View Poll Results: Are you happy with your Pre'?

Voters
280. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    197 70.36%
  • No

    40 14.29%
  • I believe that Palm will fix the issues in the next year

    37 13.21%
  • I am moving on

    28 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 481 to 500 of 4493
  1. #481  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Usually i would say this to whiners, but in this case that line doesn't hold any water. These are issues Palm NEEDS to fix. Some people will not care and others will, but again, these are issues that Palm needs to, should and will fix.
    Neither side is wrong here, it's just about what's important to people.
    If the people who do not care outnumber those who do by a wide enough margin, Palm doesn't need to do anything. The market (specifically the cash register) dictates what Palm 'needs' to do. Fact is, in its current form, the Pre takes care of all the basic functions just fine. Certain defects and performance issues will be dealth with in time, I can guarantee it, but they don't need to make the phone scroll smoother (for example) because a small percentage care about that.

    If on the other hand, the phone isn't reliable, or the web browser crashes all the time, or the email app has compatibility issues, then yes, Palm will should fix those issues asap. However if with all that, the phone is selling like hotcakes, they really don't need to do anything.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  2. #482  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I'm talking about OS level stuff to address fundamental design choices Palm made and smooth over rough edges they left in the system. As much as I'd like to see developers fix this stuff, it has to be done at the mothership.
    Yes, I know. I've read your rants about what it's missing, and what it can't do. Then I see other developers talk about actually doing "what it can't do". I'm optomistic. I understand though, that since you're not developing for it, you have a vested interest in convincing everyone that there's no future there.
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    #483  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yes, I know. I've read your rants about what it's missing, and what it can't do. Then I see other developers talk about actually doing "what it can't do". I'm optomistic.
    There are technical hurdles that cannot be overcome with some of the current issues (for instance no graphics acceleration, no protection for source code). It's not open for interpretation, these are facts. Anybody that claims to be getting over these hurdles is lying or they don't know what they are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I understand though, that since you're not developing for it, you have a vested interest in convincing everyone that there's no future there.
    For the record I want to point out that you are incorrect in stating that I am not developing for the platform. I think further up above you implied I didn't even own a Pre. I am not sure why you manufacture information like this, but you are 100% incorrect in both cases. Further up you were sticking words in my mouth and then challenging me on something I never said. It may be convenient to paint me as an anti-webOS anti-Pre Apple-supporter to put my statements in a context that is comfortable for you (ie, to write them off), but that would be incorrect. I stand by previous statements that it's possible for intelligent qualified developers to criticize an SDK/platform while supporting it. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have an interest in the platform.

    Say what you will about iPhone lovers, but if they reacted the way you guys do every time an iPhone developer blogs a new rant against Apple (pretty much a daily occurrence), there would be mass hysteria. Yet the community moves on and some of the issues are even addressed. I was one of many who slammed Apple for their third party web-app approach on the original iPhone and griped about the lack of a native iPhone SDK, and thankfully Apple took those criticisms seriously. Pre owners can only benefit when developers have similar gripes about the webOS. It will lead to improvement.

    On the other hand, when you defend the SDK/platform against even the most qualified, thoughtful, pointed critiques, you deserve to suffer the consequences if the platform ultimately fails.
  4. #484  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    There are technical hurdles that cannot be overcome with some of the current issues (for instance no graphics acceleration, no protection for source code). It's not open for interpretation, these are facts. Anybody that claims to be getting over these hurdles is lying or they don't know what they are talking about.
    We need to separate the OS having graphic acceleration (GUI) and apps having access to graphic acceleration for 3D acceleration, etc... Two very different things.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  5. #485  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You know, you might get more answers to your questions if your responses weren't so antagonsitc and combative.

    We get it. You don't like the device. You're disappointed with it. Some of us aren't. Sorry that makes you mad, but it's life.
    Actually, I've been quite civil, especially in the response you quoted here. But it's BS like this that makes me WANT to get antagonistic and combative, for real.

    Fortunately for you, I won't. I'm not mad. Amazed that some people accept whatever is thrown their way without question, but hey...Palm thanks you.

    As you say, I get it. You're docile. Nothing necessarily wrong with that.

    My call log is not choppy, unless I try to scroll through it faster than I can read. I don't much see the point in that.
    I've let this one go long enough: Do you seriously try to read each entry if you know you're looking for a call from several days back or more than a week ago?

    I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of scrolling, don't you think? Palm could've just included a D-pad so you can keep pressing it down as you read each entry in the call log.
  6. #486  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And that's fine, I believe we'll have plenty of quality apps from which to choose.

    However, I think you're prejudging the market, since there is currently no vehicle in which to sell Palm Pre apps.
    Have you not read the responses from the respective developers of Facebook 3.0, Shazam, and Skype? That's not prejudging.
  7. #487  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    If the people who do not care outnumber those who do by a wide enough margin, Palm doesn't need to do anything. The market (specifically the cash register) dictates what Palm 'needs' to do. Fact is, in its current form, the Pre takes care of all the basic functions just fine. Certain defects and performance issues will be dealth with in time, I can guarantee it, but they don't need to make the phone scroll smoother (for example) because a small percentage care about that.

    If on the other hand, the phone isn't reliable, or the web browser crashes all the time, or the email app has compatibility issues, then yes, Palm will should fix those issues asap. However if with all that, the phone is selling like hotcakes, they really don't need to do anything.
    Way to aim low mate.

    I personally love this phone and don't see another coming close. Really.
    Today i drove to the gym streaming Pandora and rocking sprint navigation simultaneously. It does many things better than any device before it, but to say they don't need to make the phone scroll smoother? To not fix the small issues? ...most idiotic post. ever.
  8. #488  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Way to aim low mate.

    I personally love this phone and don't see another coming close. Really.
    Today i drove to the gym streaming Pandora and rocking sprint navigation simultaneously. It does many things better than any device before it, but to say they don't need to make the phone scroll smoother? To not fix the small issues? ...most idiotic post. ever.
    The real '*****' is the one who can't discuss or debate a difference of opinion without hurling insults.

    I'll say it again. The 'small issues' that bother you and some others on here are not a problem for many others. The phone scrolling smoothly is the last thing on my 'wish list' for the Pre.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  9. #489  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    There are technical hurdles that cannot be overcome with some of the current issues (for instance no graphics acceleration, no protection for source code). It's not open for interpretation, these are facts. Anybody that claims to be getting over these hurdles is lying or they don't know what they are talking about.
    Ahhh, so a developer that writes software that renders graphics fast enough (for that package) hasn't "overcome the hurdle"? Or the one that that writes code that's complex enough that he's not worried about protection, has he not "overcome that hurdle". My point is that anyone that writes software for the Pre, and makes money at it, is overcoming the hurdles that you keep saying are keeping people from writing for it.

    My bigger point is that in spite of your assertions that this will be relegated to "hobbyists", we are going to see some fantastic commercial software for the Pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    For the record I want to point out that you are incorrect in stating that I am not developing for the platform. I think further up above you implied I didn't even own a Pre. I am not sure why you manufacture information like this, but you are 100% incorrect in both cases.
    I didn't "manufacture" anything. I didn't imply you don't own a Pre, but I did say you aren't developing for it. You have stated yourself that the "hurdles" mentioned above prevents anyone but the "hobbyists" from developing for it. I may have inferred incorrectly, but I did not "manufacture" anything.

    So, to avoid confusion, I'll ask a simple question, are you currently developing applications for the Pre? Since you seem to think there's a "record" involved, a simple yes or no would be great...


    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    Further up you were sticking words in my mouth and then challenging me on something I never said. It may be convenient to paint me as an anti-webOS anti-Pre Apple-supporter to put my statements in a context that is comfortable for you (ie, to write them off), but that would be incorrect. I stand by previous statements that it's possible for intelligent qualified developers to criticize an SDK/platform while supporting it. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have an interest in the platform.
    I do paint you as an anti-webOS anti-Pre Apple-supporter because that is the way you come off. Now, if you will point me to a post or two of yours where you actually helped someone with a problem they were having with their Pre, or writing code or it, or using it, I'd change my opinion. However, when all I see from you are posts making sure not only to inform everyone else how inferior the Pre is, but to impugn the knowledge, integrity, or experience of anyone that disagrees with your opinions, then I'll call 'em as I see 'em.

    As I said, if you can show me different, I'll apologize and move on. One, maybe two posts, and a simple answer to the question about whether you are currently developing software for the Pre, that shouldn't be so difficult.
  10. #490  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    The real '*****' is the one who can't discuss or debate a difference of opinion without hurling insults.

    I'll say it again. The 'small issues' that bother you and some others on here are not a problem for many others. The phone scrolling smoothly is the last thing on my 'wish list' for the Pre.
    No one is insulting anyone. That post struck me as idiotic, i didn't call you an *****.

    No one here said anything about a wish list, this isn't about priority, it is simply about what needs to get done. period.
    You posit that Palm does not need to fix scrolling issues, or minor bugs. Read you own post.
  11. #491  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Actually, I've been quite civil, especially in the response you quoted here. But it's BS like this that makes me WANT to get antagonistic and combative, for real.

    Fortunately for you, I won't. I'm not mad. Amazed that some people accept whatever is thrown their way without question, but hey...Palm thanks you.

    As you say, I get it. You're docile. Nothing necessarily wrong with that.
    "Docile"... Another example of your "civil" discourse?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    I've let this one go long enough: Do you seriously try to read each entry if you know you're looking for a call from several days back or more than a week ago?

    I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of scrolling, don't you think? Palm could've just included a D-pad so you can keep pressing it down as you read each entry in the call log.
    Maybe I didn't say it clear enough. It does not jerk scroll on me, even when I scroll fast, unless I'm scrolling fast enough that I would not be able to discern the text on the log to see who it's from.
  12. #492  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Have you not read the responses from the respective developers of Facebook 3.0, Shazam, and Skype? That's not prejudging.
    I don't judge the possibilities by those that aren't developing, I judge it by those that are.
    And so much of this is subjective. I don't use Shazam or Skype, and only signed up with Facebook because of the Pre.
    I think the Treo was out for several years before there was a Facebook app, and when it came it, it was pretty shabby. I signed up with FB because I was getting a Pre, and almost dropped it when I couldn't use it with the Treo's app.
  13. #493  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Fortunately for you, I won't. I'm not mad. Amazed that some people accept whatever is thrown their way without question, but hey...Palm thanks you.

    As you say, I get it. You're docile. Nothing necessarily wrong with that.
    That whole "looking down my nose at you because I have higher standards" is impressive. Very impressive. You're my new hero.
  14. #494  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    No one is insulting anyone. That post struck me as idiotic, i didn't call you an *****.
    It's an insult nonetheless.


    No one here said anything about a wish list, this isn't about priority, it is simply about what needs to get done. period.
    That is your opinion. IMO, it's always about priorities and everyone has their own little 'wish list' of what they'd like to see done first, including Palm.



    You posit that Palm does not need to fix scrolling issues, or minor bugs. Read you own post.
    I think you're the one that need to read my post again.

    Basically I said, if the majority of people using the phone have no problems with the 'minor issues' that bother some, Palm doesn't need to 'fix' it. It's a difference of perspective. I don't see it as something needing a fix, while you do. I totally understand that, however, majority rules.

    I do believe though that with overall performance improvements (which is usually an on going thing with regard to OSs in general), the phone app among others, will benefit. Don't get me wrong, I want WEBOS to be faster, it's just that for me, it's not a priority. If it was, I would not have bought the Pre.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  15. #495  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    "Docile"... Another example of your "civil" discourse?
    How else would you refer to a group of people who easily and unquestioningly accept objective flaws?

    If I wanted to be a jerk, I would call you sheep or lemmings or even fanboys. But I used docile, so I'm a meanie. Very well.
  16. #496  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    ...
    For the record I want to point out that you are incorrect in stating that I am not developing for the platform. I think further up above you implied I didn't even own a Pre. I am not sure why you manufacture information like this, but you are 100% incorrect in both cases.
    ...
    For the "record":

    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    The obfuscators are not a solid solution to the problem -- a smart person can still distill it back to source
    ...
    I have not found a good way to handle this myself, and am holding back a couple app ideas from the platform.
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    ...
    There is no way I will port those apps to webOS as long as source code remains unprotected.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    ...
    I'll repeat what I mentioned in another thread -- the mobile dev shops I work with are all frustrated with the lack of capability in the webOS. The only thing I see going strong on the Pre right now are hobby apps.
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    We jumped into the iPhone market as soon as the SDK was released to developers
    ...
    Now fast forward to the Pre and webOS. There is also no market yet (but that's not important here either). So we look for promising factors that justify preparing for the coming market, and they are not really there, or the ones that are there are just not compelling enough. Some issues are downright show stoppers (ie, no protection for source code).

    So, even when we can take direct revenue from the webOS market, the potential is not big enough to justify the effort and some critical issues (protection of source code) actually make it a IP risk. No matter how I reason it or do the math, it doesn't make sense to divert our time/effort to the platform.
    ...
    Now please, clear it up if you want and say that you are (or aren't) currently developing for the Pre, but drop the nonsense that I'm "manufacturing" this stuff.
    My inference may have been incorrect, but it was reasonable.
  17. #497  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Ahhh,
    My bigger point is that in spite of your assertions that this will be relegated to "hobbyists", we are going to see some fantastic commercial software for the Pre.

    I didn't "manufacture" anything. I didn't imply you don't own a Pre, but I did say you aren't developing for it. You have stated yourself that the "hurdles" mentioned above prevents anyone but the "hobbyists" from developing for it. I may have inferred incorrectly, but I did not "manufacture" anything.
    So tt looks like my absence from this thread hasn't killed it. It is amusing though to see you (hparsons) accused of "presenting assumptions as facts". I really do admire your blind faith in the paltform. While I do not rule out some compelling 3rd party apps I am not as optimistic as you.
  18. #498  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    That whole "looking down my nose at you because I have higher standards" is impressive. Very impressive. You're my new hero.
    I guess a hit dog hollers? I wasn't talking to you, and I wasn't dismissing entire groups of people with derogatory generalizations - UNLIKE the constant rejoinders against "whiners" and such.

    There's plenty of people here who acknowledge the same things I bring up, accept them, hope things will change, and are just as excited and supportive of the device as you. They are not docile. I wouldn't personally call you that, either.
  19. #499  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't judge the possibilities by those that aren't developing, I judge it by those that are.
    And so much of this is subjective. I don't use Shazam or Skype, and only signed up with Facebook because of the Pre.
    Subjective? It is OBJECTIVELY true that Skype, Facebook, and Shazam are big-name apps that are popular across multiple platforms. For those developers to be sitting out WebOS even with an SDK out...that says something. Something NOT good.

    I scratch my head at people who say "Well, I don't use these services, so their importance is subjective."
  20. #500  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    How else would you refer to a group of people who easily and unquestioningly accept objective flaws?

    If I wanted to be a jerk, I would call you sheep or lemmings or even fanboys. But I used docile, so I'm a meanie. Very well.
    Like was mentioned earlier, maybe you're a hero for your "civil discourse". Sad that you think it's so, but I suppose that says more about you than anything else.
    BTW, it's also a little egocentric to believe that what consitutes a "major flaw" for you is "objectively" so.

    I have my issues with the Pre, but I'm not so myopic as to believe they are major issues for everyone. As far as "accepting" - I'm at a loss as how to understand how giving Palm (through Sprint) your money isn't accepting the "flaws", and insulting those that don't have a problem with them somehow is standing up against said "flaws"...

    You know what my single biggest gripe about the Pre is? The placement of the call button and hangup buttons on the phone app. When they're both in the same place like that it's begging for trouble. If there is any phone lag in the app after you hit the green call button, and you make the mistake of thinking the lag is really the phone still waiting for you to hit green call button and you press it again, you end up hanging up the call you just made. Who in the world would make an idiotic design blunder like that. I'd take my Pre back and start using my Treo again ... except the Treo did the same thing.

    So, instead of ranting and railing and threating to get whatever the cheapest hottest dumb phone is today that doesn't have that problem, or opening up a new thread daily about the flaw and hijacking every thread possible into how stupid that was, I took a different route. I trained my fingers to wait a second instead of the half second I trained them on with the Treo.

    You might call that "docile", but I think my solution has been more effective than yours.

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