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  1. #161  
    I don't know why this thread is still alive, but could a mod please lock it? The Palm tech has already posted (2 or 3 times now) the proper place to send complaints to, which means that this thread is now even more useless than when it was first created.

    There has been no meaningful discussion at all, and at points it has dipped into nothing but name-calling and childish remarks.

    Thanks.
  2. vreihen's Avatar
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    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    All the Monday morning developers has "established" for us that this is an "easy" thing to do. You've established that Palm is looking for someone to do it. You've also established that you likely have the credentials (I don't - my expertise in the IT business is not as a developer). Go take the job, earn some money, and shut the whiners up for us.
    There's an article from Forbes that explains how Palm designed the Pre, and how everyone had pictures of Zen gardens at their desks to keep them focused. As a New Yorker, Palm doesn't have enough money to make me want to work in that kind of an environment! "Designed in and inspired by California," you know.

    How Palm Designed The Pre - Forbes.com

    Note to Palm project managers: try putting up pictures of microphones at everyone's desks and see what happens.....
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    There's an article from Forbes that explains how Palm designed the Pre, and how everyone had pictures of Zen gardens at their desks to keep them focused. As a New Yorker, Palm doesn't have enough money to make me want to work in that kind of an environment! "Designed in and inspired by California," you know.

    How Palm Designed The Pre - Forbes.com

    Note to Palm project managers: try putting up pictures of microphones at everyone's desks and see what happens.....
    Note to potential Palm purchasers - Purchasing the phone doesn't require you to do what they do in California. If it did, I wouldn't own one either.
  4. sweat's Avatar
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       #164  
    Yes, the Palm tech has posted a link to adding a suggestion and you know what, Palm has being ignoring calls to add voice-activated dialing. It's not like the suggestion has not been given to them, they just have refused to add it.

    Call it a lack of an API, a lack of resources, or whatever you want, but the fact remains that Palm continues to leave out a nearly universal feature that has been requested by Pre and Pixi users.

    The bigger picture really isn't just the voice-activated dialing, but the terrible product management team that Palm has had and continues to have in place. If you want this to be the subject of another thread, fine, but the simple fact is that webOS sales are missing forecasts because Palm phones are not being favored by customers - and that is a product management problem. Blaming the ad agency and blaming Verizon is just an excuse.

    If you don't like seeing Palm being criticized, don't read the thread. But don't tell us not to complain or say we're being childish because we're calling Palm on their mistakes.
  5. #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    If you don't like seeing Palm being criticized, don't read the thread. But don't tell us not to complain or say we're being childish because we're calling Palm on their mistakes.
    I don't care that people criticize Palm or any other company. It's HOW people criticize that's annoying and childish. Saying that Palm is REFUSING to add voice-activated dialing or CHOOSING not to add it is disingenuous. We've been told that they are going to add it at some point. Why they haven't yet added it is purely conjecture.

    The fact is, that feature, while on many other phones and probably useful to many people, isn't absolutely necessary for any Pre user. If it was, that Pre user wouldn't be a Pre user. And while an extremely vocal minority keeps clamoring for it, the great majority of users doesn't seem to really care about the feature, so it's understandable that Palm hasn't put that at the top of its to-do list. Do I think they should add it? Of course. Do I think it should've been on the phone when it was released? Sure, in a perfect world. But it isn't a perfect world and, frankly, it's place on the totem pole of needed features is probably about right, strategically speaking.

    It would be interesting to know the percentage of smartphone users who actually care about the feature and whether it's exclusion has cost Palm very many sales. I would guess that poor advertising, timing, and build quality have been bigger problems than the lack of a voice dialing feature.
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by oddlou View Post
    I don't care that people criticize Palm or any other company. It's HOW people criticize that's annoying and childish. Saying that Palm is REFUSING to add voice-activated dialing or CHOOSING not to add it is disingenuous. We've been told that they are going to add it at some point. Why they haven't yet added it is purely conjecture.

    The fact is, that feature, while on many other phones and probably useful to many people, isn't absolutely necessary for any Pre user. If it was, that Pre user wouldn't be a Pre user. And while an extremely vocal minority keeps clamoring for it, the great majority of users doesn't seem to really care about the feature, so it's understandable that Palm hasn't put that at the top of its to-do list. Do I think they should add it? Of course. Do I think it should've been on the phone when it was released? Sure, in a perfect world. But it isn't a perfect world and, frankly, it's place on the totem pole of needed features is probably about right, strategically speaking.

    It would be interesting to know the percentage of smartphone users who actually care about the feature and whether it's exclusion has cost Palm very many sales. I would guess that poor advertising, timing, and build quality have been bigger problems than the lack of a voice dialing feature.
    So you aren't complaining about the content, just the delivery?

    The Pre/Palm cheer leaders annoy me too but you don't see me invading their thread and telling them to stop being positive.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    So you aren't complaining about the content, just the delivery?

    The Pre/Palm cheer leaders annoy me too but you don't see me invading their thread and telling them to stop being positive.
    It is all in the delivery! Saying, in essence, Palm is stupid because they don't have the feature I like, and you're stupid if you defend Palm for not having a feature I like, is poor argument. We can argue whether something is necessary or a poor choice by Palm- reasonable minds can differ. But when framed as it has been in this thread, the reason-based argument is lost and the thread devolves into "you're stupid because I'm right...no, you're stupid because I'm right."

    I'm not telling anyone to stop being negative. I'm just asking for well-reasoned argument, rather than blind bashing or blind defending.
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    ...
    If you don't like seeing Palm being criticized, don't read the thread. But don't tell us not to complain or say we're being childish because we're calling Palm on their mistakes.
    Actually, you completely misinterpret what you're being told (no big surprise there).

    You're not being called "childish" because you're complaining, you're being called childish in part because of the way you are complaining, and in part because of what you are complaining about.

    In spite of your constant pretestations, voice dialing is not universal, nor even "nearly" so. There are far far more dumbphones than there are smartphone. There are more dumbphones that don't have this feature than do.

    Even if it were universal - so what??? This phone doesn't have it. Rear car seats are nearly universal as well, but if I buy a sports car that doesn't have one, then complain about it being a two-seater, that's being childish.

    You've made up seveal excuse about why this is "needed", yet the consensus here seems to be that while many would like it, most don't care when it comes out. The minority are the ones screaming about it.

    You've made it appear to be a life and death issue, yet you openly state that you're not going to spend the $75 to ensure your safety and those around you - it would appear that it's only important if you get it free.

    Finally, you've been told by a Palm rep that they are working on it. That's not good enough for you, because, you wahh wahh wahh wahh wahh wahh want it now mommy.

    Guess what - complain all you want. YouAin'tGettingItNowBaby, and you're beginning to look downright foolish.
  9. #169  
    Voice Dial, no voice dial it doesn't make a differnece. If Palm is still around to implement it, many will have moved on to something else. Myself included.
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Voice Dial, no voice dial it doesn't make a differnece. If Palm is still around to implement it, many will have moved on to something else. Myself included.
    And others will have picked up the device, and will be glad to see it. That's the nature of these things, some folks move on, others move in. Believe it or not, the device continues to be used even after you've picked up something else.
  11. sweat's Avatar
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       #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    In spite of your constant pretestations, voice dialing is not universal, nor even "nearly" so. There are far far more dumbphones than there are smartphone. There are more dumbphones that don't have this feature than do.
    Go Sprint.com, do a count and come back with the results. If memory serves me correctly, I counted 21 dumb phones that had the feature and just 3 that didn't. Even if my count is off by one or two phones, your assessment is flat out wrong.

    If you're talking about phones that were sold previously, that is a moot point. A customer walking into a store is going to look at what is available today, not yesterday and certainly not one year ago. Palm needs to compete with what is being offered today.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Even if it were universal - so what??? This phone doesn't have it. Rear car seats are nearly universal as well, but if I buy a sports car that doesn't have one, then complain about it being a two-seater, that's being childish.
    If I bought a sports car, I would expect its features to be inline with its peers. Palm's peers have voice-activated dialing and better cameras. Not to mention many more apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You've made it appear to be a life and death issue, yet you openly state that you're not going to spend the $75 to ensure your safety and those around you - it would appear that it's only important if you get it free.

    Finally, you've been told by a Palm rep that they are working on it. That's not good enough for you, because, you wahh wahh wahh wahh wahh wahh want it now mommy.
    Let's see, more than 80% of phones sold by Sprint have voice-activated dialing, but you calling me out for not spending $75 on a device that I probably can't use while walking around. Yeah, that makes sense.

    As far as the Palm rep, it's not like we started asking for this last week. Pre users have been asking for voice-activated dialing since last June. After nine months, saying Palm is choosing not to add voice-activated dialing is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. (Beg to differ? Let's hear a date from Palm.)

    Take a look at reality, Palm is not selling enough phones. Stockpiles at retailers are too high and last quarter's conference call was lousy. Developers aren't flocking to webOS because there are too few users. Cancellations will start occurring in June.

    Do you really think Palm can afford any attrition right now? Wait, I'll tell you the answer - it's no. Palm is on the verge of going out of business. Without a buyer or an influx of cash from a group of investors, Palm will go out of business.

    Palm's only hope is start hitting home runs, now, and I'm not seeing that happen.

    Butler may have lost last night, but at least the Bulldogs gave it their all. That's more than anyone can say about Palm.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    Go Sprint.com, do a count and come back with the results. If memory serves me correctly, I counted 21 dumb phones that had the feature and just 3 that didn't. Even if my count is off by one or two phones, your assessment is flat out wrong.
    Only if Sprint.com represents all of the phones in existence. They don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    If you're talking about phones that were sold previously, that is a moot point. A customer walking into a store is going to look at what is available today, not yesterday and certainly not one year ago. Palm needs to compete with what is being offered today.
    You're still not getting it. They didn't have that feature, and you bought it anyway. A Pre owner is hardly the right person to be insisting that they can't sell the phone without that feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    If I bought a sports car, I would expect its features to be inline with its peers. Palm's peers have voice-activated dialing and better cameras. Not to mention many more apps.
    And yet, you bought the Pre....

    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    Let's see, more than 80% of phones sold by Sprint have voice-activated dialing, but you calling me out for not spending $75 on a device that I probably can't use while walking around. Yeah, that makes sense.
    I'm "calling you out" because you're insisting it's a "safety feature", yet you choose to not make yours safe. It doesn't matter what others offer, if you believe that not having the feature on the Pre is a safety issue, and you are still using the Pre, then you are choosing to be "unsafe", by your own assessment.

    Over $75.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    As far as the Palm rep, it's not like we started asking for this last week. Pre users have been asking for voice-activated dialing since last June. After nine months, saying Palm is choosing not to add voice-activated dialing is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. (Beg to differ? Let's hear a date from Palm.)
    Child, no one is going to give you a date, because they don't have a date. Bottom line is, because you want it now, and you're not getting what you want, then it must not be coming.


    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    Do you really think Palm can afford any attrition right now? Wait, I'll tell you the answer - it's no. Palm is on the verge of going out of business. Without a buyer or an influx of cash from a group of investors, Palm will go out of business.
    Really, well, dolts have been saying that for years. In your own words - "Let's hear a date"...
  13. sweat's Avatar
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       #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Only if Sprint.com represents all of the phones in existence. They don't.
    Go ahead and throw Verizon, T-Mobile and AT&T in the mix. I'm confident the numbers won't change much.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're still not getting it. They didn't have that feature, and you bought it anyway. A Pre owner is hardly the right person to be insisting that they can't sell the phone without that feature.
    The fact that I'm a Pre owner is not relevant. Read through Palm's last earnings report and the conference call notes. WebOS phone inventories are too high, by Palm's own admission. Why? Because sales are lousy.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Child, no one is going to give you a date, because they don't have a date. Bottom line is, because you want it now, and you're not getting what you want, then it must not be coming.
    They don't have a date because their product management team stinks. I'm not the only person to ask for this, most other phones have it, and yet Palm is doing nothing about it. Facts are facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Really, well, dolts have been saying that for years. In your own words - "Let's hear a date"...
    Palm would be out of business if not for an ill-advised investment by Elevation Partners. It is extremely doubtful EP will put in more money. The company is basically broke and sales stink. Not a good combination.
  14. sweat's Avatar
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       #174  
    BTW, I've never called you a child in response. Then again, I've got facts to back my arguments up and am objective about Palm as a company.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    BTW, I've never called you a child in response. Then again, I've got facts to back my arguments up and am objective about Palm as a company.
    Except the thread wasn't about "Palm as a company", it was about a specific feature that you claim they have chosen not to provide. You've been given a specific answer by an employee of Palm that it is on their "roadmap", but that they ran into other issues. That's not good enough for you,

    There has been nothing objective in your arguments in this thread. Unless Palm is doing exactly what you want, they are failing as a company seems to be the gist of your comments.

    Hardly "objective".
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    ...
    Palm would be out of business if not for an ill-advised investment by Elevation Partners. It is extremely doubtful EP will put in more money. The company is basically broke and sales stink. Not a good combination.
    Really? Extremely doubtful? And you base this assessment on....

    But that's a red-herring. It doesn't matter why they didn't go out of business. The fact is that each time some expert has predicted they are on their way out, they stayed in.

    So, I ask again, since you seem to "know" that no more money is forthcoming from investors, when are they going out of business?

    And if they are, why in the world would they want to spend any more of their meager $$ trying to make you happy?
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    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruba View Post
    I think only a small minority uses this feature. That's why it probably isn't high on the list and they didn't get around to it yet.

    +1
  18. #178  
    I don't understand a couple of ideas that have been floating around here:
    a) Why driving a car while dialing phone is not a good idea?
    b) If not a part of the decision making process at Palm, explaining the reasons for the Pre not having voice capable dialing.
    c) Even if the I am in the minority regarding voice dialing, isn't it a good idea to get me as a return customer.
    One last thought. I bought my Pre in late June and remember reading on this forum and others that this feature was coming. I used information in my decision making process and am disappointed that voice activated dialing is not available. I think that using voice activated dialing in conjunction with a bluetooth device or speakerphone while driving is safer. Just my 2 cents.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    I don't understand a couple of ideas that have been floating around here:
    a) Why driving a car while dialing phone is not a good idea?
    b) If not a part of the decision making process at Palm, explaining the reasons for the Pre not having voice capable dialing.
    c) Even if the I am in the minority regarding voice dialing, isn't it a good idea to get me as a return customer.
    One last thought. I bought my Pre in late June and remember reading on this forum and others that this feature was coming. I used information in my decision making process and am disappointed that voice activated dialing is not available. I think that using voice activated dialing in conjunction with a bluetooth device or speakerphone while driving is safer. Just my 2 cents.
    a) The theory is that anything that distracts you from what your primary function (when behind the wheel) is a bad thing. Holding a conversation, even if it's over a bluetooth headset without touching the device is a distraction. You are thinking about what you are talking about, instead of thinking about driving. Personally, I'm of the opinion that there are other factors that contribute to unsafe driving as well, including inattention due to boredom. Listening to the radio, and yes, even talking on the phone relieve that boredom. The difficulty lies in finding the "sweet spot" where you are not so involved in whatever is distracting you that it becomes dangerous.

    b) Absolutely the reason we don't currently have voice activated dialing is because someone at Palm (likely a group of "someones") decided there were other features that needed to be taken care of first. However, the gist of the OP is that Palm has decided they're not interested (apparently, unless they provide a date for him); which many of use felt was not the case. We felt that they were just working on other things first. This has been confirmed by an employee from Palm.

    c) I'm sure Palm would love to keep you as a repeat customer; however, if you are in the minority, wouldn't you agree that it would be more important to keep that majority as repeat customers? That's the crux of the matter. Palm can only do so many things at one time, and there is little doubt that creating an API for microphone recording capabilities that "plays well" with WebOS and the other Apps running is a major project.

    I don't remember reading anywhere that it was definitely coming, and I've been on here a long time. That said, someone might have said so; however, at 10 months past release date, "coming" is still in the realm of things. Now a Palm representative has confirmed that it's "coming". I have no reason to believe it isn't.
  20. sweat's Avatar
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       #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    a) Why driving a car while dialing phone is not a good idea?
    Let's leave the driving part out and instead discuss why walking with your eyes focused on a touch screen is not a good idea. Ever see a news story about texting and accidents? There are too many to count.

    Rodgiddens, I'm with you. Many of us thought last June that Palm rushed this phone out and that voice-activated dialing would be added by now. That was the conventional wisdom on this board.

    I think the big issue is Palm's lousy product development. Within the past few months, Palm has said Verizon reps aren't promoting the phones, acknowledged that it shipped too many phones and fired its ad agency. All these comeback to one single problem - lousy product management.

    I am not saying that voice-activated dialing is the root cause of Palm's problems, but it is representative of the bigger problem - Palm is not competing feature-for-feature against iPhone or Android.

    Oh wait, I'm being childish pointing out reality. So sorry to toss some cold water at the Palm lovers on this board.

    Folks, many of us generally like our Pre's. It's the lack of key features and update screw-ups that has us fed up. And because we fully realize that Palm is just a corporation, we have no love for it and are willing to call out its many faults.

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