View Poll Results: Are you happy with your Pre'?

Voters
280. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    197 70.36%
  • No

    40 14.29%
  • I believe that Palm will fix the issues in the next year

    37 13.21%
  • I am moving on

    28 10.00%
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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    ...
    one thing that does irk me is all or nothing sync which may or may not be facebook's design or Palm's philosophy.
    ...
    I've really thought about this one a lot, and might even start doing some investigating on my own.

    Believe it or not, I was never a Facebook user until I decided to get a Pre. Since it "integrated" (my term at the time), I decided to get set up before the Pre came out.

    I was surprised when the Pre first came out that there was no way to pick a category to sync with, instead of just syncing with all of the user IDs you've "befriended".

    However, it's my understanding (not sure I'm remembering correctly though) that the categories in Facebook are relatively new. Even if that's not the case, it does bear looking at.

    Each system "out there", EAS, Facebook, Linkedin, Google Contacts, AOL, etc, will all use a diferent method of categorizing. The Pre's interface would have to have a method to standardize not only all of those, but all of the various others that we know are coming, but haven't arrived yet (Yahoo comes to mind).

    I think the categorization for multiple systems is likely a little more complex than many of us are giving credit for. I suspect Palm's working on a standardization before they give us that.

    Maybe I'll dig around some on the contact app, and see what I can find.
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't mind being a "staunch defender"; however, to say I don't recognize flaws would be a mis-statement. I do, they are simply not "deal breakers" to me.

    In addition, there are those that harp on flaws as if they are system wide. Many are not. For instance, the "oreo effect". No doubt that it exists, there have been too many instances of it to ignore it. However, not all systems have the problem. Same with the "phone app" lag.

    Then there are issues such as "working with the cloud". Is that a flaw? Nope, not in my opinion. It's a design decision.

    Things like Palm not duplicating the functionality of the PIM in the previous devices. Again, a flaw, or a design decision. I say it's a design decision.

    The issue becomes when some on here insist that makes me, or someone that feels the same as I, some type of "fanboy". Sorry, just ain't so.

    Tongue-in-cheek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Tongue-in-cheek is a term used to refer to humor in which a statement, or an entire fictional work, is not meant to be taken seriously, but its sarcasm is subtle. The origin of its usage comes from when Spanish minstrels would perform for various dukes in the 18th century; these dukes would silently chastise the silliness of the minstrel's performances by placing their tongue firmly to the side of their cheek. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as "Ironic, slyly humorous; not meant to be taken seriously".
    Completely agree. I'm also pretty much a staunch supporter of Palm. Let's face it, Palm's a "little guy". I've always been a sucker for the little guys.

    Also, much of the griping is just so minor as to seem to be for the sole purpose of bashing. What's the point? If you don't like the device, go find something you do like. Anyway, many of the grips seem underivestigated. In particular with software issues. For example, people complaining about universal search in contacts often turn out to not understand how universal search works to look up contacts or how to edit contacts to help universal search (such as editing a contact's name). Then there's the "Phone Lag", which doesn't exist. The phone pics up immediately and it's possible to start talking right away. So what if the dialer screen takes time to appear. The phone is still working. The facebook "all contacts or none" issue just doesn't seem like an issue at all. I always use universal search to find contacts anyway so don't care that there are people in contacts whom I never call. It's not like I have to scroll through several hundred names to get to the contact I need to call.

    To me these sorts of things are extremely minor. Overall, no smartphone I've had in the past has come close to making me as productive as the Pre. Hence, my fanboiism is well earned.
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Then there are issues such as "working with the cloud". Is that a flaw? Nope, not in my opinion. It's a design decision.

    Things like Palm not duplicating the functionality of the PIM in the previous devices. Again, a flaw, or a design decision. I say it's a design decision.
    I don't think anyone objects to WebOS "working with the cloud". It's the not working without the cloud that is the concern. Some would call that a flawed design decision.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I don't think anyone objects to WebOS "working with the cloud". It's the not working without the cloud that is the concern. Some would call that a flawed design decision.
    I don't understand. It works fine without the cloud.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't understand. It works fine without the cloud.
    Sort of. You have to buy extra software like Chapura and even then you still can't sync tasks or notes. The only way to get task syncing is with an MS Exchange account.
    Last edited by ADGrant; 08/26/2009 at 12:45 PM.
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    Then there's the "Phone Lag", which doesn't exist. The phone pics up immediately and it's possible to start talking right away. So what if the dialer screen takes time to appear. The phone is still working.
    Do you guys not read?

    The phone app lags multiple ways, not just in the dialer screen coming up.

    Scrolling through the call log? Choppiness, lag, and blank entries.
    Closing when ending a call? Lag.
    Using the onscreen dialer when you don't want to open the slider? Occasional lag.
    The proximity sensor not shutting off in time when answering a call so you're looking at Contacts page for who you're talking to instead of the phone app? That's lag, too.
    Trying to get back to the phone app from the said Contacts page and watching it slowly appear with a low framerate? Lag.

    These aren't isolated or imaginary issues. Lots of people here have confirmed the problems under various conditions, hence the dual threads about how much the phone app sucks.

    What you fail to realize is that it is only because I like the Pre so much in so many other ways do these issues frustrate me. If I thought the phone was a POS, I'd have returned it within the 30 days or not bothered at all. It gets a remarkable amount of things right for a first time, 1.0 product. It really does.

    But having a substandard phone functionality on a flagship smartPHONE is inexcusable. Period. If nothing else is working perfectly in a 1.0 smartphone product, this should be.
  7. gbp
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    #207  
    I agree with your points.

    Now the bad ,
    Where did PALM embarrassed us ?
    Is it the lag. ?
  8. gbp
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    #208  
    Before we jump into debate , the expectations of the response times should be defined. For most people a two second response time is okay.

    Defining LAG is most important here.

    For those individuals with ADD a sub 1 second response is needed.

    For the rest a 3 second is fine ( me thinks).
  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    I agree with your points.

    Now the bad ,
    Where did PALM embarrassed us ?
    Is it the lag. ?
    Speaking strictly for myself, I have been embarrassed when I use the Pre around friends (especially my many iPhone-worshipping ones) to answer a phone call and one of those issues crops up causing me to miss the call or have to say hello multiple times not knowing whether a call has been picked up or not (Yeah, I forgot the bug when you open the slider to answer a call, it doesn't pickup, but onscreen call answer/reject buttons go away anyway).

    I mean, overall system lag is part of the price you pay for multitasking, and I'm willing to give Palm time to get their resources together to actually use the GPU and stop wasting the potential of the hardware THEY DESIGNED (another embarrassment, but on a smaller scale, I guess).

    But having to repeatedly explain to my wife why I didn't answer her call the first time around or hoping that answering an incoming call goes smoothly when I'm in public.....that stuff is embarrassing.
  10. gbp
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    #210  
    mikah,
    I am with you on the dialer APP.

    I have Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) when it comes to dialer app.

    Especially with the lack of voice command , this lag is wasting my time
  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Before we jump into debate , the expectations of the response times should be defined. For most people a two second response time is okay.

    Defining LAG is most important here.

    For those individuals with ADD a sub 1 second response is needed.

    For the rest a 3 second is fine ( me thinks).
    It's ADD to expect that I can scroll through a call log against a plain green background with tiny thumbnails for certain entries smoothly with no choppiness and no redrawing and gaps on a ARM Cortex A8-based OMAP 3-powered phone, which TI has claimed provides "laptop-type processing"? Really?

    Again, I ask...how low are we going to set the bar for Palm?
  12. gbp
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    #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Speaking strictly for myself, I have been embarrassed when I use the Pre around friends (especially my many iPhone-worshipping ones) to answer a phone call and one of those issues crops up causing me to miss the call or have to say hello multiple times not knowing whether a call has been picked up or not (Yeah, I forgot the bug when you open the slider to answer a call, it doesn't pickup, but onscreen call answer/reject buttons go away anyway).

    I mean, overall system lag is part of the price you pay for multitasking, and I'm willing to give Palm time to get their resources together to actually use the GPU and stop wasting the potential of the hardware THEY DESIGNED (another embarrassment, but on a smaller scale, I guess).

    But having to repeatedly explain to my wife why I didn't answer her call the first time around or hoping that answering an incoming call goes smoothly when I'm in public.....that stuff is embarrassing.
    I donno what to say .,
    Many a time , my Pre is in sleep mode a call comes , the screen wakes up
    before I drag the thing out the screen goes blank.

    Then I press the POWER button to turn on the screen , the call gets rejected.

    YESS
    This is a problem. But other than that , the rest is okay.
  13. #213  
    Palm built up huge expectations around the Pre as the next highly successful mass market device that will beat all current smartphones including the one that should not be named in this forum.

    Pre is now being measured by that yardstick. For any device / service to be hugely successful in the consumer market, it has to be simple enough for your grandma to use.

    Does the Pre (and not only the device, but the whole ecosystem around it), meet that expectation ? You can answer that for yourself. I guess that answer makes some feel that Palm is embarrassing itself.
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Sort of. You have to buy extra software like Chapura and even then you still can't sync tasks or notes. The only way to get task syncing is with an MS Exchange account.
    You only have to buy extra software to do those things if you want it to do something it was not designed to do.

    It was not designed to sync with a desktop. That is not a flaw. It's a design decision, and it was deliberate. For most, it works very well. As a matter of fact, for me it was an improvement, since it's not a kludgy work around to sync to the cloud. I had gotten where I only synced my Treo to a PC once every few weeks. Now I don't even have to do that, and all of the informatiion is up to date on all of my PCs.
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's ADD to expect that I can scroll through a call log against a plain green background with tiny thumbnails for certain entries smoothly with no choppiness and no redrawing and gaps on a ARM Cortex A8-based OMAP 3-powered phone, which TI has claimed provides "laptop-type processing"? Really?

    Again, I ask...how low are we going to set the bar for Palm?
    Some would set the bar very low indeed. I would suggest setting the usability and perfomance bar based on either the iPhone's phone and contacts applications or perhaps Android's (whichever is faster).
  16. gbp
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    #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by montush View Post

    Pre is now being measured by that yardstick. For any device / service to be hugely successful in the consumer market, it has to be simple enough for your grandma to use.
    Well I might have to disagree with you on this one.
    Most grandmas have no clue what is an Youtube, facebook , tethering, copy paste, browsing , syncing email .

    Having said that
    Majority of grandmas ( note the qualifier Majority = 90%) love to have a phone that they can punch the numbers to talk , and a clicker to take photos.

    PALM did fine with the photo thing , but not with the dialer app.
  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    It was not designed to sync with a desktop. That is not a flaw. It's a design decision, and it was deliberate. For most, it works very well. As a matter of fact, for me it was an improvement, since it's not a kludgy work around to sync to the cloud. I had gotten where I only synced my Treo to a PC once every few weeks. Now I don't even have to do that, and all of the informatiion is up to date on all of my PCs.
    Your distinction between flaws and "design decisions" is itself flawed. It is possible for a design decision to be flawed. It is also possible for a device to sync to the "cloud" for some data and to a desktop for other data (Exhibit A, the Blackberry).
  18. gbp
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    #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Some would set the bar very low indeed. I would suggest setting the usability and perfomance bar based on either the iPhone's phone and contacts applications or perhaps Android's (whichever is faster).
    Agree,
    but without quantifying it , it will be perception.

    The lag should be reduced to "2" seconds.
    Browser render on 3G / EvDo should be "10" seconds for a graphics heavy site.
    Browser render on 3G/EvDo should be "5" seconds for a medium graphics site.


    .... the list goes on.

    Without this we cannot truly compare devices and determine one device is snappier than the other.

    It will save embarrassment for the manufacturer if they set quantifiable performance and implement them.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's ADD to expect that I can scroll through a call log against a plain green background with tiny thumbnails for certain entries smoothly with no choppiness and no redrawing and gaps on a ARM Cortex A8-based OMAP 3-powered phone, which TI has claimed provides "laptop-type processing"? Really?

    Again, I ask...how low are we going to set the bar for Palm?
    Here are the three issues I've had with the phone APP:

    1. It often ignores my speed dials, not sure why.
    2. The call log isn't very flexible, and I didn't notice until you brought it up, but yeah, it is pretty choppy when scrolling.
    3. Sometimes on the touchstone in my car it doesn't go into speakerphone mode when I get a call. Doesn't happen with the one at my desk for some reason.

    As far as lag in the rest of the app or not being able to answer calls in time, I just haven't experienced that at all. It works just fine as a phone, no better or worse than the BB it replaced.

    After acknowledging the deficiencies tho, the question (I think) then becomes exactly how big a deal these issues are to an individual. Are they something you report and then deal with, or are they deal-breakers? If they prevent you from answering calls or using the phone, I can understand that they just might be. Should the bar be set low with no expectation of obvious bugs getting fixed? Of course not.

    But the big issue I have is what do you do with it from there. It just seems to me that there are a lot of folks on here that are just so quick to freak out. Like somebody else said, many don't even check if there may be some other explanation, they just jump on the forum and start posting about how the phone is crap and Palm needs a labotomy.

    It's terrific and necessary to discuss the bad with the good, I just hate how it's done sometimes. The title of this thread is case in point.
  20. gbp
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    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post

    As far as lag in the rest of the app or not being able to answer calls in time, I just haven't experienced that at all. It works just fine as a phone, no better or worse than the BB it replaced.

    After acknowledging the deficiencies tho, the question (I think) then becomes exactly how big a deal these issues are to an individual. Are they something you report and then deal with, or are they deal-breakers? If they prevent you from answering calls or using the phone, I can understand that they just might be. Should the bar be set low with no expectation of obvious bugs getting fixed? Of course not.

    It's terrific and necessary to discuss the bad with the good, I just hate how it's done sometimes. The title of this thread is case in point.
    It is a big deal. I wish I could report PALM. Have no patience holding phone for an hour talking to the customer service.

    The day I miss an important call , PALM will get a mouthful from me.

    But your point is well taken, most folks rush to posting negative things , which happened because of their ignorance.

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