View Poll Results: Are you happy with your Pre'?

Voters
280. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    197 70.36%
  • No

    40 14.29%
  • I believe that Palm will fix the issues in the next year

    37 13.21%
  • I am moving on

    28 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 401 to 420 of 4493
  1. #401  
    The iPod Touch is a very slim device, and so probably wouldn't be a big deal to carry even if you had to improvise something. Hell, you could stuff it against your leg in a sock if you wanted. Or get a belt pouch.

    It also doesn't come with the baggage of a more expensive AT&T plan, so even though it'd be a big cash outlay at first, I'd say you'd come out on top in the long run keeping the Pre and just biting the bullet on a 32GB iPod Touch.
  2. gbp
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    #402  
    Guys give up, the phone has it all.
  3. #403  
    Quote Originally Posted by TDSComputer View Post
    reading this post, I could hear the band playing "Stars and Stripes Forever" and see this guy waving a flag. You do have a point, though!
    Lol, my next patriotic post will contain sound, lol..

    I was more or less venting towards consumers in general. I noticed all of these people blah blah whining about their phone not copy and pasting. Go to a desert combat zone with no cell phone for an extended period of time, away from our American fantasy and see the other world we have around us, then come back and find something to complain about!! That's my stand......
    Keep Brewing All Ye Homebrew Underground!
  4. PDAGuy#AC's Avatar
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    #404  
    Great post. Hope it works.
  5. #405  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Here's the real irony here. You're so busy making claims about what others do and do not know, you ignore what you yourself have said in the past.

    Frankly, I was unaware that the Pre even had a JVM until I was told about it on this forum. Unlike you, instead of flailing about and insisting that I was right, I asked questions, and learned. The really funny thing is, especially in light of your claim that I cannot "discern the difference between Java & Javascript", you were the one that told me that it does indeed have a JVM. Check it out, but I'm reasonably sure you'll have some lame comeback, since you're never wrong.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...bk6-pre-4.html

    BTW, not only do WebOS Apps have access to the JVM, many of them use it. Granted, these are Palm included apps, but they are core WebOS apps. A quick glance shows that the Calendar, Contacts App, Mail App, and Messaging App all rely on Java code running in the background.

    To me one of the more promising aspects of this is that the database engine also seems to rely on the JVM. This may enable some developers deeper access to integration between apps. Don't know (as I said, I'm not a programmer), but it sure looks like it to me.
    I am not sure where I have ignored what I said in the past. As you have yourself have pointed out, I have been aware for some time that WebOS includes a JVM and some Java code. Based on the stack trace that was posted, it appeared to be running a webserver plugin. It doesn't surprise me that database engine is running on the JVM and it wouldn't surprise me if I discovered some other parts of of the Mojo framework were also written in Java. Its often much quicker to write something in Java than to implemented in in C or one of its OO derivatives. However, all this does not alter the fact that the only programming language supported by Palm's SDK is Javascript. Any internal implementation details of the SQL engine or any other part of the OS are irrelevent unless you are writing homebrew apps for users who want to root their Pre. That's not likely to be a large user base.

    As for what you do or don't know, you admit you are not a programmer but even so you seem to be making plenty of assertions about what the platform is capable of (such as "one of the more promising aspects of this is that the database engine also seems to rely on the JVM"). You should really leave the programming/SDK arguments to those who know what they are talking about (i.e. programmers). We all know you love your Pre, but you would be a more effective WebOS advocate if you stuck to arguements you could credibly make. Right now you are just "flailing about".
  6. #406  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I am not sure where I have ignored what I said in the past.
    I think you're deliberately being obtuse. You stated, in this thread, that I was unable to "discern the difference between Java and Javascript", and continued to bleat that refrain after I acknowledged that I typed "Java" when I meant to type "Javascript". Again, insisting that I was unable to discern the difference, and implying that I was making an excuse instead of acknowledging the lack of knowledge on my part.

    Yet, you and I discussed the very issue previously.


    ...
    As for what you do or don't know, you admit you are not a programmer but even so you seem to be making plenty of assertions about what the platform is capable of (such as "one of the more promising aspects of this is that the database engine also seems to rely on the JVM"). You should really leave the programming/SDK arguments to those who know what they are talking about (i.e. programmers). We all know you love your Pre, but you would be a more effective WebOS advocate if you stuck to arguements you could credibly make. Right now you are just "flailing about".
    Actually, you will note that I said seems to (turns out, I was right). Personally, I've never allowed my lack of professional status in a particular field to stop me from learning. That diversity has served me well You don't have to be a programmer to be able to learn what a device can do. You only have to be willing to learn.

    I'll also note that you pulled your elitist "leave it to the xxxx" before, only that time you were noting that I shoudn't comment since I wasn't an engineer. However, I am. You then started babbling some nonsense about configuring printers, which I don't do. Obviously, anyone that disagrees with you is somehow "not worthy". I think I'll pass though, since your opinion really doesn't matter.

    I will defer to those that know about programming and SDK on the Pre, but I don't place you in that category. As far as credibility goes, you lost yours when you disuputed the claims of the CTO from Palm. I'm sure you feel your experience with the emulator eclipses his experience, but I don't agree.
    Finally, it's a user's forum, not a technical experts forum. Were it not so, I suspect neither you nor I would be here. So, as a user, I'll continue to express my opinions as I see fit.
  7. #407  
    I believe this should be a required read for all forum members/new members of precentral. Sticky?
  8. #408  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, you will note that I said seems to (turns out, I was right). Personally, I've never allowed my lack of professional status in a particular field to stop me from learning. That diversity has served me well You don't have to be a programmer to be able to learn what a device can do. You only have to be willing to learn.

    ...

    I will defer to those that know about programming and SDK on the Pre, but I don't place you in that category. As far as credibility goes, you lost yours when you disuputed the claims of the CTO from Palm. I'm sure you feel your experience with the emulator eclipses his experience, but I don't agree.
    Finally, it's a user's forum, not a technical experts forum. Were it not so, I suspect neither you nor I would be here. So, as a user, I'll continue to express my opinions as I see fit.
    Ok, so lets pretend you do know the difference between Java & Javascript. Perhaps you could explain the differences for those who don't? Your professional status and desire to learn are not the issue here. It's your lack of knowledge which leads to a lack of credibility. Its true that you don't have to be a programmer to learn what a device can do from the end user perspective but if you are going to argue about the merits of the Software Development Kit (that's what an SDK is), some actual experiance with SDKs is required. You, by your own admission, have none. It appears to me that you only defer to those who think that the Pre and WebOS are wonderful. It seems your desire to learn only goes so far.

    As for the CTO of Palm. I would not dispute that he knows more about the WebOS platform than anyone outside of Palm. However, any claims he makes about WebOS are probably going to be even more biased than yours. I say probably because I am not entirely sure about that point.

    Still to humor you lets go through the statements of his that you quoted:

    "Palm webOS is based upon an innovative design that integrates a window-based modern operating system with a web technology runtime that allows youto build applications using common web languages and tools, without the restriction of working within a web browser"

    Which restrictions is he talking about? Do you know. What's the difference between a web technology runtime and a web browser (aside from a bookmarks page and a URL address bar).

    "Applications are built using JavaScript, HTML, and CSS, and while similar to web applications, webOS applications are actually native applications. "

    What makes them "native" applications. The fact that they don't load from a remote filesystem via a webserver? Most developers would consider Native applications to be those developed in language that compiles to the CPU's native instruction set and had direct access to native APIs (in this case linux system calls). FYI Java apps are not normally described as Native either. OTOH Java apps are native to the JVM and browser apps are native to the browser so ultimately the term has little meaning.
  9. wodin's Avatar
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    #409  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think that was the point, no need to be embarrassed. In light of the thread, and the non-Pre owners trying to reinforce the concept, it might be worth repeating from time to time. It's really not "an embarrasssing time for Palm".
    I think it's the iPhoney who should be embarassed. After all the the hype, and it still can't compare to a lowly Palm, you know, "that little company that's on it's last legs"
  10. #410  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Ok, so lets pretend you do know the difference between Java & Javascript. Perhaps you could explain the differences for those who don't? Your professional status and desire to learn are not the issue here. It's your lack of knowledge which leads to a lack of credibility. Its true that you don't have to be a programmer to learn what a device can do from the end user perspective but if you are going to argue about the merits of the Software Development Kit (that's what an SDK is), some actual experiance with SDKs is required. You, by your own admission, have none. It appears to me that you only defer to those who think that the Pre and WebOS are wonderful. It seems your desire to learn only goes so far.
    That's the problem with your posts on this forum. In your zeal to prove others wrong who simply have a differing opinion (and these issues are indeed opinions, or else it wouldn't matter what "most" developers say), you assume much, and ignore really important facts.

    First of all, you made the statement "some actual experiance (sic) with SKDs is required. You, by your own admission, have none".

    So, I'll play your silly game, if you really want to, as soon as you show me where I ever said I have "no experience" with the SDK.

    I'll repeat what I did say. I'm not a developer. Nor am I a programmer. I'm also not a mechanic, but I've taken my Goldwing apart down to the engine and tranny, and other motorcycles (when I was younger, and braver with such things) down to the pistons. That doesn't make me a mechanic.

    In the past, I've actually made a little money writing a couple sharware applications for a now-defunct computer. I made a lot of money writing database applications for a still current database system. I saw the writing on the wall, and decided I did not want to be a dba. Nowadays, if someone asks me what I know about db's, I typically will smile and say "as little as I can". The experience doesn't make me a dba, a programmer, or a developer; however, it doesn't mean I've forgotten everything of what I knew.

    So, yes, I will be more than happy to share what I know of the differences between Java and Javascript, (some of which is opinion, and some of which is simple fact), as soon as you do one of two things.

    1. Show me where I ever said I have no experience with SDKs or programming
    2. Acknowledge that you made an assumption, and presented it as fact
  11. #411  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, yes, I will be more than happy to share what I know of the differences between Java and Javascript, (some of which is opinion, and some of which is simple fact), as soon as you do one of two things.

    1. Show me where I ever said I have no experience with SDKs or programming
    2. Acknowledge that you made an assumption, and presented it as fact
    You have said many times that you are "not a programmer". You did not say "I am not a professional developer" nor did you qualify your statement with "but I have made money writing some programs". I think most people earned money writing programs would typically not claim that they were not a programmer.

    What assumption would you like me to acknowledge that I presented as fact? I do acknowledge expressing some opinions but I think it was you who expressed contrary opinions as facts.

    One more question for you. You said in an earlier post:

    "To me one of the more promising aspects of this is that the database engine also seems to rely on the JVM. This may enable some developers deeper access to integration between apps. Don't know (as I said, I'm not a programmer), but it sure looks like it to me."

    Why would the fact that the database engine was Java based be a "promising aspect"? Why would it allow "developers deeper access"? You admit you "Don't know" but you must have some reason for thinking that.
  12. #412  
    I think both of you need to relax this is like an afternoon soap opera. LOL
  13. #413  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ...
    I think you're deliberately being obtuse.
    ...
    I haven't kept up on this thread at all. I actually am surprised it is still going. I had to give this though.

    Hulu - Family Guy: Being Obtuse

    Oh yeah ... to stay on topic ... this is not an embarrassing time for Palm.
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    #414  
    I'm reminded of that old Klingon adage, "CRO-MAAT!"

    Roughly translated: "The perfect is the enemy of the good enough!"
  15. #415  
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwade View Post
    I think both of you need to relax this is like an afternoon soap opera. LOL
    Yeah, I really debated whether or not to even respond (again). However, it gets old on this forum from time to time, when you have a few folks that don't even own a Pre that are bound and determined that they are going to inform the world just how awful the device is. If you dare disagree with them, then that immediately makes you an ignorant fool, and thus unworthy of expressing your opinion.

    I'd say guys like AD here, and S219 would probably be well-advised to not get a Pre. Guys like me would probably be well-advised to not look for software from them any time soon.

    However, this is a Pre forum, and I believe (firmly, as you can probably tell), that those of us that use and enjoy the device should be free to say so.
  16. gbp
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    #416  
    Yes give up guys,
    Both of you are knowledgeable.
    Long story short , Pre is selling well ( I will leave the definition well to you) that PALM ( the company) is happy.
    The stock is up. They are coming up with new devices on WebOS. So everything is cool.

    For those of you having issues with the phone , please return it or exchange it. This is the best way for you to let PALM know of your issues.
  17. #417  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'd say guys like AD here, and S219 would probably be well-advised to not get a Pre. Guys like me would probably be well-advised to not look for software from them any time soon.
    It's true that you are unlikely to see any Pre apps from me any time soon. As for buying a Pre I do not rule it out entirely. A few things would have to happen first of course. At a minimum, I would need an unlocked GSM version that supported AT&T's 3G bands and a version of the Classic app that supported Hotsync. I would also like to see a better email app (with search and the ability to push email from multiple folders), the ability to sync tasks and improvements in contact syncing.

    I still wouldn't develop apps for it but I would certainly root it and install the tethering app plus what other tweaks I though it needed.
  18. gbp
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    #418  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post

    However, this is a Pre forum, and I believe (firmly, as you can probably tell), that those of us that use and enjoy the device should be free to say so.
    I agree with you , its a Pre forum i.e. Pre owners forum.
    But folks who don't own a Pre can contribute too, as long as they keep arguments about what is missing in WebOS to a brief.

    I am still laughin about this guy's post about how the iPhone jailbreaking community is far smarter than the folks here at homebrew.
  19. #420  
    You could go with the iPod and use MyTether on the Pre with it so you're always connected. I'd wait till September 9th before you get one, though. Apple is releasing new iPods(with camera, possibly!).

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