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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    I think the point is that if the phone can do hands-free calling in the first place, then people are going to use it in the car. It's pretty obvious that fumbling around and dialing on the phone is a lot less safe than dialing by voice
    Lots of things that seem "pretty obvious" turn out not to be true when examined carefully.

    All the studies I've seen have not shown hands free system to be significantly safer.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitalis View Post
    I don't understand why people aren't focusing on the bigger picture.. Why has it taken Palm so long to release API access to the Microphone?

    If Palm doesn't want to provide a voice dialing feature, then at least provide API access so that a developer can make one.

    Also, if you don't want voice access, then don't use it, but at least Palm can do to alleviate this issue, is give devs access to that damn API already... What's the hold up?
    I think some of you don't understand exactly what an API is. They don't just "exist". Someone has to "create them" (in this case, that someone is Palm). This is not something that's already "out there", and all Palm has to do is "release it".

    The API would become a standard method for microphone access. Keep in mind, this isn't a dumb phone, there are other applications running. The API, if/when it is released, will have to be able to run without (significantly) interfering with any of the other apps that are running. Keeping in mind that sound is one of the most CPU intensive functions on the Pre right now, I'd say this is not going to be a small task.

    It's also worth noting, such functions are much simpler on the more simple devices, that don't have to "concern" themselves with other running programs.

    I don't doubt for a second that it can be done, or even that it will be done; however, it's not the simple "just do it" task that some of you armchair developers are trying to make it out to be.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Your screen name isn't exactly Mike Carnes.

    If you want some evidence to my assertion that even Palm doesn't have access to the microphone API, I direct your attention to this March 11, 2010 job posting at Palm:
    ...
    If Palm was hiring a programmer less than a month ago to develop media APIs and specifically looking for someone with Linux/PulseAudio experience, then I rest my case that there is no current API available for either Palm or third-party developers.....
    Your original post didn't assert that they don't have access to the API, it asserted they don't have access to the microphone. I've been in this industry for coming up close to 30 years now, but you don't have to even be semi-literate to know they can't write a phone applications without access to the microphone.
    But that wasn't even where my snark was directed. What evidence do you have that they "I still to this day believe that Palm bought the Pre hardware from some other company"?
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Hyperbole. Look it up.
    Oh yes indeed, I recognized it for what it was. Good to see that you're owning up to exaggerating. Now, if folks could just stick to facts...
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think some of you don't understand exactly what an API is. They don't just "exist". Someone has to "create them" (in this case, that someone is Palm). This is not something that's already "out there", and all Palm has to do is "release it".

    The API would become a standard method for microphone access. Keep in mind, this isn't a dumb phone, there are other applications running. The API, if/when it is released, will have to be able to run without (significantly) interfering with any of the other apps that are running. Keeping in mind that sound is one of the most CPU intensive functions on the Pre right now, I'd say this is not going to be a small task.

    It's also worth noting, such functions are much simpler on the more simple devices, that don't have to "concern" themselves with other running programs.

    I don't doubt for a second that it can be done, or even that it will be done; however, it's not the simple "just do it" task that some of you armchair developers are trying to make it out to be.
    Didn't Android provide API mic access in the very first iteration of their SDK as evidenced by Shazam being a launch day app available for the G1? Are they not ALSO running a multi-tasking OS?
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Didn't Android provide API mic access in the very first iteration of their SDK as evidenced by Shazam being a launch day app available for the G1? Are they not ALSO running a multi-tasking OS?
    At the risk of being flamed, I think we can all agree that WebOS was probably released at an unfinished level and that Palm had to push it out when it did.

    That said, they worked on features they considered essential to the operation of the phone first. On top of that, they had to address dire issues like the TMC error which I'm sure ******** forward development quite a bit, hence trying to alleviate it by doubling the RAM in the Plus models.

    So it's quite feasible that something like the mic API was put on the back burner to deal with what was already on their plate instead of potentially throwing another bag of wrenches into the machine.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Didn't Android provide API mic access in the very first iteration of their SDK as evidenced by Shazam being a launch day app available for the G1? Are they not ALSO running a multi-tasking OS?
    Absolutely, and that's a very good example. Much of the API capabilities "borrowed" from other platforms can't be "dropped" into place on the Pre because WebOS adds another layer to the complexity issue. Whether WebOS is/was a good idea is a moot issue at this point, it is what it is, and the fact is that developing such an API is a much bigger job for the Pre than for Android because of WebOS. Also, Palm's resources are much more limited than Google's.

    Finally, it's very clear that the goal of the SDK for WebOS was far different than that for Android.
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    I suspect that the video recorder app cheated, and went directly to the hardware or the lowest level of the software to bypass the lack of an existing microphone API. Hence, there *still* is no provided API.
    Oh, and before hparsons asks me to back up the above assertion, may I present the result of the video recorder app cheating because there is no audio API for it to use:

    http://forums.precentral.net/general...-together.html

    But what the heck do I know about writing device drivers and managing hardware/software development projects.....
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Lots of things that seem "pretty obvious" turn out not to be true when examined carefully.

    All the studies I've seen have not shown hands free system to be significantly safer.
    True, but as said a couple of times here, its the law in more and more states.
  10. #130  
    With my TS dash-mounted and bluetooth synced with the car audio, voice dialing would be a big advantage while on the road. Can't wait to see this implemented.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Oh, and before hparsons asks me to back up the above assertion, may I present the result of the video recorder app cheating because there is no audio API for it to use:

    http://forums.precentral.net/general...-together.html

    But what the heck do I know about writing device drivers and managing hardware/software development projects.....
    Again, your assertion wasn't that there is no API (to that, I would agree - as a matter of fact, most of my comments on here have been that there is no API), your assertion was that Palm has no access to the microphone, other than through the phone.

    I ask again, on what do you base that assertion?

    Being able to "cheat" and access the hardware for their own in-house video recording application would seem to verify that they do indeed have access to the microphone...

    BTW, not using an API is hardly "cheating". For years, it was the way a programmer worked. It does make much more sense to develop an API, essentially a documented library of routines, for everyone to use, which provides consistency.

    It's that very need for consistency that makes providing such an API a much bigger job than just "giving access".
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    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Lots of things that seem "pretty obvious" turn out not to be true when examined carefully.

    All the studies I've seen have not shown hands free system to be significantly safer.
    I'm not talking about hands-free being safer. I'm talking about the act of dialing while driving. Are you really telling me that it is not significantly safer to voice dial while driving than to dial using the phone?
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    I'm not talking about hands-free being safer. I'm talking about the act of dialing while driving. Are you really telling me that it is not significantly safer to voice dial while driving than to dial using the phone?
    Don't bother, they're going to say you shouldn't be dialing/talking while driving and if you wanted to be safe and not potentially kill yourself you should have gone with a different phone.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    Don't bother, they're going to say you shouldn't be dialing/talking while driving and if you wanted to be safe and not potentially kill yourself you should have gone with a different phone.
    I find it funny that you think that "being safer by NOT dialing/talking" is worth an "eye-roll" for you.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by phidalgo View Post
    I have voice dialing built into my car where I would actually have the need for it because of the law here in CT.

    Sucks to be you guys, I suppose?
    Me too, works great with the Pre. You guys just need to upgrade your cars!!

    Sprint Pre- Meta-Doctor 2.1.0 w/Flash

    Everything is Amazing & Nobody is Happy, "People with their mobile phones, "uh... oh... it won't..."... GIVE IT A SECOND... IT'S GOING TO SPACE!" Louis C.K.
  16. #136  
    Maybe instead of saying they choose not to add it... it just comes down to an issue that they can't do it. creating the api in programming terms is nothing. but one thing to record audio... another to be able to do it effectively.

    maybe that once it captures the audio, the time it takes to process would be unacceptable. maybe that's why the mic api is not released... people are dying to have shazam for pre and you'd think palm would gladly give them the api... but maybe its just not doable.

    you run shazam and tag the song and records about 10 seconds, maybe it takes 30 seconds for it to process... and by the time it comes back its a minute! that would be painful.
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Your original post didn't assert that they don't have access to the API, it asserted they don't have access to the microphone. I've been in this industry for coming up close to 30 years now, but you don't have to even be semi-literate to know they can't write a phone applications without access to the microphone.
    I invite you to re-read my words from post #11:

    http://forums.precentral.net/2357802-post11.html

    Has anyone ever put one and one together, and come to the conclusion that there is no voice dial because even PALM doesn't have access to the microphone (outside of the phone program) through any SDK routine?
    I asserted that they do not have access to the microphone through any SDK routine, outside of the phone program that apparently has direct access to the microphone. Judging by the new discovery that the audio system gets shut down whenever the camera app is opened, my assertion in another post that the video recorder goes directly to the hardware for microphone access sounds pretty plausible as well.

    Almost 30 years in the industry? What was I doing 30 years ago, in 1980? Oh yeah, I remember...writing my own BIOS so that I could run CP/M on that silly collection of S-100 boards that were all over the dining room table. The silly kids these days think that building a computer is as simple as buying a motherboard and power supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    But that wasn't even where my snark was directed. What evidence do you have that they "I still to this day believe that Palm bought the Pre hardware from some other company"?
    Although there is enough evidence out there to confirm that the Pre was designed completely in-house, it just seems like Palm doesn't have a full grasp of their architecture at times. It is almost as if it came from somebody else, and they are trying to figure out the platform just like we are. Maybe they had significant employee turnover among their original WebOS programmers?????
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    I invite you to re-read my words from post #11:

    http://forums.precentral.net/2357802-post11.html

    I asserted that they do not have access to the microphone through any SDK routine, outside of the phone program that apparently has direct access to the microphone.
    I stand corrected - partially. I overlooked the SDK portion, and focused on "outside the phone program". You left out the third option - that they do have their own internal routines that do not use the phone program.

    The video program, as just one example, has access to the microphone, and is not using the phone application.

    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    ...
    Although there is enough evidence out there to confirm that the Pre was designed completely in-house, it just seems like Palm doesn't have a full grasp of their architecture at times. It is almost as if it came from somebody else, and they are trying to figure out the platform just like we are. Maybe they had significant employee turnover among their original WebOS programmers?????
    Please reconcile these two statements for me:
    Although there is enough evidence out there to confirm that the Pre was designed completely in-house,
    and
    I still to this day believe that Palm bought the Pre hardware from some other company
    If you readily acknowledge that you came to a conculsion that differs from the evidence, and then couple that with the "has anyone put one and one together" (which really only leaves one viable conclusion), you'll understand the reason for my response.

    All the Monday morning developers has "established" for us that this is an "easy" thing to do. You've established that Palm is looking for someone to do it. You've also established that you likely have the credentials (I don't - my expertise in the IT business is not as a developer). Go take the job, earn some money, and shut the whiners up for us.
  19. #139  
    i'm thinking the ex apple guys had a great idea for a card based gui and a flashy fresh front end and thought they can use a linux based os as their platform and get away with doing everything with software and create web-based apps like apple had originally intended... ajax and javascript... no need to have gpu access, etc.

    by the time they came out, even apple had to give in to the demand on native supported apps and what came of it where apps that you probably never would have thought possible... like shazam that sounds so simple to use the mic.

    by that time, they are stuck with running out of money and need to sell a phone and work from there.

    just a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Although there is enough evidence out there to confirm that the Pre was designed completely in-house, it just seems like Palm doesn't have a full grasp of their architecture at times. It is almost as if it came from somebody else, and they are trying to figure out the platform just like we are. Maybe they had significant employee turnover among their original WebOS programmers?????
  20. #140  
    I just wish everyone would stop the palm is a little company line. You don't get extra points for being a little company. they let microsoft and rim take the smartphone market from them. they sold their OS to Access and had to start from scratch. Yet they created the best OS out there imho. let them own their wins and defeats without excuses. palm was the smartphone king don't forget that. hopefully the old dog still has some card tricks left.
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