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  1. sweat's Avatar
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       #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post

    I don't remember reading anywhere that it was definitely coming, and I've been on here a long time. That said, someone might have said so; however, at 10 months past release date, "coming" is still in the realm of things. Now a Palm representative has confirmed that it's "coming". I have no reason to believe it isn't.
    On Palm's message board, they state "The feature is not currently available on any webOS device. We can not state as to if / when such feature would be implemented"

    That's not a confirmation that it is coming.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    On Palm's message board, they state "The feature is not currently available on any webOS device. We can not state as to if / when such feature would be implemented"

    That's not a confirmation that it is coming.
    Excellent. That's it the communication you got there. However, you chose to bring the conversation here, and here you got confirmatioin. You just choose to not believe it.

    You've steadily slid this from a comment about a specific feature (that you claim is not coming) and turned it into a general rant about all of the things Palm isn't giving you, and how they are destined to fail. This probably should have been under the "general complaints" all along. Now I'm beginning to believe it's time to pull this one from the "childish I want it now" rant category to "just another troll" category.
  3. sweat's Avatar
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       #183  
    hparsons - Show me the post where it says specifically that it's coming and proof that the person who wrote works in product development and actually has both authority and proof to say that its coming.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    hparsons - Show me the post where it says specifically that it's coming and proof that the person who wrote works in product development and actually has both authority and proof to say that its coming.
    Nah, I think I'll pass. Instead, I'll go talk to the wall for a little while, it will respond more intelligently, and with more authority;

    However, I will agree to do so, if you will agree to this.

    Show me a post, a hint, a clue, a "here's what we're thinking" from anyone at Palm that says "Palm is choosing not to add voice activated dialing". That was the lie you presented on this forum.
  5. #185  
    Interesting how this all devolved into a ****ing match between hparsons and sweat...FOOD FIGHT??!!!
  6. sweat's Avatar
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       #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Nah, I think I'll pass. Instead, I'll go talk to the wall for a little while, it will respond more intelligently, and with more authority;
    All I'm asking for is the actual statement and proof that the person saying it is a credible representative of Palm. You claim that a rep with knowledge said voice-activated dialing was definitely coming. I went back through the thread and did not find any such statement. If I overlooked it, fine, show it to me. But also provide proof that the person saying has the authority and knowledge for it to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Show me a post, a hint, a clue, a "here's what we're thinking" from anyone at Palm that says "Palm is choosing not to add voice activated dialing". That was the lie you presented on this forum.
    To date, the feature is not available on webOS. Therefore, Palm has chosen not to add it. Palm has had a choice along to include it or not; so far they haven't. There is no lie by me, just a simple statement of the facts.
    Last edited by sweat; 04/07/2010 at 10:14 AM.
  7. #187  
    my cat's breath smells like cat food
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    ...
    To date, the feature is not available on webOS. Therefore, Palm has chosen not to add it. Palm has had a choice along to include it or not; so far they haven't. There is no lie by me, just a simple statement of the facts.
    I'm sorry, it's either a lie, or you have no understanding of how a process works. The "Palm has chosen not to add it" clearly implies that they've made a conscious choice not to provide the feature. The precludes the possibility that they have chosen to add it, but have simply not completed the process yet.

    Your "demands" that I prove something are laughable. You've made a statement about what Palm has "chosen" to do, without providing a comment from anyone who even pretends to be an employee or representative of Palm that backs up your claim that they've made such a choice.

    Palm likely will not say "this is coming", because there will be those that are like you, that will demand to know "when". And then if they provide a possible date that is not met for some reason, then suffer the repercussions of that "promise".

    Read the quote below, though I suspect it is pointless, because you have obviously chosen to come on here and cry about what you can't have, rather than listen and read. I've bolded the pertinent parts to help you out:

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    I try to avoid these types of threads since I really can't provide any information as to if/when a feature or bug is going to be implemented / fixed. I can't state why it wasn't done in the beginning or what importance it has to get implemented.

    But there is one thing I can say and that is to just give us some time. Now I know that you are thinking well you have had nearly a year to put things in place and have all this stuff by now, but the fact of the matter is we have had a year, but sorry.

    Maybe if there wasn't as many bug fixes that needed to be done it would be done by now, maybe if things have gone a little more right instead of left it would be done, but unfortunately not.

    Every company when they get ready to launch something new and different the first thing they do is put out a roadmap that states where you want to go and how long it should take for you to get there, now I can't share that with you. I can't even tell you if we are on pace or off, but the point of telling you this is that there are things that we expect to fall in place and as the pieces start fitting together we can complete it.

    It's like a puzzle, we already have the outer edge done (that's the easy part) now we are working on the big middle piece, and sometimes when you run into the big cloud section where everything is blue, it takes you some time to get it done.

    Be patience with us and I believe you will be satisfied with the end result.
    This is about as close as one get get as far as specifics go, without actually coming out and promising. He's not going to promise. I suspect it's because people like you have taught them a lesson well.

    As I stated, this is probably pointless. I doubt you came on here to learn anything about what may or may not be coming, but instead started this thread to cry about what you want.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    a) The theory is that anything that distracts you from what your primary function (when behind the wheel) is a bad thing. Holding a conversation, even if it's over a bluetooth headset without touching the device is a distraction. You are thinking about what you are talking about, instead of thinking about driving. Personally, I'm of the opinion that there are other factors that contribute to unsafe driving as well, including inattention due to boredom. Listening to the radio, and yes, even talking on the phone relieve that boredom. The difficulty lies in finding the "sweet spot" where you are not so involved in whatever is distracting you that it becomes dangerous.

    b) Absolutely the reason we don't currently have voice activated dialing is because someone at Palm (likely a group of "someones") decided there were other features that needed to be taken care of first. However, the gist of the OP is that Palm has decided they're not interested (apparently, unless they provide a date for him); which many of use felt was not the case. We felt that they were just working on other things first. This has been confirmed by an employee from Palm.

    c) I'm sure Palm would love to keep you as a repeat customer; however, if you are in the minority, wouldn't you agree that it would be more important to keep that majority as repeat customers? That's the crux of the matter. Palm can only do so many things at one time, and there is little doubt that creating an API for microphone recording capabilities that "plays well" with WebOS and the other Apps running is a major project.

    I don't remember reading anywhere that it was definitely coming, and I've been on here a long time. That said, someone might have said so; however, at 10 months past release date, "coming" is still in the realm of things. Now a Palm representative has confirmed that it's "coming". I have no reason to believe it isn't.
    There is a big difference between listening to the radio and dialing a phone while driving. That said, the question remains unanswered by you.

    Regarding point b. It was rhetorical.

    Point c. Do you think that this is mutually exclusive? Bringing voice activated dialing to the Pre would so alienate those who don't care about it to the point to where they wouldn't repeat as customers. I believe that by bringing the feature would be a "Win - Win" situation for Palm.

    Point d. It's easy enough to check. But that information was only part of my decision. It however, is now 10 months later and I for one, am not satisfied with the delay.

    Finally, I'm interested in knowing if you think that voice activated dialing is good or bad?
  10. sweat's Avatar
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       #190  
    hparsons, you specifically said that "confirmation" was given that the feature was coming and now you are backtracking. Instead of backing up your claims, you provided your interpretation of what a Palm rep said, which is far different than providing proof that a rep said it is coming.

    As far as the use of the word "choice"; Palm had a choice. It could have built an OS that incorporated the feature at the start. It could have included the feature with any of the past updates. It has not done either. There was a decision made by the company not to include it. That is a choice that was made.

    Even if they are working on it, then they made the choice to release the last update prior to having voice-activated dialing finished.

    Spin the words as much as you like, just understand that we're seeing right through the smoke.

    VickMackey - give your cat a mint.
    Last edited by sweat; 04/07/2010 at 11:13 AM.
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    There is a big difference between listening to the radio and dialing a phone while driving. That said, the question remains unanswered by you.
    Agreed there is a difference; however, I did answer the question. It was the first line of my response:
    The theory is that anything that distracts you from what your primary function (when behind the wheel) is a bad thing. (FWIW, I don't agree completely with the theory).

    Regarding point b. It was rhetorical.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    Point c. Do you think that this is mutually exclusive? Bringing voice activated dialing to the Pre would so alienate those who don't care about it to the point to where they wouldn't repeat as customers. I believe that by bringing the feature would be a "Win - Win" situation for Palm.
    At this point, yes, I believe that they are mutually exclusive. Palm is a small company, with limited resources. In spite of how many folks on here have talked about how "easy" this would be to implement, no one on here has shown that it's "easy" (and sorry, anecdotal information that others have done it isn't showing - no other smartphone has Palm's level of multi-tasking and a voice recorder.) From the response on here from a Palm rep, it's pretty clear that this is something they want to do. If they want to do it, and haven't yet, the logical conclusion is that either it's not possible, or they have other things they feel they have to do first.


    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    Point d. It's easy enough to check. But that information was only part of my decision. It however, is now 10 months later and I for one, am not satisfied with the delay.
    Understood. So, what is one to do about it? There are only a few options, if you want to look at it logically:
    • Buy a device that gives you voice-activated dialing on the Pre. I've not used it, but others on here indicate that there are BT devices that will give you that for around $75
    • Buy a different phone. If there are number of things you are dissatisified with on the Pre, and feel you'd be happier overall with another device, this is an option. If you like the Pre except for this function, it seems to be it would be cheaper to buy the $75 device mentioned above.
    • Wait for the capabilities to come out on the Pre. If you like the device, and can continue to wait, this is still a viable option. In spite of the title of the thread, no one has shown anywhere that Palm has decided that they are not going to add this feature. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear to anyone that looks at the comments in this thread, by a Palm employee, that it's on their roadmap, and they plan on implementing it. I'm also going to step out and say, there have been a lot of things already implemented on the Pre, in less than 10 months after it, that nay-sayers said couldn't/wouldn't happen
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by rodgiddens View Post
    Finally, I'm interested in knowing if you think that voice activated dialing is good or bad?
    I can't imagine anyone thinking it's a bad thing. I can imagine some folks thinking it's not very important. I kind of fall between the two. I want it. However, I don't want to be bothered with a system that doesn't work. Because I've been a Palm OS user for years, and they've never offered this as a feature in a Palm OS device, my experience has been limited. I went through several third party packages for my Treo before I got one that worked. The one that I finally settled on was on in which you had to "train" the program to recognize your commands. I had to get a little creative, it didn't seem to "hear" the difference between "call Gini" (my wife) and "call Kristie" (one of my daughters), but getting creative got past that ("call Gini" became "call my wife", problem solved).

    As far as "importance" goes, the feature was imporant enough to me that I spent about about $300 getting it to work on my motorcycle. At the same time, I wouldn't spend a dime to get it to work in my car, because I have lots of other ways to make calls when in my car.

    At this point, it's not important enough for me to change phones. At least not yet. That may change now that summer's coming, and I'm on the wing more. We'll just have to see.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    hparsons, you specifically said that "confirmation" was given that the feature was coming and now you are backtracking. Instead, backing up your claims, you provided your interpretation of what a Palm rep said, which is far different than providing proof that a rep said it is coming.
    You need to look up the word "confirmation" and compare it to "proof". I've never claimed proof about anything in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    As far as the use of the word "choice"; Palm had a choice. It could have built an OS that incorporated the feature at the start. It could have included the feature with any of the past updates. It has not done either. There was a decision made by the company not to include it. That is a choice that was made.
    While the first part is true, the second part is not. The OS also did not include a video recorder. However, that does not indicate that Palm made a decision not to provide a video recorder - since they later released such an app.


    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    Even if they are working on it, then they made the choice to release the last update prior to having voice-activated dialing finished.
    See, we can agree on something. They chose not release it in the last update. See if you can tell the difference in these two statements:
    • Palm has not yet added voice activated dialing
    • Palm is choosing not to add voice-activated dialing



    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    Spin the words as much as you like, just understand that we're seeing right through the smoke.

    VickMackey - give your cat a mint.
    So now I have to ask the point of this entire thread. Was it to point out the obvious - that the Pre doesn't currently have voice-activated dialing?

    Do you really think others couldn't look at their device and see that?

    No, I think it's pretty clear. It was either a rant, or a plea for information. Since you've chosen to completely ignore the information given, the purpose becomes pretty clear.
  13. sweat's Avatar
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       #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You need to look up the word "confirmation" and compare it to "proof". I've never claimed proof about anything in this thread.
    The Palm rep didn't confirm anything other than that Palm has plans for future changes. Therefore, he neither confirmed, provided proof, guaranteed, implied, indicated or suggested that voice-activated dialing would be added.

    If you're going to boil this down to a game of syntactics rather providing facts to argue your point (e.g. you never responded with any proof to counter my count that most phones sold now have voice-activated dialing), then it is truly a silly argument. (And yes, I realize some may say we crossed that line a while ago.)

    Nonetheless, as a customer, I have a right to call out Palm on features that I believe should be on the phone by now. This being a Pre form and having a likelihood (notice I said likelihood not certainty) that someone from Palm is paying attention, it is the proper forum.

    If you think Palm can do no wrong, fine, that's your opinion. Just don't stoop to calling people childish because you disagree.

    I think Palm has done a lot of wrong and, as evidenced by the sales and market share numbers, a lot of people don't think Palm is doing enough things right.
  14. #194  
    The Palm rep on this thread clearly stated Be patience with us and I believe you will be satisfied with the end result. in direct response to your query/rant about this specific feature. That would only be "insufficient" for someone with an ax to grind.

    Syntactics relates to the use of signs and symbols in language, I think the word you're looking for is "semantics". Probably Palm's fault for not having a better spell check for you...

    The top selling phone for last year (which sold over 200 million units) didn't have voice dialing. I stopped looking at that point. It pretty much proved my point to my satisfaction. I didn't provide it because, I daresay, nothing will prove it to yours.

    You absolutely have the "right" to rant and rave about something that you knew was missing when you bought the device. But please recognize, others also have the "right" to call it what it is. This is a "forum".

    I have stated several times on this thread that this is a feature I want. I don't know quite how you interpret that as thinking "Palm can do no wrong". Please do not mis-state my "opinion" for me (back to the "childish" thing, it's nonsense like that that inspires the observation).

    I agree a lot of people don't think Palm is doing enough things right. However, most that look at it objectively will agree they are doing much more right now than they were before the Pre.
    Last edited by hparsons; 04/07/2010 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Ha, I noticed I mis-spelled semantics, doh!
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Agreed there is a difference; however, I did answer the question. It was the first line of my response:
    The theory is that anything that distracts you from what your primary function (when behind the wheel) is a bad thing. (FWIW, I don't agree completely with the theory).

    Regarding point b. It was rhetorical.


    At this point, yes, I believe that they are mutually exclusive. Palm is a small company, with limited resources. In spite of how many folks on here have talked about how "easy" this would be to implement, no one on here has shown that it's "easy" (and sorry, anecdotal information that others have done it isn't showing - no other smartphone has Palm's level of multi-tasking and a voice recorder.) From the response on here from a Palm rep, it's pretty clear that this is something they want to do. If they want to do it, and haven't yet, the logical conclusion is that either it's not possible, or they have other things they feel they have to do first.



    Understood. So, what is one to do about it? There are only a few options, if you want to look at it logically:
    • Buy a device that gives you voice-activated dialing on the Pre. I've not used it, but others on here indicate that there are BT devices that will give you that for around $75
    • Buy a different phone. If there are number of things you are dissatisified with on the Pre, and feel you'd be happier overall with another device, this is an option. If you like the Pre except for this function, it seems to be it would be cheaper to buy the $75 device mentioned above.
    • Wait for the capabilities to come out on the Pre. If you like the device, and can continue to wait, this is still a viable option. In spite of the title of the thread, no one has shown anywhere that Palm has decided that they are not going to add this feature. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear to anyone that looks at the comments in this thread, by a Palm employee, that it's on their roadmap, and they plan on implementing it. I'm also going to step out and say, there have been a lot of things already implemented on the Pre, in less than 10 months after it, that nay-sayers said couldn't/wouldn't happen
    .


    I can't imagine anyone thinking it's a bad thing. I can imagine some folks thinking it's not very important. I kind of fall between the two. I want it. However, I don't want to be bothered with a system that doesn't work. Because I've been a Palm OS user for years, and they've never offered this as a feature in a Palm OS device, my experience has been limited. I went through several third party packages for my Treo before I got one that worked. The one that I finally settled on was on in which you had to "train" the program to recognize your commands. I had to get a little creative, it didn't seem to "hear" the difference between "call Gini" (my wife) and "call Kristie" (one of my daughters), but getting creative got past that ("call Gini" became "call my wife", problem solved).

    As far as "importance" goes, the feature was imporant enough to me that I spent about about $300 getting it to work on my motorcycle. At the same time, I wouldn't spend a dime to get it to work in my car, because I have lots of other ways to make calls when in my car.

    At this point, it's not important enough for me to change phones. At least not yet. That may change now that summer's coming, and I'm on the wing more. We'll just have to see.
    I understand what remedies are available to me. I further understand, that the technology has evolved to the point where you don't need to train it for it to do a good job of speech recognition and the execution of commands. What is frustrating to me is, I own 2 bluetooth devices, one in my car and one in my wife's. Unfortunately in order to use the voice dialing function of my bluetooth device, the phone needs to be voice dialing capable. So when I'm riding with my wife and her Instinct is paired with the bluetooth device, she just needs to activate it by pressing a button, and it asks her who she wishes to call. I can't do that because of my phone's inability to carry out a voice command. I can answer an incoming call rather easily using the bluetooth device, but placing a call requires me dialing. Speed dial and other programs ease the pain, but painful it still is.

    Overall, I like my Pre but I would like it more if it had voice activated dialing and better battery life. And while I think the WebOS is wonderful, I'm also a realist who understands that Palm along with others are vying for my business. So I'm pretty sure that by renewal time in June someone will have a device for me. As the end user, I'm not interested in Palm's financial position or what the reason is for the delay in implementing updates and features. I am only interested in a device that operates at a high level. And personally speaking, I think Palm missed the boat with this one because among other things, it took an enormous amount of time to set up my phone after an update.

    One last thought, remember that these smartphones, I like to call them personal computing devices, evolved from cellphones that were installed in cars. Shouldn't there had been a stronger emphasis on hands free operation?

    I'm just saying.
  16. #196  
    At the outset, either Palm chose to deliberately mislead people into buying the Pre without voice dial or the Palm rep was a complete incompetent. In early June of last year I had an extended conversation in store with a Palm rep before purchasing the Pre. I specifically asked when voice activated dialing would be included in the feature set of the phone. His reply was within the week. That was the the deciding factor for my purchase. So yeah, some of us find voice dial important. Some of us even find it incredible that the phone that was to be the leading technological innovation in smart devices in 2009 wouldn't have something as basic as voice dial. After spending hundreds of dollars for what I thought was going to be a device to increase my productivity I should have looked a little closer at the alternatives. My mistake and lesson learned. Don't purchase you phone based on promises from Palm.
    John
  17. sweat's Avatar
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       #197  
    hparsons, in the end, the reason why many of us leave forums like this is that we tire of arguing with people who are so pro a certain company/cause/belief that they walk around with blinders on. You are quick to launch personal attacks in defense of a corporation - an entity that could care less if you live or die - yet doing so doesn't get you anything but perhaps the satisfaction of confirming to yourself that your beliefs must be correct because other person grew tired of making their point.

    Regardless of how many iPhones Apple sold previously, the current model has voice-activated dialing and that is what Pre is competing against. That's not an opinion, it is a fact.

    As far as the Palm rep, he never once said voice-activated dialing was coming. Your opinion is that Palm is planning on adding it; who knows if that is the case or not.

    I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you, because it's obvious that you have no intention of dropping your Palm pom-poms anytime soon. I will make this last point, however. I've helped developed several very profitable products and product enhancements over the years. Every time, the planning session has started off with a white board of discussion of what features are found on the majority of competitors and every time, we made sure those features were incorporated into the product. And we always quickly changed the product to match any evolution by our competitors. That's much more than I can say for Palm.
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    #198  
    i do a lot of travelling for my job, and used the voice all the time. That was a big deal when i got the Pre. I have been working around it, but it would be nice to have it back. Safer road travelling with it.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by sweat View Post
    hparsons, in the end, the reason why many of us leave forums like this is that we tire of arguing with people who are so pro a certain company/cause/belief that they walk around with blinders on. You are quick to launch personal attacks in defense of a corporation - an entity that could care less if you live or die - yet doing so doesn't get you anything but perhaps the satisfaction of confirming to yourself that your beliefs must be correct because other person grew tired of making their point.

    Regardless of how many iPhones Apple sold previously, the current model has voice-activated dialing and that is what Pre is competing against. That's not an opinion, it is a fact.

    As far as the Palm rep, he never once said voice-activated dialing was coming. Your opinion is that Palm is planning on adding it; who knows if that is the case or not.

    I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you, because it's obvious that you have no intention of dropping your Palm pom-poms anytime soon. I will make this last point, however. I've helped developed several very profitable products and product enhancements over the years. Every time, the planning session has started off with a white board of discussion of what features are found on the majority of competitors and every time, we made sure those features were incorporated into the product. And we always quickly changed the product to match any evolution by our competitors. That's much more than I can say for Palm.
    And see, it's the idiocy of statements like "dropping your Palm pom-poms" that attract the derision that folks like you so richly deserve. I've stated a number of times that this is a feature I want, and it might possibly be a feature that gets me to another device. I have nothing against those that have already reached that point.

    Bottom line, you were not seeking any information. The information that was offered, you ignored and minimized. As far as the use of the forum, there already existed a thread for complaints. You chose to ignore that thread, and start your own, which by your admission, was nothing more than a complaint.

    You jump in the game, don't complain when the "other side" plays along.

    I'll match your "final point" with one of my own. I submit you have absolutely no idea what Palm is planning behind the scenes, and what changes they are planning in their development of the Pre. That's the whole point of this thread. You're pretending you know, but you've offered nothing up to show what they're going to do, and have ignored information that counters your opinion.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by sonjohn1 View Post
    At the outset, either Palm chose to deliberately mislead people into buying the Pre without voice dial or the Palm rep was a complete incompetent. In early June of last year I had an extended conversation in store with a Palm rep before purchasing the Pre. I specifically asked when voice activated dialing would be included in the feature set of the phone. His reply was within the week. That was the the deciding factor for my purchase. So yeah, some of us find voice dial important. Some of us even find it incredible that the phone that was to be the leading technological innovation in smart devices in 2009 wouldn't have something as basic as voice dial. After spending hundreds of dollars for what I thought was going to be a device to increase my productivity I should have looked a little closer at the alternatives. My mistake and lesson learned. Don't purchase you phone based on promises from Palm.
    John
    I'm a little lost on this one though. I wasn't there, so I can't say what a Palm rep might or might not have told you; but I have to wonder - why, after the week came and went, did you not take the Pre back? You had 30 days.

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