View Poll Results: Are you happy with your Pre'?

Voters
280. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    197 70.36%
  • No

    40 14.29%
  • I believe that Palm will fix the issues in the next year

    37 13.21%
  • I am moving on

    28 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 441 to 460 of 4493
  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I only disagree in that (intentional or not) having unpolished or dumbed down core apps in hopes that developers will be inspired to do better versions is good.

    Personally, and no offense to NaNplayer because it does put the palm version to shame, I'm not buying another music player app when the device that i spent 200 or more on should include a superior native one. That's old Palm OS/WM thinking.
    Absolutely. I'm fine with paying for apps for additional capabilities, but I don't consider being able to move through a song an additional capability worth paying for. And all respect to the developer of the Music Player Remix, but it's too buggy right now for me to use as well.
  2. #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think a 256mb computer that fits in the palm of your hand, serves as a phone, basic audio/video player, includes both WiFi and a wireless modem, should be expected to have "superior" native apps. Build the device, solidify the OS, and give everyone a rich platform to work on. I'm willing to pay for good apps.
    So if the Pre came with Blazer instead of the WebKit browser, that'd be ok with you?
  3. #443  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is right along the lines of my thoughts. If a vendor includes an application with their device and/or OS that is very good, there is little incentive for others to develop a "competing" product. Thus, what the vendor gives you pretty much becomes what everyone gets.

    On the other hand, if a vendor does just enough to whet the appetite so other developers will say "Hey, I can improve on that", then consumers get a choice. They can buy NanoPlayer which has ABC, or they can buy OtherPlayer which has XYZ.

    If the inital product is "good enough", then developers may simply look at it and say "Nah, no one will pay for an upgrade. The base system does too much".

    Databk on the PalmOS is a prime example of that. They took the basic functionality of the PIM on the Palm devices, and added to it, becoming the new "standard". I suspect though, that if Palm had originally had all of that functionality, we would never have seen some of the other PIMs that were avaiable.

    The other thing I really like about the player in question - maybe it will silence some of the naysayers about what can and cannot be done with WebOS. Pretty impressive looking to me, and the developer said in the video that they'll be working on video later.
    Aww man. I'm trying to work up enough enthusiasm here so i can put on my palm shades and shake my poms poms along with you.

    I really can't though. And i think the iphone has shaped expectations in smartphones too much. The average buyer isn't going to want a phone with subpar core apps with an option to purchase better so that its up to standards.
  4. #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So if the Pre came with Blazer instead of the WebKit browser, that'd be ok with you?
    No. Because Blazer was functionally flawed. The media players currently on the Pre just don't have many "extras", but they play music and video well. Blazer was a poor web browser. It wasn't particularly lacking in features, it just wasn't a good browser.

    The browser on the Pre is not exactly feature-rich; however, much like the music and video players, it shows what can be done. I fully expect that down the road, we'll see more powerful browsers offered.
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think a 256mb computer that fits in the palm of your hand, serves as a phone, basic audio/video player, includes both WiFi and a wireless modem, should be expected to have "superior" native apps. Build the device, solidify the OS, and give everyone a rich platform to work on. I'm willing to pay for good apps.
    If that phone was free and didn't cost as much as the competition that does have superior native apps, then you might have something.
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Aww man. I'm trying to work up enough enthusiasm here so i can put on my palm shades and shake my poms poms along with you.

    I really can't though. And i think the iphone has shaped expectations in smartphones too much. The average buyer isn't going to want a phone with subpar core apps with an option to purchase better so that its up to standards.
    Maybe it's just a different background. Possibly the fact that I've never gotten to bent out of shape one way or another over media players. However, even in other areas, I've been willing to pay extra for good apps. I bought every version of Datebk since Datebk3 (maybe it was Datebk2), because it was well worth the $10 or so to have a good quality product. I also bought DateMate (allows you to easily put in anniversaries, birthdays, etc, on the PalmOS). Again, because I was willing to pay extra to beef up the core apps.

    Please don't take my "media player comment" too much to heart. I do want a Palm Pre version of SlingPlayer!!!
  7. #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No. Because Blazer was functionally flawed. The media players currently on the Pre just don't have many "extras", but they play music and video well. Blazer was a poor web browser. It wasn't particularly lacking in features, it just wasn't a good browser.

    The browser on the Pre is not exactly feature-rich; however, much like the music and video players, it shows what can be done. I fully expect that down the road, we'll see more powerful browsers offered.
    That's some amazing hair-splitting you got there.

    The music and video players on the Pre play SOME media well. Others, not at all.
    Blazer rendered SOME mobile sites well. Others, not at all.

    And the media players on Pre ARE particularly lacking in features, and are NOT good media players.
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    If that phone was free and didn't cost as much as the competition that does have superior native apps, then you might have something.
    I don't follow the iPhone, are there quality third party media player apps?
  9. #449  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think a 256mb computer that fits in the palm of your hand, serves as a phone, basic audio/video player, includes both WiFi and a wireless modem, should be expected to have "superior" native apps. Build the device, solidify the OS, and give everyone a rich platform to work on. I'm willing to pay for good apps.
    Here's where being a Palm proponent has shadowed your logic.

    It's ok for Palm to release a half baked music player to whet the appetite of developers? I am not willing to pay for a music application and a majority simply will not.
    Some on principle, others already paid 200 for a phone and simply cannot afford to shell out more for features that should have been included.

    This isn't bashing Palm, but blind apologies for the lack of a scrubber in the music app simply isn't something that should be accepted.

    This isn't windows mobile nor should it be. This should not be turned into a "base".
    Thats the reason Windos Mobile has failed. Sure it has a great developer base and there are 50+ music players that trounce WMP, but no one uses Windows Mobile because people want a packaged experence, not a hobby or a base, or a upgrade device.

    This should be a finished product. period. The minute that kind of thinking catches on and the minute Palm adopts the Winmo way of thinking is the minute WebOS will fail.

    There is a reason apple is successful and there is a reason the people running palm now are from apple.
    Last edited by VickMackey; 09/02/2009 at 10:28 AM.
  10. #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    That's some amazing hair-splitting you got there.

    The music and video players on the Pre play SOME media well. Others, not at all.
    Blazer rendered SOME mobile sites well. Others, not at all.

    And the media players on Pre ARE particularly lacking in features, and are NOT good media players.
    My complaint about Blazer wasn't on how it handled sites designed for mobile, my complaint was how it handled sites that weren't. Lots of other technical issues as well, but my point is made.

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about how well the media players actually play the media. I did say that they were lacking in features, not that they weren't.
  11. #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Here's where being a Palm proponent has shadowed your logic.

    It's ok for Palm to release a half baked music player to whet the appetite of developers? I am not willing to pay for a music application and a majority simply will not.
    Some on principle, others already paid 200 for a phone and simply cannot afford to shell out more for features that should have been included.

    This isn't bashing Palm, but blind apologies for the lack of a scrubber in the music app simply isn't something that should be accepted.

    This isn't windows mobile nor should it be. This should not be turned into a "base".
    Thats the reason Windos Mobile has failed. Sure it has a great developer base and there are 50+ music players that trounce WMP, but no one uses Windows Mobile because people want a packaged experence, not a hobby or a base, or a upgrade device.

    This should be a finished product. period. The minute that kind of thinking catches on and the minute Palm adopts the Winmo way of thinking is the minute WebOS will fail.

    There is a reason apple is successful and there is a reason the people running palm now are from apple.
    It actually has nothing to do with being a Palm proponent. I really dislike Windows, but they included what, in my opinion, was a half-baked text editor. I pay for a good one. Same logic applies.
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    #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post

    I'm thinking Palm is just focused and using a lot of resources trying to get to multiple carriers which is also costly at first. They're also trying to get the app catalog ready. Just comes at the expense of slow progress on OS updates. One could argue though that they do need more sales & a working app catalog worse than they need to rush out updates to what is a "good enough" OS for many right now.

    I just hope they can survive long enough to do it. Apple had help from AT&T..longterm help. Android had tmobile pretty long term which will make other carrier launches easier. RIM has a longterm exclusive locked up with Verizon on the Storm. While Palm chose (along with sprint) to do a short 6 month stint.

    In essence, we got a cash strapped company with new OS, new product, with hardly any old revenues coming in trying to get on many carriers at once, each with different specs & requirements..WHILE focusing on OS updates, getting a working app catalog in place, coming out with a new form factor (EOS), get developers interested, etc.
    Cardfan, your have a good point.
    My 2 cents , PALM might want to make extra buck on Verizon.
    They have done the hardwork on CDMA Pre for SPRINT , enabling it for Verizon might be the low hanging fruit for them.

    And it will probably move several hundreds of thousands Pres ( if not millions :-). That will be get them going.

    I say PALM is doing amazing job without a long term support ( like you mentioned) from a single carrier.

    I bet they are putting more bets on that Pixie thing , which can appeal to one and all BB owners.
  13. #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    It actually has nothing to do with being a Palm proponent. I really dislike Windows, but they included what, in my opinion, was a half-baked text editor. I pay for a good one. Same logic applies.
    Maybe you should demand/expect more.
    Windows Failed me. My Phone crashed constantly, touch screen was horrible. web surfing was abyssmal, user intnerface was cluncky.
    So i moved onto WebOS. I could have purchased all kinds of stop gaps to those problems but why? If there are better solutions people will move on.
  14. #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Here's where being a Palm proponent has shadowed your logic.

    It's ok for Palm to release a half baked music player to whet the appetite of developers? I am not willing to pay for a music application and a majority simply will not.
    Some on principle, others already paid 200 for a phone and simply cannot afford to shell out more for features that should have been included.

    This isn't bashing Palm, but blind apologies for the lack of a scrubber in the music app simply isn't something that should be accepted.

    This isn't windows mobile nor should it be. This should not be turned into a "base".
    Thats the reason Windos Mobile has failed. Sure it has a great developer base and there are 50+ music players that trounce WMP, but no one uses Windows Mobile because people want a packaged experence, not a hobby or a base, or a upgrade device.

    This should be a finished product. period. The minute that kind of thinking catches on and the minute Palm adopts the Winmo way of thinking is the minute WebOS will fail.

    There is a reason apple is successful and there is a reason the people running palm now are from apple.
    Maybe the problem is having a history with Palm that shades expectations? I mean, isn't this how they've always operated; just build a good shell of an OS and then allow others to add the functionality? Back in the day I never gave a second thought to buying an upgraded PIM application, and like hparsons has said, I was happy to have choices. That may not excuse all the details (like the scrubber in the music app), but I'm just not all that surprised by it. This is Palm, not Apple.

    I mean, maybe when they say they're not competing with iPhone they actually mean it. It's always felt like a company that was closer to it's users than to developers (hence all of the old skool Palm guys feeling like they're abandoned now) and seems very accepting of the idea of Homebrew developers. If they don't have the resources to finish all the details themselves maybe they'll just buy up some of the Homebrews and include them in an update. That would be good all around.
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    This isn't bashing Palm, but blind apologies for the lack of a scrubber in the music app simply isn't something that should be accepted.

    This isn't windows mobile nor should it be. This should not be turned into a "base".
    Thats the reason Windos Mobile has failed. Sure it has a great developer base and there are 50+ music players that trounce WMP, but no one uses Windows Mobile because people want a packaged experence, not a hobby or a base, or a upgrade device.

    This should be a finished product. period. The minute that kind of thinking catches on and the minute Palm adopts the Winmo way of thinking is the minute WebOS will fail.

    There is a reason apple is successful and there is a reason the people running palm now are from apple.
    I actually find this to be a pretty compelling argument. In general, the Pre should be a finished product--consumers shouldn't have to shell out additional cash to enjoy its goodness. Built-in apps should be attractive, well thought-out, essentially bug free, and high performance. Except for a handful of notable missing features throughout, in my opinion, the Pre is there.

    But in fact, in addition to being pleasing out of the box, it also needs to be a base. And really, the solid foundation is more important than the artifice on top.

    But one man's artifice is another's foundation I suppose. If you listen to longer audio such as audio books, the lack of a scrubber can be bothersome, especially since it doesn't remember where you were the last time you played that file. It's a notable lack, especially since it would be so easy to fix. That's really indisputable.

    But putting myself in Palm's shoes, I'm having a hard time feeling embarrassed about it. I think it may be possible that they took the simplicity ethos a bit too far and actually chose to leave out some things (like the scrubber). I think this is really what scares people around here deep down inside: we're afraid that Palm won't fix these lacking features not because they can't but because they won't. Hopefully, if they took it too far, they'll get feedback from their customers and they'll find a better balance.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  16. #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Maybe the problem is having a history with Palm that shades expectations? I mean, isn't this how they've always operated; just build a good shell of an OS and then allow others to add the functionality? Back in the day I never gave a second thought to buying an upgraded PIM application, and like hparsons has said, I was happy to have choices. That may not excuse all the details (like the scrubber in the music app), but I'm just not all that surprised by it. This is Palm, not Apple.

    I mean, maybe when they say they're not competing with iPhone they actually mean it. It's always felt like a company that was closer to it's users than to developers (hence all of the old skool Palm guys feeling like they're abandoned now) and seems very accepting of the idea of Homebrew developers. If they don't have the resources to finish all the details themselves maybe they'll just buy up some of the Homebrews and include them in an update. That would be good all around.
    Good points. Keep in mind one thing though, We are talking about Palm here and most consumers won't know Palm's history. All they will know/see is that the Iphone has a stellar music player and the Pre does not, and so on and so forth.
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Maybe the problem is having a history with Palm that shades expectations? I mean, isn't this how they've always operated; just build a good shell of an OS and then allow others to add the functionality? Back in the day I never gave a second thought to buying an upgraded PIM application, and like hparsons has said, I was happy to have choices. That may not excuse all the details (like the scrubber in the music app), but I'm just not all that surprised by it. This is Palm, not Apple.

    I mean, maybe when they say they're not competing with iPhone they actually mean it. It's always felt like a company that was closer to it's users than to developers (hence all of the old skool Palm guys feeling like they're abandoned now) and seems very accepting of the idea of Homebrew developers. If they don't have the resources to finish all the details themselves maybe they'll just buy up some of the Homebrews and include them in an update. That would be good all around.
    Giving developers spotlights and application opportunities is one thing, and a good thing at that. But plain unfinished apps with context-free menus, bare bones functionality, and lag (especially the calendar and phone apps) is quite another, and a bad thing at that.

    It's not like Palm released the source code and asked the public to finish the apps for them, although that might not be a bad idea if even more embarrassing. Another problem is the uncertainty. Maybe Palm will buy up some homebrews. Maybe they'll shut them out. Maybe they'll finish their apps. Maybe they won't. Who knows?

    People who buy the device and have issues with this may not want to wait around to find out. That's a problem, and most certainly a factor in the subpar sales.
  18. #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Built-in apps should be...essentially bug free, and high performance. Except for a handful of notable missing features throughout, in my opinion, the Pre is there.
    Being that the web browser, calendar, phone app, camera, and video app all fail to meet this criteria, how do you figure the Pre is "there"?
  19. #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Good points. Keep in mind one thing though, We are talking about Palm here and most consumers won't know Palm's history. All they will know/see is that the Iphone has a stellar music player and the Pre does not, and so on and so forth.
    Agreed. But it's still early.
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Maybe you should demand/expect more.
    Windows Failed me. My Phone crashed constantly, touch screen was horrible. web surfing was abyssmal, user intnerface was cluncky.
    So i moved onto WebOS. I could have purchased all kinds of stop gaps to those problems but why? If there are better solutions people will move on.
    In my case, I was talking about Windows, not WinMo. However, since you mention it, I don't think Windows Mobile's failure was in not providing robust core apps, I think it was in a buggy OS that was bloated, crashed frequently, and didn't lend itself well to a mobile environment.

    I expected WebOS to be stable. So far, it's reasonably so, though I expect some improvement. I also expected it to be a solid development platform. So far, I like what I see.

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