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  1.    #1  
    For the techies out there, for the benefit of the not-so-techies...

    Is there a laymans way to explain what makes THIS overclocking different from previous iterations, both in safety and the fact that it improves battery life?

    I appreciate that it does, I just am curious as to how.

    Thanks!
  2. GTMI1's Avatar
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    #2  
    I am not a Techie but here goes. This patch re-writes a part of the Kernel so that the CPU can run at the desired speed. In this case, 800mhz. As to battery life, it is better because it increases efficiency in running apps. Its like when you do performance upgrades to cars. They get better gas mileage if you don't run them flat out. This is true with the 800mhz. If you are using an app that requires more CPU processing, then the battery life will not be as good but the app will run better. As to safety, Palm doesn't recommend it. It may well shorten the life of your CPU and can cause overheating because it is working harder. If someone decides to use their Pre at 800mhz, be aware that you need to have something installed that will warn you of higher temperatures. (there is a patch for that)
  3. #3  
    The update did not modify the kernel...
    The kernel is what runs the system...

    If I were to get into detail then the non tech savvy people whole be lost.
    16 Candles, The Breakfast Club SB, Friday SB, App Catalog Fix, Palm Pre/Pixi - USB Modem, TMC Workaround, SCRIM Changing OTF

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  4.    #4  
    I would be good with some detailed tech info. I don't get lost that easily.

    About that temp warning patch... Where is it?

    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by demetry14 View Post
    The update did not modify the kernel...
    The kernel is what runs the system...

    If I were to get into detail then the non tech savvy people whole be lost.
  5. #5  
    I believe they customized the base linux kernel to add support for the higher speeds/voltage, then edited LunaSysMgr to set the higher speed
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

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  6. #6  
    and that is why i love my Pre!
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    I believe they customized the base linux kernel to add support for the higher speeds/voltage, then edited LunaSysMgr to set the higher speed
    Correct. You can set the CPU clock speed to pretty much anything by editing LunaSysMgr (as evidenced by the original 600 mhz LunaSysMgr) patch. However, 600 mhz was the maximum allowable clock speed as set by the linux kernel. Thus, they needed to edit the kernel to allow for higher speeds and voltage as mentioned, and then simply apply a patch to LunaSysMgr to set the 720 or 800 mhz. And yes, in theory it is possible to go higher than 800 mhz, but evidence seems to suggest that beyond 800 mhz, speeds gains are minimal as the bottlenecks are no longer at the CPU level. Hope that helps.
  8.    #8  
    Very Cool! But why is this path to overclocking safe(r)? Overclocking, for years, has been the thing only the bravest and most fool-hardy technocrats were willing to try. Whenever the subject came up, someone would always warn against it.

    With this one, it seems that there are more happy, successful overclockers, and the naysayers are a dying breed. What makes it different this time?

    By the way... I added the temperature warning patch, but can't find any controls for it. Are there any?
    Last edited by pelikan3; 04/04/2010 at 04:42 PM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Very Cool! But why is this path to overclocking safe(r)? Overclocking, for years, has been the thing only the bravest and most fool-hardy technocrats were willing to try. Whenever the subject came up, someone would always warn against it.

    With this one, it seems that there are more happy, successful overclockers, and the naysayers are a dying breed. What makes it different this time?

    By the way... I added the temperature warning patch, but can't find any controls for it. Are there any?
    EDIT: I was corrected in post 18 in this thread.
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ml#post2358766

    Old post:
    Quick and dirty answer....

    In the past, overclocking would ask the CPU to do things it was not intended to do. Like back in the day cranking a 386dx-25 up to an amazing 36MHz.

    The CPU in the Pre is able to run at 800MHz, but for what ever reason, the good people at Palm decided to have WebOS crank it down to 500MHz.

    So in essence, this is not really over clocking, it is just letting the chip run at it's spec'ed speeds.
    Last edited by noco37; 04/04/2010 at 07:35 PM. Reason: 'cause I was wrong!
  10.    #10  
    Cool! Thanks!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Very Cool! But why is this path to overclocking safe(r)? Overclocking, for years, has been the thing only the bravest and most fool-hardy technocrats were willing to try. Whenever the subject came up, someone would always warn against it.

    With this one, it seems that there are more happy, successful overclockers, and the naysayers are a dying breed. What makes it different this time?

    By the way... I added the temperature warning patch, but can't find any controls for it. Are there any?
    I wouldn't say only the bravest and most foolhardy technocrats are willing to try overclocking. Almost all high-performance motherboards from Abit, Asus etc include overclocking features right in the BIOS. For the most part, as long as the construction of the processor itself isn't sub-par, cooling becomes the only issue. You can find liquid nitrogen cooled Intel chips overclocked beyond 5 Ghz. People are also overclocking GPUs on a pretty routine basis as well. The rub with overclocking on smartphones and other embedded platforms is that the CPU is enclosed in a very tight space and overheating can become an issue, which is where most of the system instability can come from. However, when extensive testing has been conducted, as is the case with this patch, 800 mhz appears to be well-within the realm of heat safety for this particular processor. I would say the good majority of overclockers (myself included) are paying the $7/mo equipment protection on our Pres, so even if they do die, we can replace them. To me, the extra speed is worth the risk, be it perceived or real.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by caj2008 View Post
    The kernel patches have been optimized and carefully tested before deployment. We also have figured the reasons why there were issues in the past and with imposed safeguards on page of our thread, this should last a good while.
    This is also a very good reason why doing this on the Pre (or other phones) is a lot easier and safer than on a home computer. It can be tested on many different systems that are identical, unlike desktop overclocking where there are bound to be many different hardware variations between those trying to overclock.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Very Cool! But why is this path to overclocking safe(r)? Overclocking, for years, has been the thing only the bravest and most fool-hardy technocrats were willing to try. Whenever the subject came up, someone would always warn against it.

    With this one, it seems that there are more happy, successful overclockers, and the naysayers are a dying breed. What makes it different this time?
    I believe unixpsycho is the only one who's overclocked by editing LunaSysMgr. Earlier attempts at overclocked used other methods, which caused device instability. In addition, it seems underclocking really low also caused device instability. As for the 720/800 overclocks specifically, long terms testing is not possible at this point, so it's possible to see significantly shortened life, but so far there was only 1 alpha test case of disaster, which happened at 62*C overheating.



    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    By the way... I added the temperature warning patch, but can't find any controls for it. Are there any?
    Nope, it is simple background checking with warnings if temperature gets high
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    ...Earlier attempts at overclocked used other methods, which caused device instability. In addition, it seems underclocking really low also caused device instability...
    I've had no stability issues since 1.4 after adding /etc/event.d/cpu-scaling with the following:
    Code:
    # Enables cpu scaling
    
    start on stopped finish
    stop on runlevel [!2]
    
    console none
    
    script
            echo ondemand > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
            echo 600000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq
    #        echo 500000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq
            echo 20 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/up_threshold
            echo 1000000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/sampling_rate
    #        echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/powersave_bias
    end script
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  15. #15  
    I wanna see someone overheat to 100C just to see it happen. Lol

    anyone that has that,im willing to donate a few eggs for an omelet
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by noco37 View Post
    Quick and dirty answer....

    In the past, overclocking would ask the CPU to do things it was not intended to do. Like back in the day cranking a 386dx-25 up to an amazing 36MHz.

    The CPU in the Pre is able to run at 800MHz, but for what ever reason, the good people at Palm decided to have WebOS crank it down to 500MHz.

    So in essence, this is not really over clocking, it is just letting the chip run at it's spec'ed speeds.
    That is absolutely not the case.

    The OMAP 3430 in the Pre is a 600MHz spec device, and running such a device at 600MHz is referred to in the manufacturer's datasheets as "overdrive" and reduces the guaranteed operating life from 100K hours to 50K hours if you run it at 600MHz continuously, whereas running at 500MHz keeps the guaranteed operating life at the full 100K hours.

    OEMs can buy a high-speed grade 720MHz OMAP3430 device - Palm did not buy that device and it is not in the Pre.

    OEMs can buy a 800MHz OMAP 3440 device - Palm did not buy that device and it is not in the Pre.

    Now, individual chips coming off the manufacturing lines will meet or exceed those guaranteed manufacture spec limits. How much each individual chips exceed the limits can only be found by experimentation on your particular chip in your particular phone.

    Note that the Mars rovers were guaranteed for only 90 days of operation, but have now been operating for over 6 years ...

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 04/04/2010 at 07:05 PM.
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  17. #17  
    Thank you for the correction. I thought the OMAP 3430 was spec'd out to 800. I'll have to re do my homework!
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by noco37 View Post
    Thank you for the correction. I thought the OMAP 3430 was spec'd out to 800. I'll have to re do my homework!
    No worries - there's a lot of confusion about the facts of overclocking the Pre.

    -- Rod
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    No worries - there's a lot of confusion about the facts of overclocking the Pre.

    -- Rod
    I just thought I remembered my processors better than that. I'm glad someone came along to correct me, so i make sure not to spread bad info.
  20.    #20  
    can CPU scaling or smartreflex be run at the same time?
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