View Poll Results: Are you happy with your Pre'?

Voters
280. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    197 70.36%
  • No

    40 14.29%
  • I believe that Palm will fix the issues in the next year

    37 13.21%
  • I am moving on

    28 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 121 to 140 of 4493
  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    None of that changes the fact that some of the most important basic things shipped screwy and are still screwy despite four OS updates. It shouldn't take multiple firmware revisions to get THE PHONE part of a smartphone to work properly. Answering a call from a locked Pre should NOT be hit and miss.

    How low are we going to set the bar for Palm?
    I haven't followed the "basic phone threads", because the two I started to read had users that had experiences totally different from mine. I checked it both times I started to read the threads, and just now checked it again.

    Calling up the phone app < 1 second
    Calling up the phone log < 2 seconds
    Calling my Pre from another phone = 2 rings on the calling phone
    Lag time to unlock screen = 0

    I don't know if it matters, but I don't have PIN locking on the screen, and I have about 500 users in my contact list.

    I'll be happy to talk about it more in the proper thread, if it's a real "let's see what's wrong" thread, and not another gripe-fest.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Operator error? Ok.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...yone-else.html

    Lots of erroneous operators there. Odd, how few other contemporary smartphones have so many people complaining about being able to simply answer a call or dial a number.

    But your phone and experience is awesome, so who cares, right? I never had a persistent slider shutoff problem, or bad battery life, or dead pixels, or an oreo slider....it must be something THOSE guys are doing wrong.
    I went back and read every one of those threads. Several were off topic, and some were actually stating they didn't have problems. However, the one thing I noticed consistently was that no one quantified their "lag" problems, except one guy that said it took 10 seconds (which I don't believe for an instant).

    What's slow to one person might not be to another.

    I think this is one of the problems we see with the Pre, and in general with the gripe-fests. People complain, and somone may be having the same experience but with different expectations, so they don't understand the problem.

    "Sucks", is hardly definitive of the problem, and that's what we see a lot of on here.
  3. joejoe1's Avatar
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    #123  
    This thread has made me realize how much i love this phone! I was sensitive to criticisms to it the last 2 weeks having second thoughts on if i made the right purchase, but the more I read such posts in this thread, i realize i DO love my phone.
  4. #124  
    That says more about you than the phone.
  5. Clack's Avatar
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peteman100 View Post
    WebOS isn't open source enough for this to be true. If that was the case, they would have just used Andriod.
    Android doesn't preclude a custon UI such as WebOS has. However, WebOS does preclude itself from being customized for non-smartphone applications at this time.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  6. Clack's Avatar
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    I think all of you experts that keep spouting off about how easy it is for Palm to immediately fix your particular set of "deal-breaker embarassing absolute basic smartphone features" should quit your jobs and form a company together producing smartphones.

    Sure, there's stuff that needs fixin', but unless you've actually worked in the industry you're just blowing smoke.

    Put up, or shut up.
    I do work in the industry and some of the problems the phone is having (in terms of hardware) should not have made it out of pre-production.

    The sliding mechanism of the phone is clearly one of the weakest points of the phone compared to a bar type phone. But Palm has no industry experience with non-bar phones.

    Also, I suspect the touch stone is contributing to screen fractures. The heat/cold thermal cycling that the induction technology is adding to the phone is probably resulting in the plastic becoming more brittle faster than those who are not using touch stones. Treated glass such as used by the iPhone is much more resilient to thermal cycling.

    Anyway, the end users shouldn't have to be Engineers in order to have a valid opinion as to the problems they'd like to avoid or have solved. It is the Engineers that take those non engineering requirements and translate them in to a viable product.

    So, shutup while others put up
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  7. Clack's Avatar
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    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I went back and read every one of those threads. Several were off topic, and some were actually stating they didn't have problems. However, the one thing I noticed consistently was that no one quantified their "lag" problems, except one guy that said it took 10 seconds (which I don't believe for an instant).

    What's slow to one person might not be to another.

    I think this is one of the problems we see with the Pre, and in general with the gripe-fests. People complain, and somone may be having the same experience but with different expectations, so they don't understand the problem.

    "Sucks", is hardly definitive of the problem, and that's what we see a lot of on here.
    This sounds like a nice way to dismiss those that haven't quantified their experience.

    But, in fact, there studies used by Engineers that have quantified perceived and actual lag. These studies are used, for example, to implement schedule algos implementing human UIs.

    One of the first examples was the design of TTYs.

    Simplified, yet responsive digital computer interfaces, go back even further. The keypad design of the AGC (Apollo Guidance Computer). That interface was so influential we still see it's modern incarnation in ATMs.

    So, while it is true that not everyone here has quantified their expierence, there are standards used so that users don't complain about them if the device was designed with that in mind.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  8. dbett's Avatar
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by turbooxide View Post
    well, let me say this... we as users wouldn't be able to do all this tinkering if it wasn't for palm.

    The beauty of Palm's development of WebOS.
  9. Leke's Avatar
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    #129  
    I personally believe this was palms intent. The users know exactly what they like so instead of palm forcing us to use their 3rd party apps, let the end user create what they want. I also don't believe in "leaked" SDK. I think it was intentially sent out early by palm for early adopters.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I went back and read every one of those threads. Several were off topic, and some were actually stating they didn't have problems. However, the one thing I noticed consistently was that no one quantified their "lag" problems, except one guy that said it took 10 seconds (which I don't believe for an instant).

    What's slow to one person might not be to another.

    I think this is one of the problems we see with the Pre, and in general with the gripe-fests. People complain, and somone may be having the same experience but with different expectations, so they don't understand the problem.

    "Sucks", is hardly definitive of the problem, and that's what we see a lot of on here.
    It's real simple.

    1) The call log is still inexcusably choppy when scrolling, and sometimes you scroll to points where there is...nothing. Just big gaps of blankness.
    2) As mentioned by Cardfan, sometimes when you tap to hangup a call, nothing happens. I've had calls where I couldn't hang up even after 6 taps. The party hanging up on the other line ended the call.
    3) Sometimes when a call comes in and I slide the unit open to answer,...nothing happens. The phone continues to vibrate that a call is coming in, but no one is on the other line and I miss the call.
    4) Sometimes when a call comes in, I try to slide it open to unlock it and...nada.
    5) There's infrequent lag when using the onscreen dialer.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Leke View Post
    I personally believe this was palms intent. The users know exactly what they like so instead of palm forcing us to use their 3rd party apps, let the end user create what they want. I also don't believe in "leaked" SDK. I think it was intentially sent out early by palm for early adopters.
    This is an utterly absurd argument to make and one that you deep down cannot possibly believe, i love this phone too but this is fanboyism and being an apologist at it's best!

    less that a percent of Pre users will root their phone and less than a tenth of a percent will "make their own apps", what about the people that want a phone that works from the factory. Please stop the absurdity.

    I have the patience to wait it out, but apparently many individuals here don't.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    That says more about you than the phone.
    You get on here and regularly trash the Pre when you don't even own one. However, someone posts they like it, and you insult them. Wonder why?
  13. #133  
    Some comments about "lag"

    (Disclaimer: I haven't religiously read what people have written lately about the lag. Seriously, I don't have time for that.)

    In my observations, I believe that lag can occur after you open up too many applications. For those of you who logged into your Pre via telnet or novacmd, you can run some simple experiments and observe that the Luna Sys Manager seems to not have it's memory managed in perhaps the best way possible. If you run "top" in the telnet window, and then open up a bunch of cards and then close them, you can see what I mean. I believe the garbage collection (for freeing unused memory) is a bit more latent than might be optimal for the Pre. The way to fix this is probably for Palm to tweak their JVM. This sort of fix would likeky do much to correct the lag problem.

    I suspect this is the sort of thing (plus API/SDK design/tweaking) that Palm is working on at the moment.

    I've also had times when the phone rang and I didn't get to it right away, only to have the phone reboot when I answer it. It could be embarrassing if that happened on an important call.

    To be honest, for the time being, the best way to circumvent these sorts of issues is to "reboot" your phone regularly (ie: every morning). I don't bother with this, but I'd probably do it before expecting an important call. The other thing (for now) is not to go wild and open too many applications at onc. 3 or 4 are fine, but more than 6 or 8 cards might amplify this sort of problem.

    If this has been covered elsewhere, I apologize for repeating my observations here. If you don't agree with my suggestions, please feel free to make (civil) comments about your observations or what has been working for you.

    This thread started off as complaints about Palm not rolling in simple homebrew fixes. I hope some of you see by now that the simple things aren't where Palm needs to spend their time. They need to tweak the runtime environment in order to offer fixes for these more complex problems that some people are having. Once that's done, you can be sure they will add the "fit and polish" to the software applications that many here also want.

    Hope this helps, Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    I do work in the industry and some of the problems the phone is having (in terms of hardware) should not have made it out of pre-production.

    The sliding mechanism of the phone is clearly one of the weakest points of the phone compared to a bar type phone. But Palm has no industry experience with non-bar phones.

    Also, I suspect the touch stone is contributing to screen fractures. The heat/cold thermal cycling that the induction technology is adding to the phone is probably resulting in the plastic becoming more brittle faster than those who are not using touch stones. Treated glass such as used by the iPhone is much more resilient to thermal cycling.

    Anyway, the end users shouldn't have to be Engineers in order to have a valid opinion as to the problems they'd like to avoid or have solved. It is the Engineers that take those non engineering requirements and translate them in to a viable product.

    So, shutup while others put up
    Yeah, right. You sure "put up" there...
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    ..
    If this has been covered elsewhere, I apologize for repeating my observations here. If you don't agree with my suggestions, please feel free to make (civil) comments about your observations or what has been working for you.
    ...
    You may be on to something with this one. I don't typically keep apps open unless I'm specifically doing something with them. I don't have the lag problems with the phone app that I read about on here.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    I do work in the industry and some of the problems the phone is having (in terms of hardware) should not have made it out of pre-production.

    The sliding mechanism of the phone is clearly one of the weakest points of the phone compared to a bar type phone. But Palm has no industry experience with non-bar phones.

    Also, I suspect the touch stone is contributing to screen fractures. The heat/cold thermal cycling that the induction technology is adding to the phone is probably resulting in the plastic becoming more brittle faster than those who are not using touch stones. Treated glass such as used by the iPhone is much more resilient to thermal cycling.

    Anyway, the end users shouldn't have to be Engineers in order to have a valid opinion as to the problems they'd like to avoid or have solved. It is the Engineers that take those non engineering requirements and translate them in to a viable product.

    So, shutup while others put up
    Try reading my post; nothing in there about people not having an opinion on problems they'd like solved. My issue is Monday Morning Quarterback know-it-alls that are always running their mouths about what Palm shoulda done and how easy it all is. You know - the type that will say something like "I am in the industry" and then run off a bunch of pure speculation about a string of hardware isssues unrelated to the conversation, to try and impress people that they know what they're talking about.

    And since you do "work in the industry" how about directing us all to your product so we can all buy one, tell you what a POS it is, and what you need to do to fix it. That is putting up, my friend.

    And BTW, there are three Touchstones and two Pre's in my household, neither of which have cracked screens.
    Last edited by GMoney749; 08/24/2009 at 08:24 PM.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    he point I am trying to make (and perhaps failing at) is that buying a new Pam device and expecting everything to work correctly might be a bit unwise given the company's past history.
    That's what I'm talking about - Palm's been on a steep product quality drop since the Treo 600 (which was actually a Handspring product).
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Try reading my post; nothing in there about people not having an opinion on problems they'd like solved. My issue is Monday Morning Quarterback know-it-alls that are always running their mouths about what Palm shoulda done and how easy it all is. You know .
    I am not in the industry, but I have (a tiny amount of) money, and I put it up, money talks. Hell I can have completely *** backwards incorrect ideas, but if me, and a bunch of other people like me will spend money based on those ideas, then palm and sprint will listen.

    same thing goes for Monday morning quarterback by the way, I, and all the slobs like me, pay for those fools to go out on a field and engage in pointless activities for our amusement.

    dance tom brady, dance for me you magnificent fool!

    If they are not amusing us with wins than they are not doing there job and we will tell them about it. its like if you had a surgeon and you asked them to augment your appearance with various fluid filled bags, but instead they removed your gallbladder, you would be like, hey, surgeon, why the heck are you monkeying around with my various organs? I don't want you doing that, now get back to augmenting things.

    In palms case, I pay for a product and service (via sprint), they need to deliver, If they want to continue this relationship they must listen to my complaints and do something about it.

    Now, i love the pre, and frankly am not bothered by most of the things that seem to irk some others. on the other hand there is no scrub bar in the media player, and that is a silly undercooked and perplexing.
    There are four lights.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post

    The point I am trying to make (and perhaps failing at) is that buying a new Pam device and expecting everything to work correctly might be a bit unwise given the company's past history. None of the problems people have reported have surprised me, nor have the responses from the rabid fanboys to reports of these problems. That said it has been easy for me to refrain from being a Pre early adopter thanks to Palm's decision to launch as a Sprint exclusive and also thanks to the poor support of PIM functionality and legacy PalmOS applications. I wasn't too excited about some of there other decisions either but the ones I mentioned are the show stoppers for me.
    The same can be said for Apple and most of their hardware. Having had to deal with a 3g for a year I can safely say that it was far from glitch free. And I've seen my fair share of crappy Apple hardware in general.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You may be on to something with this one. I don't typically keep apps open unless I'm specifically doing something with them. I don't have the lag problems with the phone app that I read about on here.
    Agreed. While the Pre can get a little laggy in general with many cards open, I have not had the type of lag described by others with the phone app.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid

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