valuable asset is the WebOS operating system, which yielded rave reviews but lackluster sales

    Sorry folks, I see this thread as just more opportunity for the doom and gloom, Palm is going to fail crowed to crow a little more.

    My Pre works the same today as it did last week. I was pretty happy with it then, and I still am.

    If it never gets another update, I got my money's worth out of it, and I'll switch to something else in about a month and half.

    But, I don't think that's going to be the end game.
    Being optimistic is a good thing but let's also consider the external forces Palm is up against if they decide to license WebOS. First, it will take time for the new HW to be designed/developed/delivered. Second, in the meantime cash flow issues would continue (Hparsons, please don't debate if there are cash flow issues. Thanks). Third, in the meantime some (many?) developers will hold back which means their app store will remain lean compared to competitors. Forth, ....well you get the picture.

    Now, IF they do a combo deal that includes licensing and a cash infusion then they might have a little more leeway. But none of that will solve the execution and competitive challenges that they face today.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with you here. Consider that Apple sees Google and Android as enough of a threat that they've gone beyond the "bluster and bluff" stage and actually filed suit. It's entirely possible that they could get an injunction against HTC that would prohibit the importation of their products, which would be devastating to HTC even if it lasted only a few months. And even HTC's ability to appeal wouldn't undo the damage--potential customers and partners (i.e., carriers) would have to think twice about HTC as a smartphone vendor.

    Owning Palm's patents, however, would give HTC lawyers the ammunition they need to work out a cross-licensing agreement or somesuch with Apple. It would be a purely defensive move, and very timely. Otherwise, HTC is in a very precarious position.

    I'm not saying that an HTC will actually buy Palm strictly for this reason--webOS really is a valuable product--but it's not inconceivable that they might do so. I'll also add that it's only HTC that's in this position, and only because they're the leading Android manufacturer at this point. Apple doesn't have the gumption to go after Google directly.

    And that leads to another, and very depressing, possibility: that Google will buy Palm to give them their own ammunition to approach Apple and suggest that they reconsider their suit against HTC. And if Google does this, then I have no doubt that webOS will simply disappear. Maybe some of its elements would show up in Android, but that's it.

    In short, I think we're facing a very fascinating situation that will be studied for years. The smartphone market is a vital part of a larger mobile technology market that is becoming the most important market in modern times. The stakes are huge, and all of the major players--Apple, Google, Microsoft, RIM, Nokia--recognize it.

    It's also ferociously competitive, and the leader so far--Apple--has a great deal to fear from Android. And Google wants to dominate this market because they want to control who sells the ads on the tens of millions--eventually hundreds of millions--of smartphones. I think that it's entirely possible that poor little Palm will end up as a sacrificial pawn in what's a very complex game.
    I think of patents as nukes. If you own a bunch, you generally don't go after others that have a bunch as well. It's more defensive than anything to prevent attacks. Poor HTC looked ripe for a little bombing though.

    Here Palm sits with some good defensive nukes of its own. Are they worth anything? Only way to find out is to enter battle. Palm would have little to gain attacking HTC or someone with hardly anything. Besides, HTC could end up making hardware for them later and would draw fire from Google..someone they'd love to have apps from.

    Palm can't go after Apple because Apple has nukes. Same with other long time manufacturers.

    But bottom line, the patents are Palm's and they're very real. And yep, Apple infringes on some of them.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with you here. Consider that Apple sees Google and Android as enough of a threat that they've gone beyond the "bluster and bluff" stage and actually filed suit. It's entirely possible that they could get an injunction against HTC that would prohibit the importation of their products, which would be devastating to HTC even if it lasted only a few months. And even HTC's ability to appeal wouldn't undo the damage--potential customers and partners (i.e., carriers) would have to think twice about HTC as a smartphone vendor.

    Owning Palm's patents, however, would give HTC lawyers the ammunition they need to work out a cross-licensing agreement or somesuch with Apple. It would be a purely defensive move, and very timely. Otherwise, HTC is in a very precarious position.
    ...
    (Shortened for brevity).

    It's the $1bil price tag that lends me to believe what I believe. Apple suing HTC didn't cost them $1bil non-refundable deposit up front, but faith in the patent(s) will cost HTC that (or Lenovo). I just don't buy that either of them would bet that much solely on the patent.

    WebOS, as it sits right now, would be nothing but a benefit to the purchasing company. Most of the development is gone, the development staff is small, so there's not a lot of money to invest there. If HTC or Lenovo bought them (or even RIM), the cost of hardware would be greatly reduced. In short, there's not much in the way of additional expense.

    However, there is a lot of benefit. An OS that is almost universally recongized as innovative and desireable, an app store that generates revenue just by being there, with very little overhead.

    In short, I don't see much downside to keeping the OS alive, for those companies.

    I do agree with you about Google though. The idea of them buying Palm would be troubling. They can spend a billion like you and I tip a waiter.
  9. #49  
    Read this morning's article at Reuters.

    Palm is looking at all of its options, including trying to license their web os platform, then look for additional operating capital, and finally if all else fails, looking for a buyer. I believe the ideal situation for Palm (and all of us who love web os) would be to license their superior platform/operating system. If that happens, they would become the new "android," and we can have the Web OS platform that we love so much and also buy the QUALITY hardware of our choice.
  10. #50  
    Just so everybody knows
    HTC developed the Treo series for Palm
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    (Shortened for brevity).I do agree with you about Google though. The idea of them buying Palm would be troubling. They can spend a billion like you and I tip a waiter.
    Actually, I can't believe I forgot to mention: even more troubling, and downright distasteful, is the idea that Apple could swoop in and by Palm to reinforce their own patent portfolio. Apple also has more cash than they know what to do with (more than anyone but Microsoft, I think), and imagine how strong Apple's IP would be in the mobile space if they added in Palm's portfolio.

    Ye gads, but that would be the worst-case scenario. And, Jobs might just do it out of spite.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald600 View Post
    Just so everybody knows
    HTC developed the Treo series for Palm
    Just a clarification: HTC built (some of) the Treo series for Palm. I don't believe they actually developed them.

    Now, along those lines, Sony actually did develop a series of devices with Palm software on them, the Clie. And, those were some nice devices.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Actually, I can't believe I forgot to mention: even more troubling, and downright distasteful, is the idea that Apple could swoop in and by Palm to reinforce their own patent portfolio. Apple also has more cash than they know what to do with (more than anyone but Microsoft, I think), and imagine how strong Apple's IP would be in the mobile space if they added in Palm's portfolio.

    Ye gads, but that would be the worst-case scenario. And, Jobs might just do it out of spite.
    I don't think the Feds would let Apple take over Palm to eliminate them. I really don't think they'd even let Google do so, but I'm personally more worried about Google than Apple.

    If the Feds let them, Apple might do it for spite. However, they have this pride thing going, and I don't think they'd like the idea of people pointing at them and saying they squashed Palm because they knew it was better...
  14. angiest's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Actually, I can't believe I forgot to mention: even more troubling, and downright distasteful, is the idea that Apple could swoop in and by Palm to reinforce their own patent portfolio. Apple also has more cash than they know what to do with (more than anyone but Microsoft, I think), and imagine how strong Apple's IP would be in the mobile space if they added in Palm's portfolio.

    Ye gads, but that would be the worst-case scenario. And, Jobs might just do it out of spite.
    That's expensive spite. It would also further remove anything that makes them different from Microsoft except for the name.
  15. #55  
    why is everybody thinking HTC will be great and all ?

    you do realise they would do the same as chinese automakers are doing with car dealers and saab/volvo right?

    they buy them to get a the gate open for them to sell their stuff!
    with palm, they will just scrap webos and use windows mobile, android etc.....
    its cheaper!

    why would they buy the webos and continue it ? it needs serious investment, and the market is just overcrowded with operating systems.........and remember this is a chinese group of companies, webos is means nothing outside america!

    HTC makes phones with other ppl's OS......!

    Leveono or whatever makes IBM laptops, what they want with a phone manufacturer i dont know
  16. angiest's Avatar
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    #56  
    Lenovo doesn't make IBM laptops. They bought IBM's laptop business and sell Lenovo laptops, just like Seagate bought IBM's HDD business and they sell Seagate HDDs. Now it is true IBM still supplies Lenovo Thinkpads to their employees, but that may be due to favourable contract pricing. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $IBM$ $really$ $no$ $longer$ $has$ $a$ $financial$ $interest$ $in$ $that$ $business$ ($unless$ $via$ $various$ $trademarks$, $patents$, $and$ $copyrights$ $they$ $may$ $or$ $may$ $not$ $have$ $retained$). $In$ $terms$ $of$ $making$ $and$ $selling$ $laptops$, $it$ $is$ $Lenovo$'$s$ $business$.

    Lenovo is actually an interesting thought, since they don't currently have a smartphone (or any phone) and would therefore be more likely to maintain webOS since a fair amount of work is done for them already.
  17. urkel's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The discussion topic was "With Palm Officially On the Block..."

    Whether or not Palm is officially on the block, I'd say, affects the validity of the topic.
    Oh please. If someone said "With Microsoft officially on the block..." then running to the podium and screaming "Who dares to start this rumor" may make sense. But whether Palm is on the block today, tomorrow or next year then the subject still is extremely valid and worth discussing. '

    Palm is struggling to survive so a discussion about "What will happen with updates" is worth having. Your presence here is the same as your presence in every other thread. You come out so you can nitpick the single flaw in someones sentence and completely ignore the general topic. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
    Last edited by Urkel; 04/12/2010 at 01:37 PM.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The biggest problem they'll have is keeping the troops rallied. As someone who worked at a company when rumors of this sort kept persistently floating around, it's just mentally draining wondering what's going to happen to it, if you're going to get laid off, etc.
    You know, a friend of mine works in developer relations at Palm and she seems surprisingly okay. I know it's more reflective of her personality and isn't indicative of the general mood at the company but I get the vibe that she feels more relieved that _something_ is about to happen one way or another.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald600 View Post
    Just so everybody knows
    HTC developed the Treo series for Palm
    Is this a true statement based on fact?

    You mean my tank Treo 650 was made by HTC?

    Wow, it this is true, then no wonder I called the Treo 650 a rank!

    This was the best phone I ever had.

    I purchased my Pre mainly to support Palm, knowing that I was getting into an iffy IS that was not complete.

    But even though, I'm not totally happy with the hardware (the oreo issue and the small size, I want a larger screen) I LOVE WebOS!

    I recent went to an Apple store with a friend that was interested in the iPad and when I played with it (knowing it is an oversized iPhone), I realized how much better WebOS is compared to the iPhone OS like night and day. The sun shines with WebOS.

    I think Palm being purchased and allowed to operate as an independate company is the best solution. Maybe license WebOS to hardware makers.

    I personally was waiting to purchase the next hardware device from Palm assuming we (I) would get better hardware with that larger screen.

    I think we all wanted that to be the next model. And consider the current Pre to be that test device that WebOS was founded on to start, but not the last device.

    And yes, I agree, OS's usually stay and evolve but hardware changes these days every 18 months.

    We are due (Sprint customers), now I'm not sure we will see new hardware until this immediate issue is solved.

    Who would take on a new device with Palm influx, if rumors are true.

    And what is going to happen with the up and coming release of the Pre & Pixi on AT&T's network in the coming months.

    No one here has mentioned that yet?

    Will that get canned?

    Rob
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    Is this a true statement based on fact?

    You mean my tank Treo 650 was made by HTC?

    Wow, it this is true, then no wonder I called the Treo 650 a rank!
    HTC used to solely be an OEM / ODM. Palm designed the product, and HTC built it.

    The Treo Pro is the only example of a product that was entirely designed by HTC and then sold by Palm.
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